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Old 31-12-19, 02:42 PM   #561
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Define 'too forensic'? Isnt that the point of VAR?

Its either on, or it isnt.
Did you read the article?

"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand."
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Old 31-12-19, 04:37 PM   #562
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Then it's all a bit pointless and silly then.

Imagine if Hawkeye in tennis said 'ah, he tried and it was so close to the line that it may as well stand' and just ignore the technology. Worra load of shit that would be
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Old 31-12-19, 04:39 PM   #563
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Well, no. And no.

Read this thread to see why.
Actually, it's yes and yes until you apply the 'it couldn't be seen without 12 camera angles' logic.

It really is either onside or offside to a point
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Old 31-12-19, 05:02 PM   #564
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Then it's all a bit pointless and silly then.

Imagine if Hawkeye in tennis said 'ah, he tried and it was so close to the line that it may as well stand' and just ignore the technology. Worra load of shit that would be
If the technology isn't up to that job, then yes, exactly that.

But it is up to that more simple job (deciding if a ball is on or over a line), so it's not really a comparative analogy.

The more accurate comparison would be comparing the tennis one to the goal line technology. And nobody has a problem with either of those.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:06 PM   #565
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Actually, it's yes and yes until you apply the 'it couldn't be seen without 12 camera angles' logic.

It really is either onside or offside to a point
The point being missed again Norbs.

In the real world, it is either on side or off side. Correct.

The technology isn't giving us that information though. It's an approximation.

And if it's an approximation, then you can't start making decisions based within the margins of error inheritent in the system.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:10 PM   #566
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Then it's all a bit pointless and silly then.

Imagine if Hawkeye in tennis said 'ah, he tried and it was so close to the line that it may as well stand' and just ignore the technology. Worra load of shit that would be
It's more like saying the radar camera thinks you were doing 71mph however since we attribute a greater margin of error to the technology we will not prosecute you.

However, let's be real. People are not REALLY annoyed that close offsides get given as offside. They are just annoyed it takes so long, is shrouded in secrecy until the decision is delivered, and affects the way the officials behave during play. Those are the issues that need to be resolved, everything else is noise.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:15 PM   #567
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It's more like saying the radar camera thinks you were doing 71mph however since we attribute a greater margin of error to the technology we will not prosecute you.

However, let's be real. People are not REALLY annoyed that close offsides get given as offside. They are just annoyed it takes so long, is shrouded in secrecy until the decision is delivered, and affects the way the officials behave during play. Those are the issues that need to be resolved, everything else is noise.
Pretty sure generally get a 10% or margin with speed cameras.

You won't get done at 32 mph in a 30mph zone. But you will at 33. For example.

But anyway, people are also pissed off at armpits and other previously unheard of footballing parts of the body now being called offside too.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:17 PM   #568
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Then it's all a bit pointless and silly then.

Imagine if Hawkeye in tennis said 'ah, he tried and it was so close to the line that it may as well stand' and just ignore the technology. Worra load of shit that would be
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Actually, it's yes and yes until you apply the 'it couldn't be seen without 12 camera angles' logic.

It really is either onside or offside to a point
The Hawkeye tennis thing is more comparable to goal line technology than the offside rule.

Offside isnít really about being either side of a line. Itís about the attacker not having the advantage of hanging around behind the opposing defence.

Having an armpit or big toe 1mm ahead is still offside in a pedantic kind of way, but itís not actually giving the attacker any sort of advantage. So given the purpose of the rule, why does this need to be so severely enforced?

Level has always been considered to be Ďoní and now suddenly it isnít.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:22 PM   #569
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Pretty sure generally get a 10% or margin with speed cameras.

You won't get done at 32 mph in a 30mph zone. But you will at 33. For example.

But anyway, people are also pissed off at armpits and other previously unheard of footballing parts of the body now being called offside too.
Yeah exactly. I remember hearing 10% too.
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Old 31-12-19, 05:50 PM   #570
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It's more like saying the radar camera thinks you were doing 71mph however since we attribute a greater margin of error to the technology we will not prosecute you.

However, let's be real. People are not REALLY annoyed that close offsides get given as offside. They are just annoyed it takes so long, is shrouded in secrecy until the decision is delivered, and affects the way the officials behave during play. Those are the issues that need to be resolved, everything else is noise.
Disagree there. Fans, players, coaches, pundits are all definitely annoyed that what would have been previously considered as level is now being given as offside.

We thought VAR was going to help correct clear mistakes. None of those 5 goals scored at the weekend would be have been considered as mistakes last season (had they stood) as they were all essentially level. Not one of them was a clear offside.

Had Pukki scored the same goal last season and it it was disallowed by the on field officials, everyone wouldíve been saying thatís exactly that type of thing VAR will fix.
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Old 31-12-19, 06:06 PM   #571
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Disagree there. Fans, players, coaches, pundits are all definitely annoyed that what would have been previously considered as level is now being given as offside.



We thought VAR was going to help correct clear mistakes. None of those 5 goals scored at the weekend would be have been considered as mistakes last season (had they stood) as they were all essentially level. Not one of them was a clear offside.



Had Pukki scored the same goal last season and it it was disallowed by the on field officials, everyone wouldíve been saying thatís exactly that type of thing VAR will fix.
Fans: VAR please sort these fucking offside mistakes out for us

VAR: catches loads of offsides that might have been let slide

Fans: Yeah but let some of them go like
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Old 31-12-19, 06:24 PM   #572
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I have a very easy fix

Use the same technology that's used for the ball crossing the line. Put sensors into all the players boots (similarly to what's in the ball).

If a players foot (sensor) is in an offside position - then the player is offside. None of this any part of the body that call play the ball lark.


that way, technology can make a completely unbias decision - we know contact on the ball from the sensor in the ball and we can tell which foot is furthest up the pitch. Completely emotionless and optionless decision
I don't think that technology for something like this exists, and would be much more complicated than you suggest to implement. Firstly you would need to calibrate the sensor in every players boot to the monitoring system in the stadium, this would need to be done for every player in the matchday squad, that's 36 players, or 72 boots all of which need to be accurately synchronized to report data at the same time so that you can map the players at the same moment. This would be a nightmare to set up every game and with so many sensors there is a good chance something goes wrong. What happens if players need to change their boots or if the sensor gets damaged.

Then there is how you actually go about determining when the ball is played, you seem to suggest some sensor determining when the boot and ball are in contact, what happens if the ball is played with a head, chest or knee etc?
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Old 31-12-19, 06:28 PM   #573
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Ok, so you have sensors in boots but what are you using as a directional reference to determine 'in front'?


A geo locator like GPS but you can setup a local now accurate system across the pitch
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Old 31-12-19, 06:31 PM   #574
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This stupidity of when the ref blows the whistle also needs looking at...



If he'd have blown before manes goal had crossed the line, blowing for the "handball" off lallama's shoulder, then apparently it wouldnt have been a goal even if VAR had said it wasnt handball.



Fucking madness really.


In that case it's about training the referees.

If he blows the whistle the goal cannot stand because once the referee blows the whistle players might stop playing because the game has been stopped.

You can't allow a walk in goal because the referee made a mistake blowing the whistle
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Old 31-12-19, 06:57 PM   #575
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Fans: VAR please sort these fucking offside mistakes out for us

VAR: catches loads of offsides that might have been let slide

Fans: Yeah but let some of them go like
Like I said though, these examples were never considered to be mistakes.

This is what the IFAB are talking about.
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Old 01-01-20, 01:46 PM   #576
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And it strikes again 🙄
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Old 01-01-20, 01:56 PM   #577
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I mean, for fuck sake.

Beyond fucking ridiculous.
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Old 01-01-20, 02:14 PM   #578
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https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/...54287134793728

I mean, for fuck sake.

Beyond fucking ridiculous.
Thats just fucked up
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Old 01-01-20, 02:23 PM   #579
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A geo locator like GPS but you can setup a local now accurate system across the pitch
Every player would need at least 4 sensors and they would need to be built in to boots. Not practical really.
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Old 01-01-20, 02:35 PM   #580
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https://twitter.com/btsportfootball/...54287134793728

I mean, for fuck sake.

Beyond fucking ridiculous.
Offside because he wears size 12's and the other guys in size 9's
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Old 01-01-20, 10:20 PM   #581
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When growing up as a young boy I used to think offside was if the attackers front foot was in front of the defenders closest foot. I demand this change.
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Old 02-01-20, 01:00 PM   #582
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It sure if this clears it up or make sit more complex. Seems as if itís a tight call the ref should take a look at whether he is over turning and go and look at the monitor rather than let VAR go forensic.

Quote:
The International Football Association Board's general secretary Lukas Brud said last week that officials on the pitch and monitoring cameras should not become "too forensic" over offsides or any other decisions.

"Clear and obvious still remains - it's an important principle. There should not be a lot of time spent to find something marginal," Brud told the PA news agency. "If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.

"If something is not clear on the first sight, then it's not obvious and it shouldn't be considered. Looking at one camera angle is one thing but looking at 15, trying to find something that was potentially not even there, this was not the idea of the VAR principle. It should be clear and obvious.

"What we really need to stress is that clear and obvious applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee," he added.

"In theory one millimetre offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...d-var-21196526
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Old 02-01-20, 01:27 PM   #583
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It sure if this clears it up or make sit more complex. Seems as if itís a tight call the ref should take a look at whether he is over turning and go and look at the monitor rather than let VAR go forensic.



https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...d-var-21196526
Same quotes as from the BBC article a couple of days ago.

I think actually following these guidelines would be a massive step in the right direction. Doesn't even necessarily mean the ref having to go to the monitor, just that the VAR officials should be advising if there's a clear error from the replays instead of going forensic to find a 1mm offside heel or armpit.
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Old 02-01-20, 01:42 PM   #584
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Same quotes as from the BBC article a couple of days ago.

I think actually following these guidelines would be a massive step in the right direction. Doesn't even necessarily mean the ref having to go to the monitor, just that the VAR officials should be advising if there's a clear error from the replays instead of going forensic to find a 1mm offside heel or armpit.


Basically as soon as they feel the need to zoom in they can instead say Ďitís not clear and obviousí decision stands...

It doesnít seem all that difficult?
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Old 02-01-20, 01:53 PM   #585
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Basically as soon as they feel the need to zoom in they can instead say Ďitís not clear and obviousí decision stands...

It doesnít seem all that difficult?


The refs in the VAR room are making a complete mess of how it's intended to be used. Are they deliberately trying to sabotage VAR, or just think they know better?

IFAB should be intervening immediately instead of letting this continue as it is for another 2 months.
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Old 03-01-20, 12:20 PM   #586
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Basically as soon as they feel the need to zoom in they can instead say Ďitís not clear and obviousí decision stands...

It doesnít seem all that difficult?
And we can go back to berating decisions that cost us games, yay
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Old 08-01-20, 12:41 AM   #587
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Pereyra red card overturned. Surely VAR should have done so?
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Old 11-01-20, 11:12 AM   #588
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Just saw the Rice handball and can't see why he's moaning about it. Defender tries to head it clear and Rice gains a huge advantage with the ball coming off his hand. Clear cut surely
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Old 11-01-20, 11:23 AM   #589
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Just saw the Rice handball and can't see why he's moaning about it. Defender tries to head it clear and Rice gains a huge advantage with the ball coming off his hand. Clear cut surely
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Old 11-01-20, 01:39 PM   #590
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Probably because the rule is utter bollocks. An unfair and convoluted rule to tackle a problem that didn't exist. But according to the rule, the VAR made the right call.
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Old 11-01-20, 02:55 PM   #591
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Yellow card overturned to red for Aubameyang by VAR.

Cunts challenge actually, but hilarious passage of play. Topped off by the challenge being shown to the fans when the decision comes in.
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Old 11-01-20, 03:07 PM   #592
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The reaction of the sky pundits was ludicrous. "Don't think there was enough for a booking". Watch replay.. "yeah there was". Then "Don't think there was enough force to upgrade it to a red card"... Red card given.
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Old 11-01-20, 03:22 PM   #593
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The reaction of the sky pundits was ludicrous. "Don't think there was enough for a booking". Watch replay.. "yeah there was". Then "Don't think there was enough force to upgrade it to a red card"... Red card given.


That was great. Especially when the off camera ref was brought in agreeing it was a yellow.

Bring him back after the VAR check - 'Yeah. Was a red'

They haven't a fucking clue.
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Old 11-01-20, 03:25 PM   #594
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That was great. Especially when the off camera ref was brought in agreeing it was a yellow.

Bring him back after the VAR check - 'Yeah. Was a red'

They haven't a fucking clue.
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Old 11-01-20, 04:09 PM   #595
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The incident

https://streamja.com/Lmw1
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Old 11-01-20, 04:32 PM   #596
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Jeez thats bad
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Old 11-01-20, 05:00 PM   #597
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Looking at that it looks like it was very close to breaking. Extremely poor challenge
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Old 11-01-20, 11:11 PM   #598
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Ouch. Red every day of the week
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Old 17-01-20, 03:01 PM   #599
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Premier League referees have been told to stop fucking about and start using pitchside monitors for decisions where it is felt they should have the final say.

The Professional Game Match Officials Limited, the body that manages elite (lolz) referees, has issued the guidance.

The only time the monitors have been used this season is by Michael Oliver in an FA Cup third-round tie between Crystal Palace and Derby County.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51145986
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Old 18-01-20, 09:27 AM   #600
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Thought Stretford Mike Riley had decreed otherwise, the massive cunt.
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