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Old 17-10-21, 09:25 AM   #9161
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Martin upsets Mikey Garcia. Mikey can't complain about that at all for me. Over the 10 rounds Martin boxed smart and did the smoother, cleaner work. It's hard to imagine that result beforehand, but it's fair. I thought they may have robbed him because in America, a lot of judges mistake coming forward as ring generalship in those hard to score rounds. Martin was quite slick and showed some handy head movement/counter punching. It'll be interesting to see if it's a one off or if he's actually a good fighter at this level. There'll probably be a rematch, if not Garcia should go back to lightweight. It was a bit strange because in some ways it looked more like an active sparring session than a pro fight. Maybe the stage was a bit small for Mikey to get going, but full credit to Martin either way, really well executed.
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Old 17-10-21, 09:49 AM   #9162
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I like to revisit old fights, it's just something I do to compare what I thought at the time vs now. It's hard to believe it was around 20 years ago, but Mosley vs De la Hoya 2 is an interesting one which I think about from time to time. It was a good fight, not incredibly memorable, but still a good one. The speed, footwork etc at the start and the heart at the end. I watched it for a second time around 10 years ago and again today.

I think Mosley would've stopped Oscar if it were a 15 round fight as his body work was slowing him down. In some ways, I don't think Oscar was ever the same after that, or more that it was the beginning of the end. Hopkins, Mayweather and Manny get the credit, but I think this took a lot out of Oscar. IIRC Mayweather Sr and Oscar had a massive cry of being robbed after the fight, I still can't see how they could think that. The first 8 rounds were close with Shane doing the slightly heavier work and beating Oscar to the punch slightly more often than not and then won the latter rounds. I think I enjoyed it today more than I did the previous times. The more boxing I watch though and think about, the more I feel I have no idea how to score a fight after seeing so many fucked up cards.

On Mosley, I think he's somewhat underrated. Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright were ridiculous assignments for him size and style wise. It's easy to remember the slow, gun shy, old Mosley who lost a lot at the end of his career. He got old in the ring in the second half of the Mayweather fight and probably should have hung them up right there. I know the timing was wrong for them at lightweight, as Mayweather was younger/smaller then, but at lightweight I think would have been an awful fight for Floyd if he had to have moved up. The 98 lightweight Mosley would have been a nightmare for him.
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Old 17-10-21, 11:03 AM   #9163
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Mikey seems to have been enjoying his food a little too much.

You couldn't help but think the fix was in when the first judge scored it 95-95.

Welter or even the 145 catch weight is a bridge too far for Mikey. Can he no longer make 140?
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Old 17-10-21, 11:21 AM   #9164
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Mikey seems to have been enjoying his food a little too much.

You couldn't help but think the fix was in when the first judge scored it 95-95.

Welter or even the 145 catch weight is a bridge too far for Mikey. Can he no longer make 140?

Old video, but he does indeed love his food. Maybe it's not that easy to get away with now that he's a little older. It was more a blip for me though, wasn't outboxed or beaten up. Just narrowly lost the rounds and didn't work hard enough. He didn't pay the price in the gym and lost. It was strange how relaxed he was about it too. After 40 fights maybe his spark wasn't quite lit. Still has plenty of mileage left and I think he'll be back strong sooner or later at whatever weight he chooses.
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Old 19-10-21, 11:36 AM   #9165
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I like to revisit old fights, it's just something I do to compare what I thought at the time vs now. It's hard to believe it was around 20 years ago, but Mosley vs De la Hoya 2 is an interesting one which I think about from time to time. It was a good fight, not incredibly memorable, but still a good one. The speed, footwork etc at the start and the heart at the end. I watched it for a second time around 10 years ago and again today.

I think Mosley would've stopped Oscar if it were a 15 round fight as his body work was slowing him down. In some ways, I don't think Oscar was ever the same after that, or more that it was the beginning of the end. Hopkins, Mayweather and Manny get the credit, but I think this took a lot out of Oscar. IIRC Mayweather Sr and Oscar had a massive cry of being robbed after the fight, I still can't see how they could think that. The first 8 rounds were close with Shane doing the slightly heavier work and beating Oscar to the punch slightly more often than not and then won the latter rounds. I think I enjoyed it today more than I did the previous times. The more boxing I watch though and think about, the more I feel I have no idea how to score a fight after seeing so many fucked up cards.

On Mosley, I think he's somewhat underrated. Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright were ridiculous assignments for him size and style wise. It's easy to remember the slow, gun shy, old Mosley who lost a lot at the end of his career. He got old in the ring in the second half of the Mayweather fight and probably should have hung them up right there. I know the timing was wrong for them at lightweight, as Mayweather was younger/smaller then, but at lightweight I think would have been an awful fight for Floyd if he had to have moved up. The 98 lightweight Mosley would have been a nightmare for him.



Cracking post. Enjoyed reading it and will have to give that fight a rewatch myself after reading the above.

From what I can recall of that fight I think it was one that reminded me of Hagler/Leonard for the very reason you eluded to in that the result may have been very different had the fight been a few rounds longer.

Cannot disagree with anything you say about Mosley. Think that is a very fair assessment of a guy whose best days seem to be overlooked an awful lot. Some fighters seem to have their legacy enhanced with the benefit of hidsight, but Mosley seems to have gone the other way as the latter stages of his career tend to be where the focus remains to this day.
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Old 30-10-21, 11:46 AM   #9166
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This is brilliant. I remember watching both fights with my dad, and their careers, totally enthralled. What a time for middleweight boxing, British boxing.

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Old 07-11-21, 05:36 AM   #9167
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That was super impressive from Canelo. Absolute predator at the end.
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Old 07-11-21, 05:50 AM   #9168
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Plant boxed very well but the power Canelo has is very impressive.
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Old 07-11-21, 11:42 AM   #9169
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Another commanding performance from the extremely talented drug cheat
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Old 07-11-21, 12:32 PM   #9170
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I don’t think it was commanding; Plant outboxed him for the vast majority of that fight.

Staying clear of contaminated meat seems to be Canelos issue though
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Old 07-11-21, 12:45 PM   #9171
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Old 07-11-21, 12:56 PM   #9172
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Vegas scoring cards for their cash cow. Remember Mayweather was a split decision after dominating him for 12 Rounds.

What I saw was Plant out box him, clear as day.
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Old 07-11-21, 01:25 PM   #9173
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I’m happy for you
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Old 07-11-21, 01:32 PM   #9174
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Bless.
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Old 09-11-21, 02:29 PM   #9175
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Ended up watching a replay of the fight mainly due to the exchange between Rich C and Fidget


Statistically/on paper Canelo was dominant, but Plant was the cleaner operator to my eyes for periods of the fight however Plant was so utterly lacking in any sort of power that Canelo openly walked into a lot as there was nothing to worry him or force him into being more tactical.

Think if Plant had any sort of power at all to his punching then Canelo would have tightened up and fought a very different fight. Then again if Plant had any real power Canelo probably would have faced someone else.

Tried scoring it as I watched and had it at 95 -95 after 10 rounds though there was a round that could have gone either way for me.

I gave Plant rounds 1, 4, 8, 9 and 10. Canelo got 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7.

Round 8 was the one I felt could have gone either way but I gave it to Plant. Canelo looked more aggressive in round 8, but a lot of his shots only hit arm and did not connect cleanly. So gave it to Plant for his defensve work in the round.


Edit: Do feel that the fight was one that Canelo could have ended sooner though as he could have walked Plant down a few rounds earlier imo such was the difference in punching power and durability between them
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Old 09-11-21, 06:55 PM   #9176
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Ended up watching a replay of the fight mainly due to the exchange between Rich C and Fidget


Statistically/on paper Canelo was dominant, but Plant was the cleaner operator to my eyes for periods of the fight however Plant was so utterly lacking in any sort of power that Canelo openly walked into a lot as there was nothing to worry him or force him into being more tactical.

Think if Plant had any sort of power at all to his punching then Canelo would have tightened up and fought a very different fight. Then again if Plant had any real power Canelo probably would have faced someone else.

Tried scoring it as I watched and had it at 95 -95 after 10 rounds though there was a round that could have gone either way for me.

I gave Plant rounds 1, 4, 8, 9 and 10. Canelo got 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7.

Round 8 was the one I felt could have gone either way but I gave it to Plant. Canelo looked more aggressive in round 8, but a lot of his shots only hit arm and did not connect cleanly. So gave it to Plant for his defensve work in the round.


Edit: Do feel that the fight was one that Canelo could have ended sooner though as he could have walked Plant down a few rounds earlier imo such was the difference in punching power and durability between them
It was a close fight; Plant doesn't have the power and you can see that but he's a good technician

Canelo was always going to win on the scorecards (it's Vegas!) but he also has the (contaminated meat) power to have stopped him whenever he really connected.

Canelo as first undisputed SM champion seems all kind of wrong to me but you beat what's put in front of you
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Old 09-11-21, 10:44 PM   #9177
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It was a close fight; Plant doesn't have the power and you can see that but he's a good technician

Canelo was always going to win on the scorecards (it's Vegas!) but he also has the (contaminated meat) power to have stopped him whenever he really connected.

Canelo as first undisputed SM champion seems all kind of wrong to me but you beat what's put in front of you

Or you beat what you try your best to hand pick in the case of Canelo more often than not.

I agree Plant is a sound boxer. He moves well, he has a nice defense and his attacking patterns are quite effective in getting past an opponent's defense.

Unfortunately for him he is badly lacking in any sort of decent power. If he even had middling power he might have been able to put some doubt in Canelo. Course if Plant had middling power or better then Canelo would have found easier fare as said earlier or found a way to work some stipultaions into a bout.
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Old 14-11-21, 07:36 AM   #9178
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Decent scrap between Rosado and Munguia. A good example of how a competitive fight can be scored really wide. Munguia is really smooth, I like him, maybe still a little raw to take on some of the best but really good. Big too, you'd think he was dropping down a division not Rosado.

Competitive fight and Munguia had to work and take some decent shots, but he won just about every round, so the scorecards look bad but it shouldn't be seen as a poor reflection on Rosado.

Watching that Roach looks about 100 and Bernard Hopkins 95.
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Old 14-11-21, 12:02 PM   #9179
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Decent scrap between Rosado and Munguia. A good example of how a competitive fight can be scored really wide. Munguia is really smooth, I like him, maybe still a little raw to take on some of the best but really good. Big too, you'd think he was dropping down a division not Rosado.

Competitive fight and Munguia had to work and take some decent shots, but he won just about every round, so the scorecards look bad but it shouldn't be seen as a poor reflection on Rosado.

Watching that Roach looks about 100 and Bernard Hopkins 95.

Hopkins was born looking 75 so him looking 95 now means he is doing pretty well.


Fair point on the scoring too. Think the scoring was correct but every round won was earned the hard way. Was a very entertaining fight to watch.

Munguia is a talent and when he gets more quality round under his belt that he has to earn like against Rosado, you can only imagine that he will grow better from the experience.


The fight before it, Rocha vs Barraza, turned out to be way more one sided than I expected it to be and I was expecting it to be one way traffic to begin with.

Rocha just swarmed him from the first round and Barreza was surviving on guts alone for a long time, tbh I thought he was left take shots for maybe too long overall as it was very one sided for a long time and whilst he was still standing and answering the ref's calls, his corner should have made a decision for him instead of letting their man spend round after round taking a beating.

Think from about round four or five I was just repeating "Just fecking end it" over and over at the screen.

Barraza is going to be a sore lad for the next few days with all the hard shots he took to the body. Too brave for his own good.
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Old 18-11-21, 09:40 AM   #9180
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Canelo fighting... Ilunga Makabu someone who Bellew took out in 3 rounds. He'll no doubt win and be labelled a maverick for beating a second tier cruiser. I've seen him fight in the flesh a couple times in Johannesburg, he has decent punching power but is very average skills wise. Bad feet too, made to order for a smaller, better schooled opponent.

To be fair though, he has defended his cruiserweight title a few times, would love to see Canelo stopped but don't see it and wouldn't be surprised if there's some weight stipulation in the agreement. Like when Canelo started at "middleweight" draining guys at 157/8 catchweights.

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Hopkins was born looking 75 so him looking 95 now means he is doing pretty well.


Fair point on the scoring too. Think the scoring was correct but every round won was earned the hard way. Was a very entertaining fight to watch.

Munguia is a talent and when he gets more quality round under his belt that he has to earn like against Rosado, you can only imagine that he will grow better from the experience.


The fight before it, Rocha vs Barraza, turned out to be way more one sided than I expected it to be and I was expecting it to be one way traffic to begin with.

Rocha just swarmed him from the first round and Barreza was surviving on guts alone for a long time, tbh I thought he was left take shots for maybe too long overall as it was very one sided for a long time and whilst he was still standing and answering the ref's calls, his corner should have made a decision for him instead of letting their man spend round after round taking a beating.

Think from about round four or five I was just repeating "Just fecking end it" over and over at the screen.

Barraza is going to be a sore lad for the next few days with all the hard shots he took to the body. Too brave for his own good.
It was unusual as Barraza was quite good in terms of movement and reflexes for a punching bag. Should've been pulled out a few rounds earlier, dodged and slipped just enough but was never in the fight. He'll probably be pissing blood for another week.
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Old 18-11-21, 09:58 AM   #9181
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Any idea what Canelo weighed as he entered the ring against Plant?

Even if he win's an alphabet title at Cruiser I don't see Canelo going full Jones Jr here and claiming a title at heavyweight
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Old 18-11-21, 11:18 AM   #9182
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Had a Google and couldn't find anything, but presumably several kilos as per usual. Although, I'm imagining not that much extra now that he's up at this weight. It seems that the WBC have reduced their cruiserweight limit to 190 because of this stupid new bridgerweight category. So, yes... Makabu will need to drop a considerable amount to make weight, there's always something with this.

Either way, it's good news for Benevidez and Munguia who are still a bit green for Canelo and could do with some more experience. Canelo has said though that he's conveniently reluctant to fight other Mexicans, so it remains to be seen if those fights will ever be made.

In other news, some title fights this weekend. Crawford and Andrade in action on the weekend. Not against each other obviously.
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Old 18-11-21, 11:53 AM   #9183
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Had a Google and couldn't find anything, but presumably several kilos as per usual. Although, I'm imagining not that much extra now that he's up at this weight. It seems that the WBC have reduced their cruiserweight limit to 190 because of this stupid new bridgerweight category. So, yes... Makabu will need to drop a considerable amount to make weight, there's always something with this.

Either way, it's good news for Benevidez and Munguia who are still a bit green for Canelo and could do with some more experience. Canelo has said though that he's conveniently reluctant to fight other Mexicans, so it remains to be seen if those fights will ever be made.

In other news, some title fights this weekend. Crawford and Andrade in action on the weekend. Not against each other obviously.

Yep Canelo would have been at least a half stone over the weight limit when he walked to the ring, probably more looking at him.

I'm not sold on Benevidez yet. On Paper he looks great and his KO rate looks great until you start digging into the names on his record. The only name on his record really is Dirrell and he was 35 or 36. For most of that fight Dirrell gave him all he could handle.


And yes Benevidez is green in a sense but at the same time he is a pro boxer eight years now so a lot of the handicap of not having had much of a career in the unpaid ranks should have been made up through his training by now.

Something about him screams good but overhyped to me. He can hit, but again there are questions over that until he lands on someone in their prime with genuine durability and that is able to hit back.


The Mexican comments that Canelo made had me laughing. Benevidez is American born and bred. He might have a Mexican father but he is American himself and when it suited Canelo in the past he dismissed Amercian born fighters who called themselves Mexican as not being Mexican.

As always with Canelo there will be some angle to exploit in order to face or not face someone.
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Old 21-11-21, 05:56 AM   #9184
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Was thinking the tempo of Crawford and Porter reminded me a little of Mayweather vs Hatton. All of a sudden Porter is check hooked face first into the ropes.
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Old 21-11-21, 09:56 AM   #9185
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What was Porters dad playing at there?
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Old 21-11-21, 01:33 PM   #9186
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What was Porters dad playing at there?
threw him under the bus a little. Don't k ow what went on in the preperation but Porter is a hard worker and seemed to be in good shape for the fight. He isn't the most talented ever but seems a great guy and always gives a lot.

Great stoppage BTW. Crawford is quality and underacknowledged.
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Old 25-11-21, 11:57 AM   #9187
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Bit random, but 51 years ago this month the second best middleweight of all time (Cuz I say so :P ) Monzon first become the undisputed middleweight champion of the world when he beat Nino Benvenuti. Benvenuti was very much the bookie's favourite going into the fight and was expected to outbox and out work Monzon. As a side note, Monzon had to wait until his 81st pro fight before getting his title shot and he took only seven years to rack up the previous 80 fights.

Could not mention the middleweights of yesteryear without a mention of this guy as is my want. Hagler also had his first crack at a real title in the month of November (nine years after Monszon's title tilt) and he had to wait until his 50th pro fight before getting his shot which ended in a controversial draw. Imagine a lot of today's guys having 50 or 81 fights let alone having to fight that much to get their first crack at a title.


Footage is a bit naff, but still plenty of great offensive and defensive work on show.




Hmmm Think later I might have a crack at doing a new top ten middleweights of all time but with a twist of sorts if anyone else if up to doing likewise. Would pick my best middleweight from each decade and only one allowed per decade and to allow a little bit of wiggle room, you can pick two from one decade and one from all the other decades.

Admittedly my own knowledge of the 40s and 50s is so so and pretty much based on limited footage and reading.


So would be

1940s
1950s
1960s
1970s
1980s
1990s
2000s
2010s
2020s
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Old 25-11-21, 12:41 PM   #9188
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Good idea for a thread Jaco.

50's followed by the 70's would be the easiest two to pick.

The rest could be tricky.

40's i'd have to pass on
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Old 25-11-21, 01:14 PM   #9189
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Good idea for a thread Jaco.

50's followed by the 70's would be the easiest two to pick.

The rest could be tricky.

40's i'd have to pass on


60s, 70s, 80s and 90s would all be very tough decades to only pick one from imo, hell even if you use one of those decades as the decade to pick two from it, it is still a tough one. 1990s is very very tough.


Although having said that I think my own picks for the 1970s and 1980s would be no surprise to anyone

1950s actually had a lot of very good middleweights and the 1940s had a lot of guys who would make lists and probably a lot more than I know of.

Am actually almost finished my own list lol
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Old 25-11-21, 01:38 PM   #9190
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How can you have Hagler as number 1 in the 80's when he got beaten by a retired welterweight

90's is intriguing. As much as i love Jones Jr it's hard to have him as the best middleweight of that decade. Hopkins came into his own in the 00's at the weight.
I wouldn't give Benn, Eubank or Collins much consideration.

Nunn straddled the 80s / 90s and McCallum lost his biggest fight to the boxer i'd consider the best middleweight of the 90s

James Toney
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Old 25-11-21, 02:44 PM   #9191
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Some guys, like Roy Jones Jnr, are not making my list due to me regarding them as being at their best a divison below or above middleweight despite them also being belt holders or fighting at 154lbs.



1940s - Charles Burley

Google Murderers’ Row to get a bit of history on him and a number of other black boxers who were avoided by white boxers. Seen some footage of him over the years and the guy seemed years ahead of his era in terms of technique, conditioning, heart and raw toughness


1950s - Sugar Ray Robinson

Third best middleweight of all time imo and best welter of all time imo. Guy had it all. Maybe the best pure pound for pound boxer of all time.


1960s - Nino Benvenuti

Stylish boxer who could fight when he had to go into the trenches. Looked a good technician from what I have seen of him on tape and online. Lovely body attacks, tight defence, moved well and always changing angles.


1970s - Carlos Monzon

Second best middleweight of all time for me. Horrible man outside the ring and simply amazing in a ring. Lacked in nothing in the ring and could box, brawl, or fight better than anyone else that shared his era.


1980s - Marvin Hagler

Best ever for me. Like Monzon he had it all and then a bit more. A lot of people will remember him for the high profile fights towards the end of his career (Duran, Mugabi, Roldon,Hearns and Leonard) when he was slowing down and brawled more, but in his prime he was beutiful to watch and was as slick as anyone who ever pulled on gloves.


1990s - James Toney

The 1990s gave me some pause as it had many all time great boxers that dabbled in the middleweight division but really made their names at other weights but am going with Toney. A wonderful technician with a masterful defense and a wizard at the dark arts.

2000s - Bernard Hopkins

Simply for continuining where he left off in the 1990s and then raising the wuality of who he took on


2010s - Gennady Golovkin

Quality boxer who could turn destroyer in a heartbeat. Fought those that would fight him and avoided by many.


2020s - Jermall Charlo

Probably should not have added the 2020s as too early into the decade. As I refuse to recognise Canelo as a middleweight champion I will go with the imo best of the rest in Charlo.



Second fighter from one decade to eventually make up an even ten

1940s - Marcel Cerdan


Looks amazing from the old footage out there of him. Died at the age of 33 in a plane crash but had already fought 114 times by then and only lost 4 times. Like Charles Burley he looks a man who was years ahead of his time with regards to how he moved, threw punches, defended etc
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Old 25-11-21, 02:48 PM   #9192
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Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
How can you have Hagler as number 1 in the 80's when he got beaten by a retired welterweight

90's is intriguing. As much as i love Jones Jr it's hard to have him as the best middleweight of that decade. Hopkins came into his own in the 00's at the weight.
I wouldn't give Benn, Eubank or Collins much consideration.

Nunn straddled the 80s / 90s and McCallum lost his biggest fight to the boxer i'd consider the best middleweight of the 90s

James Toney


Heretic. If Hagler had played Ming The Merciless then Flash Gordon would have gotten chinned and Dale Arden would have gotten laid. That's how good the man was
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Old 25-11-21, 05:17 PM   #9193
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Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Some guys, like Roy Jones Jnr, are not making my list due to me regarding them as being at their best a divison below or above middleweight despite them also being belt holders or fighting at 154lbs.



1940s - Charles Burley

Google Murderers’ Row to get a bit of history on him and a number of other black boxers who were avoided by white boxers. Seen some footage of him over the years and the guy seemed years ahead of his era in terms of technique, conditioning, heart and raw toughness


1950s - Sugar Ray Robinson

Third best middleweight of all time imo and best welter of all time imo. Guy had it all. Maybe the best pure pound for pound boxer of all time.


1960s - Nino Benvenuti

Stylish boxer who could fight when he had to go into the trenches. Looked a good technician from what I have seen of him on tape and online. Lovely body attacks, tight defence, moved well and always changing angles.


1970s - Carlos Monzon

Second best middleweight of all time for me. Horrible man outside the ring and simply amazing in a ring. Lacked in nothing in the ring and could box, brawl, or fight better than anyone else that shared his era.


1980s - Marvin Hagler

Best ever for me. Like Monzon he had it all and then a bit more. A lot of people will remember him for the high profile fights towards the end of his career (Duran, Mugabi, Roldon,Hearns and Leonard) when he was slowing down and brawled more, but in his prime he was beutiful to watch and was as slick as anyone who ever pulled on gloves.


1990s - James Toney

The 1990s gave me some pause as it had many all time great boxers that dabbled in the middleweight division but really made their names at other weights but am going with Toney. A wonderful technician with a masterful defense and a wizard at the dark arts.

2000s - Bernard Hopkins

Simply for continuining where he left off in the 1990s and then raising the wuality of who he took on


2010s - Gennady Golovkin

Quality boxer who could turn destroyer in a heartbeat. Fought those that would fight him and avoided by many.


2020s - Jermall Charlo

Probably should not have added the 2020s as too early into the decade. As I refuse to recognise Canelo as a middleweight champion I will go with the imo best of the rest in Charlo.
Hard to argue with any of those tbh.

I don't know enough about Charles Burley nor many boxers from that era so probably wouldn't have gone near the 1940s.

Calling Monzon a 'horrible man outside the ring' is a slight understatement. One of the absolute worst cunts to ever step into the ring would be more appropriate. Hard to lavish praise on such a monster.

2020s, you're right it's far too early to call.

Do welterweights next
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Old 25-11-21, 11:23 PM   #9194
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Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
Hard to argue with any of those tbh.

I don't know enough about Charles Burley nor many boxers from that era so probably wouldn't have gone near the 1940s.

Calling Monzon a 'horrible man outside the ring' is a slight understatement. One of the absolute worst cunts to ever step into the ring would be more appropriate. Hard to lavish praise on such a monster.

2020s, you're right it's far too early to call.

Do welterweights next

Do look into the fighters of the 1940s and the ones from the 1930s and 1920s as well. Some of the middleweights and heavyweights from those eras have amazing life stories along with their in ring exploits. Have built up a stupid collection of biographies etc of fighters from those eras and over the years have digested a silly amount of information on them at times.


Totally agree on Monzon outside the ring. Have commented on him in more detail before in this thread I think. Horrific "man" outside the ring with a long list of brutish savage behaviour to his bnbame and that is only the stuff that was made public.

Hard to dispute his ability inside the ring and for me he was someone I knew of as a boxer before I became old enough to understand just what a thug he actually was as a person.


Do welterweights next he says lol. I do occasionally have to do something productive with my time too you know.

Kind of hoped maybe a few others might join in with their own middleweight lists for the decades they wanted to do if they could not do one for each decade and it might spark a bit of debate when certain decades threw up a few options.



Welterweights would be tough for some decades. Tougher than the middleweights imo as I can think of a high number of quality welterweight for every decade I was alive and into boxing as well as loads of them from decades before I was born or aware of the welterweight division. Whereas for the middleweights the quality levels have dropped more in recent years compared to the welters.

Having said that, being only able to pick one per decade sort of makes it easier as well as it removes having to pick three from one decade like you would have to do if you were making a straight top tem list and ignoring decades.

Did have a bit of a think about it after typing the above though and just left this tab open on my pc for ages whilst I figured a few names out for myself and think I know my picks for the 1940s, 1950s (maybe), 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and one of either the 2000s or 2010s. The fact I named one of my middleweights as being the best welter of all time sort of has him nailed on to make this list too.


So I am up to maybe six out of ten so far in my head. To be honest I am a bit disappointed in some of my picks as they are very obvious ones. Maybe that says more about the welterweight division though and the fact it seems to throw up world class boxers in great numbers decade after decade after decade.
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Old 26-11-21, 11:47 AM   #9195
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Do welterweights next he says lol. I do occasionally have to do something productive with my time too you know.

Kind of hoped maybe a few others might join in with their own middleweight lists for the decades they wanted to do if they could not do one for each decade and it might spark a bit of debate when certain decades threw up a few options.
No you don't

As for debate i think if you opened the debate up to say top 5 from each weight category per decade or top 5 boxers per decade you may get more discourse.

Top one may be too narrow as there's generally a consensus as to who the best boxer at X weight is over a particular decade.

You wouldn't get any arguing against you that Lewis was the best heavy of the 90s. However some may if you also included him as a top 5 heavy in the 00's

Not sure if you post on any of the boxing forums but some of the best threads are in the historic sections discussing exactly what we've been discussing.
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Old 26-11-21, 12:02 PM   #9196
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No you don't

As for debate i think if you opened the debate up to say top 5 from each weight category per decade or top 5 boxers per decade you may get more discourse.

Top one may be too narrow as there's generally a consensus as to who the best boxer at X weight is over a particular decade.

You wouldn't get any arguing against you that Lewis was the best heavy of the 90s. However some may if you also included him as a top 5 heavy in the 00's

Not sure if you post on any of the boxing forums but some of the best threads are in the historic sections discussing exactly what we've been discussing.


Up to people what lists they make really or if people wanted to do something different list wise. But given you are the only person to reply it would appear lists or discussing fighters from other eras is not going anywhere


And yeah I post on some boxing forums and have for years. I use a very different user name though I have noticed who from here posts elsewhere as some use the exact same posts on RAWK and on dedicated boxing forums.
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Old 26-11-21, 03:21 PM   #9197
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Originally Posted by spud_gun View Post
How can you have Hagler as number 1 in the 80's when he got beaten by a retired welterweight

90's is intriguing. As much as i love Jones Jr it's hard to have him as the best middleweight of that decade. Hopkins came into his own in the 00's at the weight.
I wouldn't give Benn, Eubank or Collins much consideration.

Nunn straddled the 80s / 90s and McCallum lost his biggest fight to the boxer i'd consider the best middleweight of the 90s

James Toney
Spud, are you serious?... Sugar Ray had been avoiding talk of a fight with Hagler for years prior to their fight as knew a prime Hagler would finish him so decides to do so after Hagler came off some brutal fights & had left everything in his tank in those brawls! No wonder Hagler retired after that match with Sugar Ray as had nothing left to give.
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Old 26-11-21, 03:26 PM   #9198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco_Pastorious View Post
Some guys, like Roy Jones Jnr, are not making my list due to me regarding them as being at their best a divison below or above middleweight despite them also being belt holders or fighting at 154lbs.



1940s - Charles Burley

Google Murderers’ Row to get a bit of history on him and a number of other black boxers who were avoided by white boxers. Seen some footage of him over the years and the guy seemed years ahead of his era in terms of technique, conditioning, heart and raw toughness


1950s - Sugar Ray Robinson

Third best middleweight of all time imo and best welter of all time imo. Guy had it all. Maybe the best pure pound for pound boxer of all time.


1960s - Nino Benvenuti

Stylish boxer who could fight when he had to go into the trenches. Looked a good technician from what I have seen of him on tape and online. Lovely body attacks, tight defence, moved well and always changing angles.


1970s - Carlos Monzon

Second best middleweight of all time for me. Horrible man outside the ring and simply amazing in a ring. Lacked in nothing in the ring and could box, brawl, or fight better than anyone else that shared his era.


1980s - Marvin Hagler

Best ever for me. Like Monzon he had it all and then a bit more. A lot of people will remember him for the high profile fights towards the end of his career (Duran, Mugabi, Roldon,Hearns and Leonard) when he was slowing down and brawled more, but in his prime he was beutiful to watch and was as slick as anyone who ever pulled on gloves.


1990s - James Toney

The 1990s gave me some pause as it had many all time great boxers that dabbled in the middleweight division but really made their names at other weights but am going with Toney. A wonderful technician with a masterful defense and a wizard at the dark arts.

2000s - Bernard Hopkins

Simply for continuining where he left off in the 1990s and then raising the wuality of who he took on


2010s - Gennady Golovkin

Quality boxer who could turn destroyer in a heartbeat. Fought those that would fight him and avoided by many.


2020s - Jermall Charlo

Probably should not have added the 2020s as too early into the decade. As I refuse to recognise Canelo as a middleweight champion I will go with the imo best of the rest in Charlo.



Second fighter from one decade to eventually make up an even ten

1940s - Marcel Cerdan


Looks amazing from the old footage out there of him. Died at the age of 33 in a plane crash but had already fought 114 times by then and only lost 4 times. Like Charles Burley he looks a man who was years ahead of his time with regards to how he moved, threw punches, defended etc
That's a sound list! All those fighters would have done at least 50 matches before being considered for a shot at the championship or retiring... insane! Nowadays, it's at least 10 matches before having a shot at titles then retiring with a few bob.
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Old 26-11-21, 04:15 PM   #9199
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Spud, are you serious?... Sugar Ray had been avoiding talk of a fight with Hagler for years prior to their fight as knew a prime Hagler would finish him so decides to do so after Hagler came off some brutal fights & had left everything in his tank in those brawls! No wonder Hagler retired after that match with Sugar Ray as had nothing left to give.
No, i wasn't being serious.
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Old 26-11-21, 04:37 PM   #9200
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No, i wasn't being serious.
Muppet!
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