It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892

Go Back   est1892 > Football > General Football

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-19, 10:57 AM   #2201
Phoenix07
The Normal One
 
Phoenix07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,363
Quote:
Juventus' Italian teenage forward Moise Kean suffered racist abuse from the stands during Tuesday's Serie A match at Cagliari.

The 19-year-old held his arms aloft after scoring Juve's second in the 2-0 win, seemingly in response to chants, and was subjected to further abuse.

Afterwards he wrote on Instagram: "The best way to respond to racism."

Boss Massimiliano Allegri and defender Leonardo Bonucci said Kean should take some of the blame for his celebration.

"He shouldn't have celebrated in that manner," said Allegri. "He is a young man and he has to learn, but certain things from the crowd also shouldn't be heard."

Italy international Bonucci - who scored the opening goal - told Sky Sport Italia: "You celebrate goals with your team-mates. He could have done it differently.

"I think the blame is 50-50. Moise should not have done that and the Curva [fans] should not have reacted in that way."

However, in his post-match interview Allegri called the fans directing abuse at Kean "idiots who do stupid things and ruin it for everyone else" and said the authorities "don't really want to" tackle the problem.

"You need great intelligence to deal with these situations and should not go to provoke people. That, of course, does not mean the idiots in the crowd and the way they reacted should be justified," he said.

"I don't think talking about it all the time helps. I don't think halting play helps, because not everyone in the stadium did that.

"We need to use the cameras, find those who are doing it and punish them. It's very simple, identify them and not one-year ban or two, just give them a lifetime ban.

"We've got the technology, it can be done if the authorities want to. The problem is, they don't really want to."

Kean's Juventus team-mate Blaise Matuidi protested to the referee after the abuse and threatened to walk off.

Matuidi complained in 2018 he suffered racist abuse at the same stadium on the island of Sardinia.

The France midfielder later posted a photograph of himself and Kean, who has Ivorian parents, on Instagram with the caption: "BIANCO + NERI (white and black) #NoToRacism."

After Kean scored in the 85th minute, play was stopped for about three minutes and a warning was broadcast to the crowd - the first step in the three-step procedure which ultimately leads to the teams being led off the field.

Cagliari captain Luca Ceppitelli went over to the home fans behind the goal, appealing for the chants to stop,

The home side's president, Tommaso Giulini, blamed Kean, who has scored two goals in three games for Italy, for his celebration.

"I heard mostly boos, if they started making animal noises then we were in the wrong," he said. "What happened at the end was because of a celebration which was wrong and it would have happened with any other player."

Earlier on Tuesday, Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin asked referees to be "brave" and stop matches if there was abuse from "loud, aggressive and primitive" people.

Manchester City winger Raheem Sterling celebrated in a similar manner to Kean after scoring for England in a 5-1 win over Montenegro in Podgorica last month, during which racist chanting was directed at several England players.

Sterling, who celebrated by putting his hands to his ears in a gesture, later called on football's authorities to take "a proper stance" and crack down on the racist abuse.

"It was one of those where it was to let them know, you are going to need to tell me more than that we are black and what we resemble to affect us," added Sterling.

He was supported by manager Gareth Southgate, who condemned the abuse of Sterling and his England team-mates.

Serie A leaders Juventus are now 18 points clear of second-placed Napoli and need just 10 points for an eighth straight Serie A title.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47793676
Phoenix07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-19, 11:21 AM   #2202
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
If that’s true translation of what they said then Allegri and Bonnucci are a fucking disgrace.
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-19, 12:09 PM   #2203
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzo View Post
He is.

It is great that he acknowledges where his background (Middle aged and white) when responding.

I think there is a new breed of sports manager emerging. More honest and aware of their position and responsibility within society.

I'm reading 'Natives: Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire' by Akala right now it is a fascinating insight into the origins and makeup of racism within the UK.


Excellent book that is as educational as it is eye opening. Akala is a very articulate and insightful author and speaker.

You should check out Kill The Black One First by Michael Fuller for another take on the make up of racism and class divides in the UK from the POV of the author's time as a black policeman working in London, or if you want to read similar about the US then try White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide by Carol Anderson
__________________
Defcon! Tractor beams! Gamma ray gun
Straight out the mothership! Weaponized Funk
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-19, 12:17 PM   #2204
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Excellent book that is as educational as it is eye opening. Akala is a very articulate and insightful author and speaker.

You should check out Kill The Black One First by Michael Fuller for another take on the make up of racism and class divides in the UK from the POV of the author's time as a black policeman working in London, or if you want to read similar about the US then try White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide by Carol Anderson


Re: Akala. It is a unique perspective he offers and he makes some heavy points very succinctly. The entire notion of Britishness. Hopefully his mind is representative of the ones we will have in positions of power in the future.

Will check the ones you recommend out. Think I have 3 books on the go at the moment so making slow progress.
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-19, 02:16 PM   #2205
Bender
Bite my shiny metal ass!
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,950
To Simplify things racist and racism will always always unfortunately exist.... been through it myself in the 70’s .. And fast forward nearly 50 years and it still exists ..Nothing has really changed....Education,media and peoples upbringings key areas.
Bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-19, 07:32 PM   #2206
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 27,524
How did you deal with it at Uni in the 70s mate?
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-19, 07:31 PM   #2207
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 38,330
https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/...buse-1-9698951

Quote:
Padiham FC fined for walking off the pitch in stand against alleged racist abuse

Padiham FC have been fined 165 for taking their players off the pitch after their goalkeeper, Tony Aghayere, was allegedly racially abused in a fixture last year while their opponents were fined just 160, prompting Storks' Chairman, Shaun Astin, to ask "where is the justice?"

Padiham FC's North West Counties Football League fixture away at Congleton Town last October had to be called off after Aghayere, a former Burnley FC youth player, was allegedly subjected to racist abuse while his side were 3-0 down, prompting the side's manager, Liam Smith, to remove his players from the pitch.

Following the incident, both clubs attended a hearing at which Padiham FC were officially fined for abandoning the match, while their opponents - who condemned any alleged racial abuse at the time and reported the matter to Cheshire Police - were fined 5 less than Padiham for the actions of their supporters.

"We decided to take our players off in a game because our goalkeeper was being racially abused," Tweeted Shaun Astin, Padiham FC's chairman earlier today. "We were fined 165; the offending club were fined 160. Where is the justice there?"

The issue comes off the back of England internationals Danny Rose, Raheem Sterling, and Callum Hudson-Odoi being subjected to racist abuse whilst playing in a 5-1 win over Montenegro in Podgorica as part of Euro 2020 qualifying last month. The English Football Association condemned the abuse, calling it "abhorrent" and "unacceptable at any level of the game."

During the match against Congleton, a number of the Padiham players' wallets "were emptied in the changing rooms" following a security breach, with a Congleton spokesperson at the time saying: "The club have reported an incident of alleged racial abuse and theft to Cheshire Police. The club takes this matter very seriously and is committed to working with the league on this matter."

The Lancashire FA have been in contact to state that they will be releasing a comment on the matter in due course.
Not sending a good message out there.

I assume that the local FAs are independent of the national FA? Or can the national FA over rule this if they want to? I assume that the Lancashire FA will make a statement attempting to justify this, not sure on what basis though.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

Last edited by Exiled_red; 09-04-19 at 07:33 PM.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-19, 03:10 AM   #2208
vlahka
Still sulking...
 
vlahka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,116
All they need to do is install more microphones around, more cameras just for the crowds, and whoever is suspected of racial abusing will be looked at and then fined/charged for it. Would stop people being idiots.
vlahka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-19, 06:41 PM   #2209
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 126,342
Look at the emoji

__________________
I was playing doctors and nurses with my female cousin. I was about 6 or 7, and we were inserting little toy stuffs in our bum holes. Does it count as snogging?
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-19, 06:45 PM   #2210
Tee
El Pistolero
 
Tee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,760
Fucks sake, are they for real with that shit?

* seems the idiot Moise has the gorilla emoji as his icon on his Twitter....
__________________
"Its not about the long ball or the short ball, its about the right ball." Bob Paisley

Last edited by Tee; 04-06-19 at 06:47 PM.
Tee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-19, 06:52 PM   #2211
Phoenix07
The Normal One
 
Phoenix07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,363
Yeah, it's on his Instagram page as well.
Phoenix07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 08:40 AM   #2212
Pablo
Anti-Antipodeanite
 
Pablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 22,983
Yeah a quick scan of the comments shows it's an emoji he uses himself (not sure why?!).

Still I would have thought they'd best swerve using it themselves given the racist abuse he's already suffered!
Pablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 09:03 AM   #2213
Shaggy
Dressed up as Batman?
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 126,342
Aaaaaaaaah. Didn't know that. Still don't think it's particularly advisable on Juve's part, nor his tbh.
__________________
I was playing doctors and nurses with my female cousin. I was about 6 or 7, and we were inserting little toy stuffs in our bum holes. Does it count as snogging?
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 09:16 AM   #2214
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
It’s definitely not.

He has been living with racism for his entire life.

Given what he has experienced and the history of racism within his country to know that he self identifies as a gorilla (or has been told that it is ok) is troubling
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 10:17 AM   #2215
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 47,247
It's entirely up to him.
__________________
Mentality Giants
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 01:50 PM   #2216
foresterbloke
Run the Jewels
 
foresterbloke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,500
Perhaps Godzilla would be more fitting?

It would be ill advised for one of us to use such iconography but he's free to do what the fuck he likes right?
__________________
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
foresterbloke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 05:12 PM   #2217
Red_Polo
Takin' Her Easy
 
Red_Polo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,301
Read some reference to him being styled as "King Kong Kean". So a gorilla emoticon and a nickname that initials as KKK. Send up or what?
Red_Polo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 05:36 PM   #2218
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
It's entirely up to him.
Ffs. You are relentless in opposition to my POV

I disagree. Clearly it would be interesting to know why that is the particular animal he has chosen, but it doesn’t really come across as a ‘fuck you’. There are obviously more than passing racial undertones to in a country rife with racism. Maybe it doesn’t affect him - but that is not to say the reference will be passed on to other black Italians and used less ‘sportingly’.

He is openly taunted by supporters making monkey noises at him. Normalising the link just reinforces the behaviour. I don’t see this as a successful retort or stand.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.a...184523633.html

Last edited by Buzzo; 05-06-19 at 05:38 PM.
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 06:04 PM   #2219
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 47,247
I don't think he's taking a stand or being a role model, and he shouldn't have to just because he's a minority in a racist country. He can do what he likes and pick his own avatar.

I try to relentlessly oppose everyone's point of view so give me a break, it's not easy to pull off.
__________________
Mentality Giants
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 06:06 PM   #2220
Red_Polo
Takin' Her Easy
 
Red_Polo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
I try to relentlessly oppose everyone's point of view so give me a break, it's not easy to pull off.
Red_Polo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 06:44 PM   #2221
dom9
Ant Pisser
 
dom9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 62,534
In a country with open and overt racism on the terraces, I don't think embracing the stereotype is the best idea, even if the intention is to ultimately reclaim it as his own.
__________________
Oh I don't know.
dom9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 06:46 PM   #2222
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,437
Whilst I see as it could be inappropriate, no one has said anything with the flame emotion and Ronaldo. No reference of Ronaldo's physical features to being a flame.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 07:00 PM   #2223
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
I try to relentlessly oppose everyone's point of view so give me a break, it's not easy to pull off.
I suppose I am preemptively goading you with a differing POV

Hes a young lad so its a lot to take on. But I dont think this is the way to do it, particularly when you bare in mind his own teammates thought hed crossed a line on defending himself against racist abuse.

I am sure the my all think it is acceptable that he utilises a gorilla stereotype.
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 07:11 PM   #2224
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 47,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom9 View Post
In a country with open and overt racism on the terraces, I don't think embracing the stereotype is the best idea, even if the intention is to ultimately reclaim it as his own.
I don't know, but is that the motivation? Or does he just like being compared to a big strong animal? I'm not comfortable about the idea that he has to take a stand or has a responsibility to counter racist stereotypes solely because he's black. Maybe he feels that, maybe he doesn't but it's surely his business.
__________________
Mentality Giants
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 07:15 PM   #2225
dom9
Ant Pisser
 
dom9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 62,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
I don't know, but is that the motivation? Or does he just like being compared to a big strong animal? I'm not comfortable about the idea that he has to take a stand or has a responsibility to counter racist stereotypes solely because he's black. Maybe he feels that, maybe he doesn't but it's surely his business.
I have no idea what his motivation is.

And I agree, he has no obligation to take a stand on any issue.

I'm just putting this in the wider, and also quite specific context of Italian football - stating that *I don't think it is a very good idea*.

But yeah, it's completely up to him obvs.

As for Juve, if I was running their social media team, there is no fucking way I'd go anywhere near that emoji in this context, regardless of what he has on his own profile.
__________________
Oh I don't know.
dom9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 07:16 PM   #2226
Red_Polo
Takin' Her Easy
 
Red_Polo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom9 View Post
I have no idea what his motivation is.

And I agree, he has no obligation to take a stand on any issue.

I'm just putting this in the wider, and also quite specific context of Italian football - stating that *I don't think it is a very good idea*.

But yeah, it's completely up to him obvs.

As for Juve, if I was running their social media team, there is no fucking way I'd go anywhere near that emoji in this context, regardless of what he has on his own profile.
Agree
Red_Polo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-19, 07:22 PM   #2227
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 33,037
Im suspicious, there are lots of other strong and powerful animals that don’t make the noise people goad you with in their 1000’s. Also, the time he did try and take a stand against racism he was effectively told to wind his knock back in by Bonucci and others and that he brought some of it on himself.

Quote:
Bonucci said Kean "could have done it differently" and "the blame is 50-50".
Any young black sportsman in Italy deserves a lot of support and appears to be getting none.
Buzzo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > Football > General Football

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.