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Old 24-02-21, 02:24 PM   #1481
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Originally Posted by Paul12 View Post
Rotten luck with injuries
Loss of form
Fierce competition

But also (a) a more intense programme of games means our style is not sustainable and (b) some players (Neco, Kostas and Taki) have not come through in the way we hoped (so the squad is not as thick as we thought it was).

In my view, we need to play as many of our players in their best positions, accept that means we will have weaknesses elsewhere and just try to outgun teams.

Numerically our squad is pretty deep. The problem is that a chunk of our next in line back ups are horribly injuryprone.

Chamberlain, Matip, Keita, Shaqiri and even Milner a little now.

Even just take Chamberlain, Matip and Keita. If we had those three fully fit and available from when VVD and Gomez were out, we then would have had Matip in one of the CB slots beside probably Fabinho, and had Keita to go into the midfield with Chamberlain ready to rotate in and out along with Jones to give starting midfielders a rest from time to time.

Henderson could have stayed in the centre and done the number 6 role.

Would have been less chopping and changing and more stability.

Injuries to key players are bad enough, but when pretty much all the best of first choice back ups are perma crocks it gives us a season like this one.

As much as people say that a lot of our starters are starting to age as a unit, and that a phasing in of new talent is needed, what this season has shown is that reliable back up is maybe a more concern.
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Old 24-02-21, 02:52 PM   #1482
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I want to see these sorts of formation looked at over the next few weeks.

————————-AB—————————
TAA———NP—————-BD———-—AR
—————Fab————GW—-—————
DJ———————NK————————SM
————————MS—————————-


————————-AB—————————
TAA———NP—————FAB———-—AR
————————GW-—————————
DJ————NK————AOC—-———SM
————————MS—————————-



————————-AB—————————
TAA———NP—————-BD———-—AR
—————Fab————GW—-—————
DJ———————NK————————SM
————————MS—————————-


————————-AB—————————
—————NP——FAB———-BD———-
TAS——————————-—————AR
——————NK———GW——————-
————————AOC—————————
————————-DJ—————————
————————-MS—————————
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Old 24-02-21, 02:58 PM   #1483
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No Kabak in any of them?
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Old 24-02-21, 03:00 PM   #1484
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No Kabak in any of them?
Yeah I forgot about him, but mainly I was just throwing around formations and thinking of players that could slot in, so they are interchangeable. Pop
Him in for NP or BD Thiago also.

I just want to see something different.
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Old 24-02-21, 03:20 PM   #1485
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Numerically our squad is pretty deep. The problem is that a chunk of our next in line back ups are horribly injuryprone.

Chamberlain, Matip, Keita, Shaqiri and even Milner a little now.

Even just take Chamberlain, Matip and Keita. If we had those three fully fit and available from when VVD and Gomez were out, we then would have had Matip in one of the CB slots beside probably Fabinho, and had Keita to go into the midfield with Chamberlain ready to rotate in and out along with Jones to give starting midfielders a rest from time to time.

Henderson could have stayed in the centre and done the number 6 role.

Would have been less chopping and changing and more stability.

Injuries to key players are bad enough, but when pretty much all the best of first choice back ups are perma crocks it gives us a season like this one.

As much as people say that a lot of our starters are starting to age as a unit, and that a phasing in of new talent is needed, what this season has shown is that reliable back up is maybe a more concern.
Completely agree with this but on the flip side history tells us that Gomez, Keita, Ox, Matip & Shaq are very injury prone and cannot be relied upon over a full season. Surely Klopp and the backroom staff knew this?

But I do agree if these were match fit and sharp we would be lagging as much. Unfortunately we are never going to be able to rely fully upon any of these players & they should be moved on if they are not providing value for money.
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Old 24-02-21, 04:47 PM   #1486
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Completely agree with this but on the flip side history tells us that Gomez, Keita, Ox, Matip & Shaq are very injury prone and cannot be relied upon over a full season. Surely Klopp and the backroom staff knew this?

But I do agree if these were match fit and sharp we would be lagging as much. Unfortunately we are never going to be able to rely fully upon any of these players & they should be moved on if they are not providing value for money.

To be fair four of the five you named are those I said were the injury prone back up brigade.

I do think that we are finding ourselves in a position where we are getting close to a lot of our first teamers aging as a unit plus needing an overhaul of the back up options.


For me I would be looking at enhancing as many back up options as we can this season and getting in players with a history of durability/lack of injuries.

Of course that is easier said that done as some of our injury prone players were never quite as injury prone before they joined us.
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Old 25-02-21, 07:51 AM   #1487
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To be fair four of the five you named are those I said were the injury prone back up brigade.

I do think that we are finding ourselves in a position where we are getting close to a lot of our first teamers aging as a unit plus needing an overhaul of the back up options.


For me I would be looking at enhancing as many back up options as we can this season and getting in players with a history of durability/lack of injuries.

Of course that is easier said that done as some of our injury prone players were never quite as injury prone before they joined us.
so true, I suppose it all stems from getting Dr Harold Shipman onto the medical team. Been nothing but bad news since the fella arrived.

But yeah I agree with everything you're saying, enough with these injury prone lads. The are a waste of a wage and are providing zero value for money. What's the point in having a 'strong bench' when the lads on the bench are injured all the time. Pointless.
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Old 05-03-21, 12:46 AM   #1488
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Just too one dimensional and no variations to our approach play.
A 3 man midfield when we are full strength is just about enough but when we are playing replacements for the replacements in defence, the midfield is so easily bypassed too.
Our brilliant front three have papered over the cracks for a couple of years but now its all starting to peel off.
How long will klopp persist in the same formation and high line but without the personnel to be more able to implement the pressing game.
The tv analysis and other teams scouts have now blown our secrets, teams come better prepared than before yet we still blindly go repeating the same mistakes.
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Old 07-03-21, 11:44 PM   #1489
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We'll be back to our best soon. Bar scoring, we aren't doing too many things wrong. Relax people.
This aged well
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Old 07-03-21, 11:59 PM   #1490
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If nothing else, today said to me that Fab should be in midfield whenever he is available to play.
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Old 08-03-21, 12:00 AM   #1491
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If nothing else, today said to me that Fab should be in midfield whenever he is available to play.
He'll be back starting at centre back soon enough.
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Old 08-03-21, 07:34 AM   #1492
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If nothing else, today said to me that Fab should be in midfield whenever he is available to play.
this, at all costs he should be in midfield. Whatever it takes to get that midfield and front line back firing. I fear though Klopp will put him straight back into the defence vs Leipzig.
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Old 08-03-21, 08:44 AM   #1493
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this, at all costs he should be in midfield. Whatever it takes to get that midfield and front line back firing. I fear though Klopp will put him straight back into the defence vs Leipzig.
Vs Leipzig I can understand as we have something to protect - he is still our best defender even though the midfield is so much worse without him. For league games where it doesnít matter then play him in midfield
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Old 08-03-21, 08:50 AM   #1494
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He'll be back starting at centre back soon enough.
How come?
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Old 08-03-21, 09:10 AM   #1495
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If anything today showed why we need FAB at CH; i desperately want him back in midfield but R Williams was awful yesterday; ball watching, out of position, losing his man.

Phillips covered for him so much & TBH Fulham are pony upfront, imagine what a decent forward would do against him.

Don't want to slate Rhys but until he has a VVD, Matip, Gomez talking him thru a game i don't think he can play in bigger games
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Old 08-03-21, 09:51 AM   #1496
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If anything today showed why we need FAB at CH; i desperately want him back in midfield but R Williams was awful yesterday; ball watching, out of position, losing his man.

Phillips covered for him so much & TBH Fulham are pony upfront, imagine what a decent forward would do against him.

Don't want to slate Rhys but until he has a VVD, Matip, Gomez talking him thru a game i don't think he can play in bigger games
To be fair though Williams is about 9th choice (VVD, Gomez, Matip, Kabak, Henderson, Fabinho, Phillips and Davies are all ahead of him). With all due respect to Williams a partnership of two from Phillips, Kabak and Davies should be better. Until we have tested those Fabinho should play in midfield IMO.
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Old 08-03-21, 10:44 AM   #1497
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Old 08-03-21, 02:05 PM   #1498
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A lot of our players are going through a crisis of confidence at the moment, especially at home. Our last few away games we've been not too far from our old selves, but at home, it's like night and day. We are taking too long on the ball and our play is predictable as we are taking the safer option.

It's a challenge for Klopp and the backroom staff in the sense that it seems to be all in the head at the moment, players not producing at home. It's not something that can be flicked like a switch and that we just get back.
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Old 08-03-21, 02:15 PM   #1499
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A lot of our players are going through a crisis of confidence at the moment, especially at home. Our last few away games we've been not too far from our old selves, but at home, it's like night and day. We are taking too long on the ball and our play is predictable as we are taking the safer option.

It's a challenge for Klopp and the backroom staff in the sense that it seems to be all in the head at the moment, players not producing at home. It's not something that can be flicked like a switch and that we just get back.
This 'safe style of play' is the red herring for me... players, as you say, are retracting into doing the safe thing thinking it will change their fortunes when actually all it's doing is making us easier to set up against.

The mental fatigue is why we're not 'at it' at all... can't seem to raise our motivations to the high press or intensity that we've seen before - and that's for a host of factors such as injuries, Covid, lack of fans, VAR, poor results, etc... and we're seeing a team that has almost forgotten how to win.

Klopp needs to sit them down and do a reset. What did he first say to them when he arrived, what did they stop doing and start doing. What did they do that was new. He needs to inspire and coach again, be challenging enough to provoke a personal and team reaction. A bit like Jose's 'siege mentality' but with more panache and a proper game plan.

Every player has said they'd run through a brick wall for him in the past... they wouldn't run for 45 minutes now... He needs to prod and poke the individuals to get a reaction.. a positive reaction... and to light the fire in the bellies again. We've seen them when they're riled up and they're almost unstoppable.. Jurgen needs to get them to think back to those early days and how they built momentum and results from that starting point...

We, as fans, have to believe again... frustrating as it is not being in the stadium with them.. but somehow they need to know it's Istanbul, we're three nil down against Milan and we're still singing....
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Old 08-03-21, 10:33 PM   #1500
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Intensity

I'm starting to worry that this is the final throws of Kloppball and that the team has burnt out. He desperately needed reinforcements to the squad which he didn't get and the result of that has been pretty catastrophic.

Did anything like this happen at Dortmund? I know there was a sudden and rapid drop off there but don't know there was a similar pattern with multiple player injuries.

Does a Klopp team have a limited lifespan, have we come to the end of ours?
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Old 08-03-21, 10:59 PM   #1501
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I feel burnt out as a supporter to be honest. We've achieved loads and that's good enough for me.
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Old 08-03-21, 11:09 PM   #1502
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We've achieved loads and that's good enough for me.
One League title and one Champions League trophy. Bob P would be turning in his grave.
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Old 08-03-21, 11:12 PM   #1503
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One League title and one Champions League trophy. Bob P would be turning in his grave.
Yeah but I'm not really bothered about more to be honest. I've felt the high and now I can move on.
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Old 09-03-21, 08:06 AM   #1504
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Intensity

I'm starting to worry that this is the final throws of Kloppball and that the team has burnt out. He desperately needed reinforcements to the squad which he didn't get and the result of that has been pretty catastrophic.

Did anything like this happen at Dortmund? I know there was a sudden and rapid drop off there but don't know there was a similar pattern with multiple player injuries.

Does a Klopp team have a limited lifespan, have we come to the end of ours?
There was a similar situation in his last year at Dortmund where they were close to relegation just after Christmas and they had a lot of muscle injuries. He mutually agreed to leave the role at the end of that season and they rallied to finish in the Europa spots where we knocked them out with that famous 4-3 win at Anfield.

The chairman of Dortmund has said many times that he regrets that Klopp went - he said players come and go but great coaches are so rare, he wished they gave him a 1 year sabbatical. Dortmund had other challenges as well - Bayern stealing their best players year in year (Goetze, Hummels, Lewa) and not replacing them well Immobile being the prime example yet he scored tonnes of goals in Italy afterwards.

For us it is similar but different - our main injuries were impact so just bad luck, the overplaying of others as a result caused muscle injuries. Factor in Covid, VAR decisions, personal tragedies and no fans and we had a much worse run of luck. I genuinely believe that a summer break (even a shortened one), a couple of new players + others coming back from injury and weíll be flying next year again. A lot will depend on who city replace Aguero with
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Old 09-03-21, 08:13 AM   #1505
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City get Haaland obviously

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Old 09-03-21, 08:53 AM   #1506
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City get Haaland obviously

Thatís the big worry
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Old 09-03-21, 10:38 AM   #1507
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City get Haaland obviously

We have broke them before,we can again
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Old 09-03-21, 10:56 AM   #1508
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Without European football we've got a really good chance next season, or we play the ressies if we make it in to the Europa
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Old 09-03-21, 03:17 PM   #1509
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Perhaps we've given up on top 4, and playing in one of the lesser European cups is "whatevs", hence the wholesale changes in the league team...all our eggs into winning the CL, and if not, a year without the distractions of europe to run away with the League again
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Old 09-03-21, 08:58 PM   #1510
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The best team I'm Europe doesn't always win the Champions league for all sorts of reasons but you'd have to say it is very unlikely on recent form that we will win it. Putting all our eggs in that particular basket is a very long shot

YNWA
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Old 09-03-21, 09:30 PM   #1511
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but you'd have to say it is very unlikely on recent form that we will win it.
Frankly, on recent form we'd struggle to even get out of the changing room.
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Old 09-03-21, 09:57 PM   #1512
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Frankly, on recent form we'd struggle to even get out of the changing room.
I am sure we could but we would get a couple of injuries on the way out.
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Old 09-03-21, 11:54 PM   #1513
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The best team I'm Europe doesn't always win the Champions league for all sorts of reasons but you'd have to say it is very unlikely on recent form that we will win it. Putting all our eggs in that particular basket is a very long shot

YNWA

But may still be less of a long shot than trying to get back into the CL through league placings this season.
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Old 10-03-21, 06:33 AM   #1514
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Yes, based on recent form itís very unlikely that we will win it. But if we play to our capacity, we have as good a chance as anyone. Right now, itís just about staying in it- Iím not as confident about the Leipzig game as I should be, having won the away leg 2-0- if they score first, I will be very anxious.

But, once we get over the line, and get ourselves in the quarter final draw, weíll have a chance to go on and win number 7! Thereís gonna be 1/2 handy enough draws- Porto for example. If we can get a bit of luck in the draw, Iíll start to get optimistic... I fancy our form to be back, in time for the semi finals!

If fuckin Djimi Traore can win a champions league in Istanbul, then Iím sure our current team can too- anythingís possible! Allez Allez Allez!!
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Old 10-03-21, 07:48 AM   #1515
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Yes, based on recent form itís very unlikely that we will win it. But if we play to our capacity, we have as good a chance as anyone. Right now, itís just about staying in it- Iím not as confident about the Leipzig game as I should be, having won the away leg 2-0- if they score first, I will be very anxious.

But, once we get over the line, and get ourselves in the quarter final draw, weíll have a chance to go on and win number 7! Thereís gonna be 1/2 handy enough draws- Porto for example. If we can get a bit of luck in the draw, Iíll start to get optimistic... I fancy our form to be back, in time for the semi finals!

If fuckin Djimi Traore can win a champions league in Istanbul, then Iím sure our current team can too- anythingís possible! Allez Allez Allez!!
Iím the same but low blocks have been our kryptonite and RBL will play open and go for it. This should suit us much more and leave space up front for us to exploit
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Old 10-03-21, 09:12 AM   #1516
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The best team I'm Europe doesn't always win the Champions league for all sorts of reasons but you'd have to say it is very unlikely on recent form that we will win it. Putting all our eggs in that particular basket is a very long shot

YNWA
But we only have one egg. And there's only one basket available. The other option is to give it to a fox to carry it for us.
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Old 10-03-21, 09:52 AM   #1517
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But we only have one egg. And there's only one basket available. The other option is to give it to a fox to carry it for us.
I just think we can and should prioritise both. It would be hugely damaging to our image to end up in 10th or something. There are still 30 odd points up for grabs so you never know who might collapse. We also owe it to ourselves and our supporters to play to our optimum ability as current champions.

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Old 10-03-21, 10:21 AM   #1518
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I just think we can and should prioritise both. It would be hugely damaging to our image to end up in 10th or something. There are still 30 odd points up for grabs so you never know who might collapse. We also owe it to ourselves and our supporters to play to our optimum ability as current champions.

YNWA
Fair enough. My reply sounded more sarcastic than I intended. Our league form is so poor it doesn't seem to make much difference if we rest players or not. Champions league seems our only hope at the moment.
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Old 10-03-21, 10:33 AM   #1519
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Fair enough. My reply sounded more sarcastic than I intended. Our league form is so poor it doesn't seem to make much difference if we rest players or not. Champions league seems our only hope at the moment.
No probs lad. I didn't read it as sarcastic at all. Maybe the players are so done in with all the stress of defending champions that it is only the CL that can raise them. So you may be right. We will see tonight quick enough. We were in a sense lucky in the first leg to get the 2 goal win but we did look quite like our old selves.

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Old 10-03-21, 10:34 AM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Saveloy View Post
But we only have one egg. And there's only one basket available. The other option is to give it to a fox to carry it for us.
Is it an urban fox or standard country fox? Urban fox may not have the same taste for eggs as a country fox. Obviously. And will he carry this bespoke one-egg basket by the handle in his mouth or delicately balance the egg itself between his jaws? And this brings us back to the urban/rural divide as the egg won't last a second in the country fox's mouth. Solution - our previously delicious egg was approaching it's use-by date, so, either fox, we should have hardboiled the egg i.e. strengthened after winning the league.
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