It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

est1892
Old 08-12-20, 10:34 AM   #841
rodo
Shankly
 
rodo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
For me it was debatable, and possibly a penalty, but the fact it took so long and that 20 looks at it doesn't really decisively tell you one way or another should surely mean that the original decision doesn't get overturned. It was in no way clear and obvious.
__________________
Oh I say his vision there was lovely
rodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-20, 09:07 PM   #842
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 43,508
Does anyone still like this pile of shite?
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-20, 09:10 PM   #843
McDermotX
Paisley
 
McDermotX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,213
Load of bollocks

Mancs seem to get on well with it though. Doing wonders for their pens.
__________________
"I will make the boys feel your support"
Jurgen Klopp June 2020

Last edited by McDermotX; 09-12-20 at 09:16 PM.
McDermotX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-20, 09:15 PM   #844
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 43,508
Somehow it seems to be worse in Europe than the PL
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 09:27 AM   #845
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 42,462
They’ve even made a mess of hand ball.

The origin of handball is what defines the game. You cannot use your hand to catch and manipulate the ball.

The things they are giving hand ball for now are mental.

I literally don’t see how it’s difficult. Micing up the refs and getting a reason is totally crucial.

So for the one last night he could have said, it’s hard to say the ball was near both players hands however there was no intention, so the goal stands.

They just seem to have lost the original reason for most of the rules in football. Offside - ruined (no level is on, benefit to the attacker), penalties - ruined (keeper has to stay on line), hand ball ruined (forensic analysis of decision rather than common sense approach).
__________________
Create a memory

Crowdfund

Vlog
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 09:45 AM   #846
Zapater
Dalglish
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,279
I hate it. The pauses are bad enough, but they're killing the game. So many good goals are chalked off every week. Then they find a million reasons to give penalties in ridiculous situations. It's like they won't be happy until every goal is a penalty. Teams will set up tactics to win penalties more and more as this will become the greatest percentage of goals. Build up play, individual brilliance, passing, long shots, clever finishes could all become ancient history if they don't do something fast.

It's actually ridiculous. I thought that there were too many penalties previously, it's getting even more ridiculous. Bruno Fernandes takes about 2 per game. He could finish his career with record breaking goalscoring stats with less than 5% of them coming from open play. Will quickly make the game unwatchable.
Zapater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 09:47 AM   #847
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 43,508
With the Minamino 'goal' last night did the ball even hit any part of Mane's arm? I was watching it on my phone so the screen size was tiny, so it wasn't easy to tell, but it looked to me like it didn't hit Mane's arm but did hit the defender's.

But explanations are essential because a couple of the incidents last night no one had a clue what was even being looked at offsides, fouls or handballs. The system is a farce.

I didn't really care about the result last night but despite that the VAR system really pissed me off.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

Last edited by Exiled_red; 10-12-20 at 09:51 AM.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 10:09 AM   #848
RichC
Meh
 
RichC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 35,513
Football for me at present is gone, the joy has been taken out of it with this absolute horror show of implementing var. The tech itself I'm sure works as to how it's supposed to it's the human intervention that's got this so wrong. No consistency pretty much game to game and you some some incidents being effectively re-reffed to the nth degree whilst others are just let slide.

I think if football continues down this path it'll self destruct as more and more fans will switch off from it as it's losing the passion and instant highs & lows football gives.
RichC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 10:31 AM   #849
Maxiedge
Shankly
 
Maxiedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,236
I hate VAR, I want it changed but last night was not an issue me. I think it was just unfortunate that we had a spate of incidents that were unusual and hard to decipher. Thought VAR did well in the end to give the correct decisions.

Also thought the ref was very interesting too. He wasn't your typical CL ref that would blow for every minor foul. If he felt a player has gone down too easily and could stay on his feet he would let play go on. Yes, we should had have a few fouls go our way but he did the same for them too and imo, that's the type of refereeing we should have more of to stop the simulation.
Maxiedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 10:51 AM   #850
elrichio86
Types slowly
 
elrichio86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,501
For me, the problem is that its being over-used. If it was saved for only overturning clear and obvious mistakes, as we told when it was originally implemented, then that would be fine. But its being used to pickup on every last little infringment, many of which you couldn't possibly expect a referee to have seen.
elrichio86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 11:31 AM   #851
Roboklopp
Cuboid Humanoid
 
Roboklopp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,525
Over used, used badly, inconsistently and with no clear rationale or accountability. It’s fucking wank and is killing the game. All the adrenaline and joy gone. Zapater makes some interesting points about change of tactic but yeah I might be gone by then.
__________________
3 Cups and the Champions League.
Roboklopp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 12:33 PM   #852
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by elrichio86 View Post
For me, the problem is that its being over-used. If it was saved for only overturning clear and obvious mistakes, as we told when it was originally implemented, then that would be fine. But its being used to pickup on every last little infringment, many of which you couldn't possibly expect a referee to have seen.
Which is fair enough, but it seems to get plenty of clear and obvious ones wrong, eg the utd penalty the other day. If it can't even do those consistently, then bin it
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 01:32 PM   #853
Jaco_Pastorious
Paisley
 
Jaco_Pastorious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by danperkins View Post
VAR has been an absolute disaster. The only thing it has highlighted which we already knew, is just how poor the standard of officiating in the premier league is. Ref's dropping a massive bollock in nearly every game and too arrogant to correct themselves.

Think this is probably as close to the truth as one can get.

A VAR system in itself is a very good thing, as has been shown in many other sports that use a VAR set up.

In rugby it is generally a quick, clean and very effective system. Calls are made quickly with not a lot of disruption to the game and generally (from what I can tell) the calls seem to be correct.

So why can a similar effective system not be implemented in football, specifically the EPL? Seems to me it boils down to the people using the VAR set up rather than the system itself.

In theory a VAR system should make it almost impossible for a truly bad call to be made because you have the ability to review and then over rule that bad call after it has been made. The game should be more error free and less games should be getting impacted by goals and incidents being called incorrectly.

The problem is, imo, that there is and will be no stomach for an overhaul in the human side of VAR unless there are financial ramifications like big drop offs in revenus due to people turning away from the sport. But even something like that would be glacial in terms of how slow it would happen if at all as there will always be people lining up to buy the product and to sponsor the product and a product is very much what it is now.
__________________
Oh pale rider, you're in need of a hella talking to
Why don't you leave me be? I got things to do
Oh pale rider, the missus has it out for you
And if she sees you here, she gonna cut you through
Jaco_Pastorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 01:44 PM   #854
spud_gun
Paisley
 
spud_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,101
Here's the Minamino 'goal'

spud_gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 02:13 PM   #855
Buzzo
Donald Buzzworth
 
Buzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 42,462
I've no idea how that wasnt given.

Shame for Minamino also, as getting a CL winner would have been good for him.
__________________
Create a memory

Crowdfund

Vlog
Buzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 02:34 PM   #856
Norbs
Big Girl's Blouse
 
Norbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 32,901
Not seeing a great angle but it looks like Sadio's head, Sadio's arm, their defender's arm
Norbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 03:47 PM   #857
ChesterDave
Paisley
 
ChesterDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 24,587
difficult without a good video app to pause the right frame but a quick pause/play/pause click around 1.45 shows it goes nowhere near Mane's hand.

They've utterly balls'd it up.
__________________
70 points to go!
ChesterDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 05:35 PM   #858
Kenneth
Dan Ashcroft
 
Kenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 51,146
__________________
Kick VAR out of football.
Kenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 05:41 PM   #859
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 43,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiedge View Post
I hate VAR, I want it changed but last night was not an issue me. I think it was just unfortunate that we had a spate of incidents that were unusual and hard to decipher. Thought VAR did well in the end to give the correct decisions.

Also thought the ref was very interesting too. He wasn't your typical CL ref that would blow for every minor foul. If he felt a player has gone down too easily and could stay on his feet he would let play go on. Yes, we should had have a few fouls go our way but he did the same for them too and imo, that's the type of refereeing we should have more of to stop the simulation.
It may be that it got the decisions right (I still can't see the Mane handball). It might have been unusual that there were so many complicated VAR calls, but I think we are seeing at least one of these complicated or difficult to explain decisions in every 2 or 3 games we play, and to be honest I don't watch enough non-LFC games to say if this is the case for everyone but I assume it must be. I see absolutely no reason for the officials not to explain the decisions. eg for the penalty something like: "we have reviewed the offside decision and found that the forward was in an onside position, he was subsequently fouled by the GK so a penalty was awarded"
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

Last edited by Exiled_red; 10-12-20 at 06:35 PM.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-20, 05:45 PM   #860
Exiled_red
Paisley
 
Exiled_red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 43,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by elrichio86 View Post
For me, the problem is that its being over-used. If it was saved for only overturning clear and obvious mistakes, as we told when it was originally implemented, then that would be fine. But its being used to pickup on every last little infringment, many of which you couldn't possibly expect a referee to have seen.
Clear and obvious has long gone we are looking at tiny infringements essentially any contact in the box (if you go down) is a penalty which is not just a VAR issue it is a clear change of the rules, the same is true for level in offside calls and so on, it is changing the game and not for the better.
__________________
The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.
Exiled_red is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  est1892 > Football > General Football

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:08 AM.


Our Current Balance versus Target. Please help us: (Donate)

Kindly Hosted By DigitalWales
Any posts remain the responsibility of the poster. Neither est1892, its Owners nor any company affiliated will be held responsible from any disputes arising from these posts. The views raised are not necessarily those held by the website or its owners.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.