Ozan Kabak - Page 6

Peter_Griffin · 20-02-21, 11:37 PM

He’s a 20 year old defender playing in a team running low on confidence. He’s going to be inconsistent. He’s 20! He’s the same as every 20 year old defender in the game

Jaco_Pastorious · 20-02-21, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Griffin

He’s a 20 year old defender playing in a team running low on confidence. He’s going to be inconsistent. He’s 20! He’s the same as every 20 year old defender in the game

This!

And to add to that, he has come from a team that sat deep, rarely attempted a high line or catching teams offside further up the pitch, and is a couple weeks in a new team/league/country.

Chazza · 20-02-21, 11:46 PM

Not like he was pulling up trees in Germany though was it?

I appreciate we are skint and have to deal in a certain pool of players but he is rash getting booked in every game so far and today he was struggling to do the basics

If you are gonna spend a few quid on Davies who at least knows the tempo of the game over here then surely he is a better bet to start with.

Jaco_Pastorious · 20-02-21, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

Not like he was pulling up trees in Germany though was it?

I appreciate we are skint and have to deal in a certain pool of players but he is rash getting booked in every game so far and today he was struggling to do the basics

If you are gonna spend a few quid on Davies who at least knows the tempo of the game over here then surely he is a better bet to start with.

He won young player or rookie of the season in Germany in his first or second season there so fair to say he was catching the eye.

People were gushing about him in here on Tuesday night now there seems to be a line of people saying him, Thiago, Salah, Mane etc etc are shit, divers and what not.(not saying you called Kabak or others that, but there are plenty of reactive (understandably after another loss) posts that are just writing players off for one reason or another.

The blame for our current awful form is collective and that goes from the manager down.

The same way when we do well the credit should be collective as well.

We are doing poorly in the league at present, but the players we have are what we have until the end of the season. It is up to Klopp and the players available to fight their way out of this slump

Chazza · 21-02-21, 12:03 AM

Get all of that but the thread relates to the player and at the moment he’s not looking up to it.

I don’t think anyone can say he’s looked good enough so far, he might come good but we don’t have time to play with someone who is going to make mistakes.

Fredo · 21-02-21, 12:05 AM

I think Kabak is playing instead of Davies because we’ve been tracking him for some time and is clearly rated by the scouting team, whereas Davies is purely an emergency backup option. Kabak not doing the basics is the situation we’re in, having to delve into the transfer market at the last minute and no time to have players fit in our system instead of doing it in pre season. It’s basically experimenting with team selections at the back in a live environment.

Maxiedge · 21-02-21, 12:09 AM

That fucking header at the start for the corner

talk about starting the game confidently. Him and Thiago were at fault for a poor start but why were they so apprehensive. Shouldn't we have come out of the blocks? So odd.

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

Get all of that but the thread relates to the player and at the moment he’s not looking up to it.

I don’t think anyone can say he’s looked good enough so far, he might come good but we don’t have time to play with someone who is going to make mistakes.

He was decent for the most part against Leicester, good against Leipzig and had a rough time in a derby game.

Three games with a new team, a team that is struggling just as badly without him. The guy was brought in to be a potential fourth choice centre back and has yet to play a game for us with another CB beside him.

But to go with what you are saying then. We drop him, so who do we play at CB for the next run of games? Fabinho is out, Henderson is out.

Phillips who looks even more limited than Kabak and Davies who has yet to play for us? And if one or both of them are not pulling up trees straight away, what then?

We are down to the bare bones at the back, and now it looks like we are reaching a similar point in midfield. So it is going to be a matter of picking players and sticking with them in the short term and hope that they do not get caught out too much.

Fredo · 21-02-21, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiedge

That fucking header at the start for the corner

talk about starting the game confidently. Him and Thiago were at fault for a poor start but why were they so apprehensive. Shouldn't we have come out of the blocks? So odd.

The wind played to that as well. Never felt comfortable dealing with the fight of the ball first half.

Chazza · 21-02-21, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious

He was decent for the most part against Leicester, good against Leipzig and had a rough time in a derby game.

Three games with a new team, a team that is struggling just as badly without him. The guy was brought in to be a potential fourth choice centre back and has yet to play a game for us with another CB beside him.

But to go with what you are saying then. We drop him, so who do we play at CB for the next run of games? Fabinho is out, Henderson is out.

Phillips who looks even more limited than Kabak and Davies who has yet to play for us? And if one or both of them are not pulling up trees straight away, what then?

We are down to the bare bones at the back, and now it looks like we are reaching a similar point in midfield. So it is going to be a matter of picking players and sticking with them in the short term and hope that they do not get caught out too much.

I would do with Davies over him now. He’s played at a level below for a good few seasons and should be given a go.

Depending on who his fit next week then I would go Davies and Fab or Davies and Phillips just not seeing it with Kabak at all.

Rich · 21-02-21, 12:22 AM

This was the 63rd league start of his career. He had won 11 of the previous 62 and had been on the winning side in one of the previous 27.

The guardian

Think I’d Give up

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

I would do with Davies over him now. He’s played at a level below for a good few seasons and should be given a go.

Depending on who his fit next week then I would go Davies and Fab or Davies and Phillips just not seeing it with Kabak at all.

And if Davies comes in and is not looking good within two or three games or if he loooks like a Championship player from the get go? Then who do we replace him with?

Just think we need to take a gamble and stick with whatever CB or CBs we pick, and hope that they get used to the system quickly. Otherwise we are going to be chopping and changing every coule games when a new player is not slotting in seemlessly.

And for the record, before we even played the City game I was looking for us to play both Kabak and Davies together and let them have a run together to build an understanding so I am not against Davies or whomeever playing. I just want to see us pick a pairing and try to let them build up a partnership.

My logic at the time when I said play Kabak and Davies together was that we had Fabinho and Henderson fit at the same time, so putting both of them back into midfield mean, in myhead anyway, that we would have a full strength attack, and full strength midfield and three fifths of a starting back line rather than doing what we are doing every week and having a weakened midfield sitting in front of a weakned back line.

I'm a big fan of doing the obvious with a team and that means playing players in their natural positions. So in the case of Kabak, Phillips and Davies , all three are natural CBs regardless of what their final level of quality is or will be. So let two of the three be our CB partnership and give them games to iron out mistakes.

The mistakes are gong to keep coming anyway as we are seeing with our contstant chopping and changing, so we might as well let two natural CBs try to develop some sort of mutual understanding for the rest of the season and play the best available players in every other position in the team.

Exiled_red · 21-02-21, 12:32 AM

He wasn't great for the first goal but those are the types of mistakes that you make when you are setting into a new team or league. He wasn't terrible, I think some people are going over the top here.

It takes time to develop an understanding, we are going to be making some mistakes and conceding some goals. The problem is at the other end of the park, we have failed to score in 6 of the last 10 PL games, we haven't conceded more than 1 in 7 of those 10, while the defence has had some shake moments if we were scoring goals we'd be winning games.

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

This was the 63rd league start of his career. He had won 11 of the previous 62 and had been on the winning side in one of the previous 27.

The guardian

Think I’d Give up

Yes playing in an awful team.

Just looked at a couple similar stats.

One of our current big name players had this run of games before joining us.

Played 40..won 9, drew 10, lost 21. That is the record from Wijnaldum's last 40 games played before joining us.

Robertson's final 40 games played for Hull has even more losses than Wijnaldum's final 40 with Newcastle.

So not sure what bearing playing in a shit team before joining us is meant to have.

Chazza · 21-02-21, 12:38 AM

How can you be rookie of the year in such a bad team? Surely you are showing something more than this and being courted by the top teams in Europe?

Chazza · 21-02-21, 12:40 AM

I’m labouring the point of course but just not seeing a player in there.

You have to have a bit about you to mentally succeed at a top team and I don’t think he has it.

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exiled_red

He wasn't great for the first goal but those are the types of mistakes that you make when you are setting into a new team or league. He wasn't terrible, I think some people are going over the top here.

It takes time to develop an understanding, we are going to be making some mistakes and conceding some goals. The problem is at the other end of the park, we have failed to score in 6 of the last 10 PL games, we haven't conceded more than 1 in 7 of those 10, while the defence has had some shake moments if we were scoring goals we'd be winning games.

Yep we have an attack and midfield that is goal shy save for Salah. We have even one other player scoring at even two thirds of the rate of Salah and we would have turned some draws into wins and some losses into draws.

I expect errors at the back because of how depleted we are there, but our attack is blunt and it is not as though they are not creating chances, they are just lacking any sort of regular cutting edge again save for Salah.

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

How can you be rookie of the year in such a bad team? Surely you are showing something more than this and being courted by the top teams in Europe?

Because Schalke were not doing as badly the past two seasons as they are this season.

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

I’m labouring the point of course but just not seeing a player in there.

You have to have a bit about you to mentally succeed at a top team and I don’t think he has it.

He is 20. So any of our players who are 20 or older and who are not tearing it up are automatically not good enough mentally as well right? After all they are used to the club, the league and the cuntry so they must have even less excuses that a new kid.

Or any new player we buy 20 or older in the future basically has to be doing well in their first three games or they are not good enough?

Sorry for being a bit facetious, but if that is the standard you are setting for a kid new to the league, after three games, then surely that same standard has to apply for every new player we get or any player not doing well.

And maybe you are right and he will not be good enough for us, but I just think we would run out of players really fast if three games is the deciding number of games.

Chazza · 21-02-21, 12:53 AM

How many games should we judge on then?

Jaco_Pastorious · 21-02-21, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

How many games should we judge on then?

16.735 games

Chazza · 21-02-21, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious

16.735 games

I look forward to him still not being good enough but the Bundesliga trophy being on his mantle piece.

Zapater · 21-02-21, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious

16.735 games

Chazza won't be satisfied until it is unanimously and irrationally agreed on est that he is absolute shit and the source of all problems. Even though said problems started long before he was integrated into the team and Kabak to my eye anyway hasn't been on a significantly better or worse level than any other player.

It is weird that we've been linked to him for a year now and people are still convinced that we've randomly picked him up for no reason. He's clearly a player that we've been scouting and looking at for some time.

Chazza · 21-02-21, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapater

Chazza won't be satisfied until it is unanimously and irrationally agreed on est that he is absolute shit and the source of all problems. Even though said problems started long before he was integrated into the team and Kabak to my eye anyway hasn't been on a significantly better or worse level than any other player.

It is weird that we've been linked to him for a year now and people are still convinced that we've randomly picked him up for no reason. He's clearly a player that we've been scouting and looking at for some time.

Yep cos I am constantly posting on here looking for people to agree with my opinion

RichC · 21-02-21, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapater

Chazza won't be satisfied until it is unanimously and irrationally agreed on est that he is absolute shit and the source of all problems. Even though said problems started long before he was integrated into the team and Kabak to my eye anyway hasn't been on a significantly better or worse level than any other player.

It is weird that we've been linked to him for a year now and people are still convinced that we've randomly picked him up for no reason. He's clearly a player that we've been scouting and looking at for some time.

Scouting and being interested in is very different to starting and playing in this current side. He might come good in the longer term but as we are, with a side bereft of confidence or any sort of continuity at the back he’s not looked good at all.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but Nat Phillips is probably our lead centre back now and we need to work on who can partner him, could be Kabak but based on what I’ve seen so far I’m not convinced and I’d be tempted to give Davies a go with Phillips.

I mean it can’t actually get much worse !

BobTheCharmer · 21-02-21, 11:22 AM

I feel sorry for the kid. Whenever I've seen him in Germany he looks rash and dives in. Like a young lovren. Coming into a new country, halfway through a season, in a struggling team is a hiding to nothing. He's got no chance really. Hope the experience doesn't ruin him. We needed old heads not kids to help us.

Kenneth · 21-02-21, 12:32 PM

I didn't think he was all that bad. Carra constantly laying in to him had created an exaggerated view for many people I feel.

Buzzo · 21-02-21, 12:37 PM

It was Thiagos mistake that put him under pressure on the goal, but he is what he is. A young player learning the game that has been thrown into an underperforming team.

Mainly he looks like a decent prospect.

RichC · 21-02-21, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth

I didn't think he was all that bad. Carra constantly laying in to him had created an exaggerated view for many people I feel.

Or people watched the game and have the ability to judge with their eyes rather what the commentators say.

RichC · 21-02-21, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzo

It was Thiagos mistake that put him under pressure on the goal, but he is what he is. A young player learning the game that has been thrown into an underperforming team.

Mainly he looks like a decent prospect.

He’s playing in a side he probably shouldn’t be anywhere near at the moment, that’s not on him at all but more of where we are with injuries etc ...

Kenneth · 21-02-21, 12:55 PM

The goal wasn't his fault. It was a good run and through ball. He was caught somewhat in two minds when James Rodriguez got the ball because he wasn't properly closed down by the three Liverpool midfielders around him, but Hendo did nothing to help at all. There was a quick striker on the shoulder of the CB and a creative passer with time to pick out the run, if well executed, they end up with shots on target, just the way it is. The problem was having the ball bouncing around randomly near the edge of our box in the first few minutes of the game. And it was triggered by Thiago needlessly trying to chest a pass and losing possession, which is not the kind of thing required with 2 minutes on the clock.

Kenneth · 21-02-21, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Or people watched the game and have the ability to judge with their eyes rather what the commentators say.

Or a bit of both.

RichC · 21-02-21, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth

Or a bit of both.

Your only benchmark is yourself really. Perhaps watch games without the commentary, might help with your own judgements

Kenneth · 21-02-21, 02:19 PM

Most of the games I watch on foreign streams with foreign commentary. It's a better experience than sky or bt usually, and I'm slowly leaning Malay as a bonus.

BobTheCharmer · 21-02-21, 02:22 PM

I've just stopped watching altogether. Well apart from champions league.

Big-Red-Ed · 21-02-21, 08:35 PM

He's only young but I've already got doubts. 3 games 3 bookings, not good but that can be improved. Reading of the game not been great at times but again that can be improved and he can be excused slightly being a newbie. Has been woefully slow a few times. Unfortunately not much can be done about that.
Personally I've seen enough of Nat to prefer him. So Nat and Fabinho for me.

YNWA

Jas · 22-02-21, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Red-Ed

He's only young but I've already got doubts. 3 games 3 bookings, not good but that can be improved. Reading of the game not been great at times but again that can be improved and he can be excused slightly being a newbie. Has been woefully slow a few times. Unfortunately not much can be done about that.
Personally I've seen enough of Nat to prefer him. So Nat and Fabinho for me.

YNWA

The booking on Saturday was bollocks as he actually slipped before he made contact with the Everton player so there was nothing he could do to prevent the contact.

Norbs · 22-02-21, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazza

I would do with Davies over him now. He’s played at a level below for a good few seasons and should be given a go.

Depending on who his fit next week then I would go Davies and Fab or Davies and Phillips just not seeing it with Kabak at all.

Not buying that because we've tracked him he's ready for game time. Proved in the past that bedding in on the training field is more important that blooding on the field.

Sheffield Utd will surely pump high balls, I'd have Phillips on the field as first choice and then one other

RichC · 22-02-21, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not buying that because we've tracked him he's ready for game time. Proved in the past that bedding in on the training field is more important that blooding on the field.

Sheffield Utd will surely pump high balls, I'd have Phillips on the field as first choice and then one other

Exiled_red · 22-02-21, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norbs

Not buying that because we've tracked him he's ready for game time. Proved in the past that bedding in on the training field is more important that blooding on the field.

Sheffield Utd will surely pump high balls, I'd have Phillips on the field as first choice and then one other

Surely at the moment the obvious pairing is Kabak and Phillips.

IMO with what we have available at the moment I think Kabak is 1st choice because of the situation more than form.