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Old 23-01-18, 12:58 PM   #1
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how we should approach the bus parkers

we are the best team in the country, come and have a go if you're hard enough and we will take you down.

but if you come not to play then you have found our achilles heel

we need to set up differently and alter our tactics. a plan B, but not a hoofball set up...

we need to play 4-4-2 [diamond] of some description, or maybe a 3-5-2, but with wingers going wide to open up the opposition back lines. two guys in the middle who will interchange to move the centre backs around.

playing mane and salah as inverted wingers is no good as they have to come inside to get their shots off. these teams will be packing the middle of the pitch and will have two or three closing down our key players as they come into the final third and by the time they get to the opposition gaol area they will be running into a wall of bodies...
we need our wide men to be able to go wide and get the ball to the byline and give us the option to go wide. they could still come inside but at least playing as a 'normal' winger gives us the option of width.

we dont really need to be playing such 'defensive' as in a normal game as the other team will sit back and not press us so much unless we get in the final third. if we play 3-5-2 then one of our centre backs can come up field 15 yards to counter the long ball, and if we play 4-4-2 then one of our midfields can cover the deeper position, so it'll be a 4-4-2 diamond.

something like this... the players used can obviously vary, but this gives an idea of what we need in the different areas.
3-5-2.

- - ings - - - solanke - -
salah - - firmino - - mane
- - oxlade - - - taa - -
klavan - - vvd - - matip
- - - - - karius - - - - - -

4-4-2 diamond.

- - ings - - - solanke - -
- - - firmino/lallana - - -
- salah - - - - - - - mane -
- - - - - - - can - - - - - - -
robertson - lovren - vvd - taa
- - - - - - karius - - -- - - - -
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Old 23-01-18, 01:03 PM   #2
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Well when a team parks the bus you only have a few things to do to either stretch them or turn them.

1. WIDTH! Double up on the wings drag their players out of the congested middle.
2. Hold the ball deep, try draw them out a touch and play balls over the top.
3. Run at them and at the gaps as soon as you see a chance... make them turn and face their own goal.
4. DONT keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results..
5. DONT make piss poor passes to the opposition
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Old 23-01-18, 01:10 PM   #3
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we are the best team in the country, come and have a go if you're hard enough and we will take you down.

but if you come not to play then you have found our achilles heel

we need to set up differently and alter our tactics. a plan B, but not a hoofball set up...

we need to play 4-4-2 [diamond] of some description, or maybe a 3-5-2, but with wingers going wide to open up the opposition back lines. two guys in the middle who will interchange to move the centre backs around.

playing mane and salah as inverted wingers is no good as they have to come inside to get their shots off. these teams will be packing the middle of the pitch and will have two or three closing down our key players as they come into the final third and by the time they get to the opposition gaol area they will be running into a wall of bodies...
we need our wide men to be able to go wide and get the ball to the byline and give us the option to go wide. they could still come inside but at least playing as a 'normal' winger gives us the option of width.

we dont really need to be playing such 'defensive' as in a normal game as the other team will sit back and not press us so much unless we get in the final third. if we play 3-5-2 then one of our centre backs can come up field 15 yards to counter the long ball, and if we play 4-4-2 then one of our midfields can cover the deeper position, so it'll be a 4-4-2 diamond.

something like this... the players used can obviously vary, but this gives an idea of what we need in the different areas.
3-5-2.

- - ings - - - solanke - -
salah - - firmino - - mane
- - oxlade - - - taa - -
klavan - - vvd - - matip
- - - - - karius - - - - - -

4-4-2 diamond.

- - ings - - - solanke - -
- - - firmino/lallana - - -
- salah - - - - - - - mane -
- - - - - - - can - - - - - - -
robertson - lovren - vvd - taa
- - - - - - karius - - -- - - - -
Despite the "wrong" formation......

Salah missed a golden opportunity when he volleyed over
Firmino hit the post
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Old 23-01-18, 01:18 PM   #4
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City face the same as us and they're always getting down the sides, turning teams around and working balls across the box - Sterling scores so many of his goals arriving at the far post.
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Old 23-01-18, 01:22 PM   #5
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I dont think we have any issues tactically.

We do lack alternatives. When Mane (had a good chance last night), Firmino (hit the post) and Salah (if he mis hits that volley it probably goes in) arent scoring we lack alternatives from the bench.

I'm inclined to think it was just one of those games last night, but when city are in the same predicament they are looking at a bench full of £50m replacements.

Man Utd are the same and Sanchez will probably secure second for them.

I think we are better than Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal, but if they all strengthen then we need to also.

Our problem is, when it is not going the way of the front three we are struggling to find another player to bring on with the required quality. We must replace Coutinho.
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Old 23-01-18, 01:22 PM   #6
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If Klopp can't figure out how to break these teams down, then i don't think we will. But...

Its all about shear numbers of people- so when they do it, we need to really push the full back up to become wingers, and then stick one CM infront of the CB as a play maker, pinging balls forward and starting attacks- like Gerrard did in his later years

We also need to take our chances and not miss sitters... and make more of set pieces
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Old 23-01-18, 01:36 PM   #7
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obviously coutinho is a massive loss and he was someone that could help unlock a tight defence.

we had enough quality players on the pitch v swansea but we didnt seem to be using them correctly, despite the odd few chances we made.

as Shaggy mentioned, man city will go wide and turn a team around, crosses along the line or cut back, players getting on the near post and far post to put the ball in. they are running away with the league because they are able to unlock these teams that park the bus.

this is something that klopp seems unable to get his head around...
he want to play expansive football, and given the chance we are amazing, but when we need to adjust he is left scratching his head looking for ideas.
we are struggling, i know what to do, i will bollock the fourth official. this always works out well...
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Old 23-01-18, 01:54 PM   #8
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City face the same as us and they're always getting down the sides, turning teams around and working balls across the box - Sterling scores so many of his goals arriving at the far post.
As does Salah, we suffer from a lack of a number nine, they have two in Aguero (I think he's more of a 9 than a 10) and Jesus. Their creativity in midfield is also significantly better than ours.
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Old 23-01-18, 01:58 PM   #9
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Despite the "wrong" formation......

Salah missed a golden opportunity when he volleyed over
Firmino hit the post
Lallana also missed at the death, we really should have scored, we only started playing in the second half IMO. This is a mental problem I feel.
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Old 23-01-18, 01:59 PM   #10
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obviously coutinho is a massive loss and he was someone that could help unlock a tight defence.

we had enough quality players on the pitch v swansea but we didnt seem to be using them correctly, despite the odd few chances we made.

as Shaggy mentioned, man city will go wide and turn a team around, crosses along the line or cut back, players getting on the near post and far post to put the ball in. they are running away with the league because they are able to unlock these teams that park the bus.

this is something that klopp seems unable to get his head around...
he want to play expansive football, and given the chance we are amazing, but when we need to adjust he is left scratching his head looking for ideas.
we are struggling, i know what to do, i will bollock the fourth official. this always works out well...
Perhaps it was just an off day all round

I am struggling to think of one player who was anything above average yesterday

I think people sometimes read too much into formations etc..

We were poor but we still created 2 or 3 clear cut chances
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Old 23-01-18, 02:03 PM   #11
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Lallana also missed at the death, we really should have scored, we only started playing in the second half IMO. This is a mental problem I feel.
The only thing I would say is I feel against the lesser teams our players dwell on the ball too long

Its almost like, well its only Swansea so I will just dribble round this guy or take a couple of touches more

The approach and tempo has to be the same against the lesser sides as it is against the top

When we have started quickly we have generally even found a way through bus parkers

When we start slow, our game becomes mired in too many touches, too much approach play and that could also be a reason why we snatch at chances
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Old 23-01-18, 02:03 PM   #12
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City have the two best creative midfielders on the planet who make rest of the team look better than they are (bar Aguero who is still world class) with their ability to play defence splitting passes with perfect pace/height or whatever...

I think KDB has either created or scored everyone one of their goals. He's a fucking monster and they type of player we're missing.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:04 PM   #13
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For me we need a player like Suarez and a player like Alonso. Should be easy.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:05 PM   #14
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The only thing I would say is I feel against the lesser teams our players dwell on the ball too long

Its almost like, well its only Swansea so I will just dribble round this guy or take a couple of touches more

The approach and tempo has to be the same against the lesser sides as it is against the top

When we have started quickly we have generally even found a way through bus parkers

When we start slow, our game becomes mired in too many touches, too much approach play and that could also be a reason why we snatch at chances
Aye, you could tell after 30 seconds we were gonna drop points. That intensity thing is huge. So fucking frustrating.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:28 PM   #15
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We need a creative midfielder and full backs that will actually give us width, Robertson and Gomez were poor lady night, we probably would've been better with Moreno and TTA.

Klopp actually alluded to players not doing what they were supposed to do, so maybe it's just a case of players following instructions.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:31 PM   #16
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Play two up top - whether we add solanke or ings to basically get in the box as much as possible - Firmino will come looking for the ball a times, so an additional out and out striker will still mean we have that extra threat in the box.

Get width - Probably consider TAA at right back instead of Gomez

Maybe a change of tactic/set up - and be prepared to change something in game - For example if teams have completed parked the bus - do we really need all those defensive players - why not say sacrifice a CB for Lallana, because Can drops so deep anyway to get the ball off them that he practically plays CB anyway - So let him do so and have someone else further forward

When Can and the other pushes forward, you'd still have VVD and eg Gomez back - The teams that play so deep/park the bus, those two should be ok and we have robinson/oxlade with pace to get back should a sudden counter occur
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Old 23-01-18, 02:32 PM   #17
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Play two up top - whether we add solanke or ings to basically get in the box as much as possible - Firmino will come looking for the ball a times, so an additional out and out striker will still mean we have that extra threat in the box.

Get width - Probably consider TAA at right back instead of Gomez

Maybe a change of tactic/set up - and be prepared to change something in game - For example if teams have completed parked the bus - do we really need all those defensive players - why not say sacrifice a CB for Lallana, because Can drops so deep anyway to get the ball off them that he practically plays CB anyway - So let him do so and have someone else further forward

When Can and the other pushes forward, you'd still have VVD and eg Gomez back - The teams that play so deep/park the bus, those two should be ok and we have robinson/oxlade with pace to get back should a sudden counter occur
Solanke is utter turd

Might as well play with 10 men
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Old 23-01-18, 02:34 PM   #18
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City face the same as us and they're always getting down the sides, turning teams around and working balls across the box - Sterling scores so many of his goals arriving at the far post.
Pep realised this last season and spent a squillion pounds on 3 or 4 full backs last summer.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:35 PM   #19
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Solanke is utter turd

Might as well play with 10 men
you think he is that bad?
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Old 23-01-18, 02:37 PM   #20
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I'd rather him than Ings, but neither should be in a match day squad with intentions of using them.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:37 PM   #21
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The only thing I would say is I feel against the lesser teams our players dwell on the ball too long

Its almost like, well its only Swansea so I will just dribble round this guy or take a couple of touches more

The approach and tempo has to be the same against the lesser sides as it is against the top

When we have started quickly we have generally even found a way through bus parkers

When we start slow, our game becomes mired in too many touches, too much approach play and that could also be a reason why we snatch at chances
Something I've banged on about for ages - when we start slow that's it! game is set, we seem to have no ability to change mid game - it's either sharp/press/quick/slick from the first minute and we stay like that or we start slowly/sloppy and cant get going

it's like me getting up early, getting a decent brekkie/coffee in me and getting into work fresh as a daisy - I smash in the day or - waking up late/having a lie, starting slowly and feeling groggy and I get fuck all done.

I can't believe that's Klopp - he clearly is up for everything - so it could well be the mindset of the players we have......everyone bangs on about our captain or leaders in the side.....we don't have any - who in that squad demands the quality doesn't slip or who do you think our players look up too or scared and not meeting there standards!c

There isn't really anyone - we seem to have a fantastic atmosphere and likeable squad - but a couple of cunts who also happen to be great at football would do us the world of good.
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Old 23-01-18, 02:42 PM   #22
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Solanke is utter turd

Might as well play with 10 men
thing is tho - right now who else is there?

I do think we need to go and buy a few players in area - but i'm purely looking at what we have right now available to use.

The squad we have and the players available last night should not have been beaten in that manner.

It's football - anything can happen and teams will be unlucky and get shock results here and there....but last night wasn't a 'shock' result or performance - it was fairly standard Liverpool - we either blow teams away or we play like that.

And even without Coutinho we should be performing better than that. And we had plenty of performances like that with him available

I don't know what the answer is - but there must be someway of trying something different in these circumstances - maybe woodburn, or ings or someone
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Old 23-01-18, 02:43 PM   #23
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I'd rather him than Ings, but neither should be in a match day squad with intentions of using them.
again I agree - but we don't have much choice unless we sign some extra players
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Old 23-01-18, 02:50 PM   #24
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Thing with Citeh is that they push both fullbacks right up, but they have a couple of players capable of beating a man in the middle to help create space (Silva and KdB) and they've got Fernandinho sitting capable of nullifying most breaks if they lose it.

Plus KdB's passing is right up there with Alonso in terms of picking a hole in a tight defence.
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Old 23-01-18, 03:48 PM   #25
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Aye, you could tell after 30 seconds we were gonna drop points. That intensity thing is huge. So fucking frustrating.
The first post in the match thread after kick off was 'bit like a training match so far', and that was 10 mins in to the game. We just didn't look at all up for it from the start. Not sure how Klopp can even address that.

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Old 23-01-18, 03:52 PM   #26
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The first post in the match thread after kick off was 'bit like a training match so far '. We just didn't look at all up for it from the start. Not sure how Klopp can even address that.
Snap the cunts.



(Snap was an “autocorrect” () for slap, but seems a reasonable suggestion too).
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Old 23-01-18, 04:02 PM   #27
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When the ball went out to our full-backs last night it just came back inside a few seconds later. So there was no real width. There was no attempt to 'get round the back' (John Barnes™). Was that due to instructions? Or a lack of confidence that they have the pace? Same applies to Mane/Salah. We were so sluggish and had few ideas - apart from VVD who was looking for probing passes.
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Old 23-01-18, 04:06 PM   #28
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Perhaps it was just an off day all round

I am struggling to think of one player who was anything above average yesterday

I think people sometimes read too much into formations etc..

We were poor but we still created 2 or 3 clear cut chances
Well we tend to have a lot of these "off" days... especially against teams that park the bus... there is a pattern... our tactics dont change or adapt to these situations.
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Old 23-01-18, 04:15 PM   #29
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When the ball went out to our full-backs last night it just came back inside a few seconds later. So there was no real width. There was no attempt to 'get round the back' (John Barnes™). Was that due to instructions? Or a lack of confidence that they have the pace? Same applies to Mane/Salah. We were so sluggish and had few ideas - apart from VVD who was looking for probing passes.
Do you think VVD and Matip venturing forward caused it to be even more condensed in their half?
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Old 23-01-18, 04:28 PM   #30
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Yeah - it was interesting to see VVD and Matip with the ball in their half looking for a pass forward. I guess that's an old tactic - "let their centre-halves have it rather than their creative midfielders". Thing is, if that chip to Salah from VVD had gone in, we would be having a completely different conversation...we might have won 4-0 as they went for the equaliser. But I thught VVD was more creative in his passes than Can, who dropped deep to get the ball off them.
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Old 23-01-18, 05:08 PM   #31
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I think we just need to speed up the pace of our game...too slow and way too many back passes...
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Old 23-01-18, 05:19 PM   #32
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you think he is that bad?
Yep
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Old 23-01-18, 05:21 PM   #33
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If Klopp can't figure out how to break these teams down, then i don't think we will. But...

Its all about shear numbers of people- so when they do it, we need to really push the full back up to become wingers, and then stick one CM infront of the CB as a play maker, pinging balls forward and starting attacks- like Gerrard did in his later years

We also need to take our chances and not miss sitters... and make more of set pieces
In reality, we should have scored 3 or 4 last night. Mane, Salah, Ings and Firmino all should have scored a goal. And Lallana too when Firminos didn't go in.

Guy in work today was saying that we needed a big man to lump the ball into. What the fuck??? That would only be true if we didn't have touches in their box.

It was just one of those games where we didn't click. I suspect that Huddersfield will feel the backlash in the next league match.
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Old 23-01-18, 05:22 PM   #34
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Well we tend to have a lot of these "off" days... especially against teams that park the bus... there is a pattern... our tactics dont change or adapt to these situations.
I don't think we have had as many off days this season. Last utter shite performance was probably Spurs

Do City's tactics change against such sides?

Despite playing poorly and not having the "correct" tactics we could easily have scored 2 or 3 last night
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Old 23-01-18, 05:46 PM   #35
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The West Brom and Newcastle draws were pretty dire.
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Old 23-01-18, 06:12 PM   #36
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As does Salah, we suffer from a lack of a number nine, they have two in Aguero (I think he's more of a 9 than a 10) and Jesus. Their creativity in midfield is also significantly better than ours.
Always gong to do better if the son of god is in your team.
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Old 23-01-18, 09:03 PM   #37
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I think that this is the type of game where you just need an out and out striker who is a natural finisher. We don't have one at the moment. I know the Firmino / all round player has been debated to death, and this isn't an attack on Firmino but I feel that someone who will stay in the box and if a chance comes their way they will more likely than not stick it in the back of the net. Firmino is drifting deep, pulling out wide etc. I think just having someone in there all the time offers the constant threat.
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Old 23-01-18, 09:25 PM   #38
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I think that this is the type of game where you just need an out and out striker who is a natural finisher. We don't have one at the moment. I know the Firmino / all round player has been debated to death, and this isn't an attack on Firmino but I feel that someone who will stay in the box and if a chance comes their way they will more likely than not stick it in the back of the net. Firmino is drifting deep, pulling out wide etc. I think just having someone in there all the time offers the constant threat.
bobby like to link up with others and use his quick feet to dribble but he isnt going to do that in a packed defence.
if we had ings and/or solanke as the main guy up front with firmino deeper, as a 10 at the tip of the diamond, then we would still have him in a useful position to help unlock the side door to the bus.
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Old 23-01-18, 09:38 PM   #39
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Proper quality width from full back
a striker on the shoulder constantly looking to get on the end of a pass
Midfielder who wants to run forward, Keita?!
An Ozil/Silva type setting the tempo, prodding away until an opening.

Problem is most of answers to the bus parking dont fit into our normal plan A. Not going to get a quality player like Ozil to only drop them in the big games when we play our pressing game. If we could rotate Ozil/Gini that would be nice.

Going 3 at the back seems alright shape wise, but then seems daft to waste another shirt on a defender when they are sitting back and offering nothing
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Old 23-01-18, 09:58 PM   #40
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For games like this... we need a physical presence, a second option up front to speak..knockdowns and runners winning the second ball no?
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