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Old 30-11-20, 10:28 PM   #7961
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Losing Allison would have been infinitely worse- excluding penalties, we conceded 4 goals in the 9 games that VVD missed- west ham, city and 2 against Atalanta... we conceded 9 goals in the 3 games that Allison missed!

It’s a looong road ahead, but I think we’ve coped really well without VVD and Gomez so far.
Reports say he's got the Rona..
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Old 30-11-20, 10:53 PM   #7962
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Losing Allison would have been infinitely worse- excluding penalties, we conceded 4 goals in the 9 games that VVD missed- west ham, city and 2 against Atalanta... we conceded 9 goals in the 3 games that Allison missed!

It’s a looong road ahead, but I think we’ve coped really well without VVD and Gomez so far.
In terms of balance to squad - not being able to "missed" or having adequate cover..........no VVD=

Overplaying Gomez - injured
Overplaying Matip - Injured
Overplaying Fab (moved to CB) - Injured
Overplaying Midfielders to compensate for Fab - Naby, Hendo, Milner all injured

Of course Thiago missing also doesn't help but most stems from VVD not being available
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Old 01-12-20, 01:49 AM   #7963
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In terms of balance to squad - not being able to "missed" or having adequate cover..........no VVD=

Overplaying Gomez - injured
Overplaying Matip - Injured
Overplaying Fab (moved to CB) - Injured
Overplaying Midfielders to compensate for Fab - Naby, Hendo, Milner all injured

Of course Thiago missing also doesn't help but most stems from VVD not being available

In the 2 league games games that Allison was out we dropped 5 points...

In the 5 league games that ALL those players were out, we dropped 4...

Also, think you are stretching a bit saying that VVD being out caused all those injuries...
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Old 01-12-20, 02:30 AM   #7964
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Ali is by far our most important player. When he isn't there, we are fucked.

If he wasn't out v Atletico last year, we'd have been in the CL semis.
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Old 01-12-20, 07:14 AM   #7965
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In the 2 league games games that Allison was out we dropped 5 points...

In the 5 league games that ALL those players were out, we dropped 4...

Also, think you are stretching a bit saying that VVD being out caused all those injuries...
I think VVD being out caused a snowball effect to over play others and it cascaded from there. I do agree that Ali being out has a bigger impact though.......Adrien is nowhere near the levels on the back ups to VVD
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Old 17-12-20, 11:12 PM   #7966
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Thought Hansi was a shoe in tbh



Last edited by Irishnev; 17-12-20 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 06-01-21, 10:21 AM   #7967
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Jurgen is going to start earning his money now. He has a mini slump to correct, he has a couple of players whose heads need focusing and he needs a workable solution for the defense for the run in. Hopefully, he will have the confidence and swagger back soon.
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Old 06-01-21, 10:41 AM   #7968
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We've had two mini slumps in recent memory. They have usually been around Feb (?). I still don't see any cause for concern at all. There is nothing unusual about anything that has happened the past 3 games. With a bit more luck, we would have scraped a couple of wins and a draw.
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Old 06-01-21, 10:49 AM   #7969
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Jurgen is going to start earning his money now. He has a mini slump to correct, he has a couple of players whose heads need focusing and he needs a workable solution for the defense for the run in. Hopefully, he will have the confidence and swagger back soon.
The decision about who plays CB with Fabinho in the Man Utd game is going to be huge, hopefully Matip is back, fit and able to play to his normal level. But it is still questionable whether he will be available.

If Matip isn't available does he go with Henderson as he did against Southampton and lose him from the midfield? Or go with one of the younger less experienced guys who are CB's by trade, and if so does he go with Williams or Phillips?
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Old 06-01-21, 10:55 AM   #7970
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i think he was playing Henderson in defense to give him some experience playing next to Fabinho - with the united game in mind. That is the only explanation I can see because Williams and Phillips were both on the bench and therefore available to play.

Gini and Thiago will play fine together. It is the other position in midfield that he needs to really think about for the United game. Oxlade did two thirds of fuck all against Southampton. Not sure he will be the right guy to play v United.

Shaqiri didn't exactly stake his claim either.

Not sure he will start with Milner because Milner probably won't last the full game against United.

Perhaps Minamino behind the front 3???
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Old 06-01-21, 12:00 PM   #7971
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i think he was playing Henderson in defense to give him some experience playing next to Fabinho - with the united game in mind. That is the only explanation I can see because Williams and Phillips were both on the bench and therefore available to play.

Gini and Thiago will play fine together. It is the other position in midfield that he needs to really think about for the United game. Oxlade did two thirds of fuck all against Southampton. Not sure he will be the right guy to play v United.

Shaqiri didn't exactly stake his claim either.

Not sure he will start with Milner because Milner probably won't last the full game against United.

Perhaps Minamino behind the front 3???
That was my thought too at the start of the game, not really sure how well it worked for the team overall. I agree that Gini and Thiago are fine as 2 of a midfield three but I think in an ideal world particularly against one of the top sides you would probably want Henderson or Fabinho in there as the third CM. If they are both playing CB then obviously that doesn't happen. The question for me is really does a midfield 3 of Henderson, Gini, Thiago and a CB pairing of Fabinho and Williams/Phillips give us a better balance than a CB pairing of Fabinho and Henderson, with a midfield of Gini, Thiago and someone else?
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Old 06-01-21, 01:43 PM   #7972
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If Matip is not fit (which I won't hold my breath for) then we are stuck between a rock and a hard place vs United. Either play Hendo & Fab at CB and lose that drive and security in midfield or play one of the young lads beside Fab and Hendo back in midfield but then run the risk of the young lad getting destroyed vs the pace of United. The problem with Philips or Williams is that neither or them are quick and imo is Joel is not fit, Hendo will be at CB. We really need Matip back ffs, it's a huge game and a huge game psychologically.

What I will say is that Thiago won't play that poorly again and it was a mistake to play Ox and Thiago in the same midfield as both are nowhere near match fit and it showed. I doubt Trent will ever play as poorly as that again even if his general performances this season have fallen off a cliff & at some stage Mane & Mo will kick in again.

Bit of a double edged sword for Klopp to contend with, we have just been so unlucky this season and we can all see that apart from a few game here and there, the balance of the team is off.
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Old 06-01-21, 01:52 PM   #7973
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If Matip is not fit (which I won't hold my breath for) then we are stuck between a rock and a hard place vs United. Either play Hendo & Fab at CB and lose that drive and security in midfield or play one of the young lads beside Fab and Hendo back in midfield but then run the risk of the young lad getting destroyed vs the pace of United. The problem with Philips or Williams is that neither or them are quick and imo is Joel is not fit, Hendo will be at CB. We really need Matip back ffs, it's a huge game and a huge game psychologically.

What I will say is that Thiago won't play that poorly again and it was a mistake to play Ox and Thiago in the same midfield as both are nowhere near match fit and it showed. I doubt Trent will ever play as poorly as that again even if his general performances this season have fallen off a cliff & at some stage Mane & Mo will kick in again.

Bit of a double edged sword for Klopp to contend with, we have just been so unlucky this season and we can all see that apart from a few game here and there, the balance of the team is off.
Some good points... personally, I think we'd be better with one of the young guns partnering Fab as CB and bring Hendo back into the middle of the park - especially against United. I think Thiago lost his way in the last game due to fitness but also - and more importantly - because he didn't have Hendo doing the grunt work and freeing him up to make those creative, defence-splitting passes... We'll get more from the front three with a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Gini too.. and won't be as reliant on (aimless) crosses into the box by TAA and Robbo...
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Old 06-01-21, 01:55 PM   #7974
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:18 PM   #7975
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Some good points... personally, I think we'd be better with one of the young guns partnering Fab as CB and bring Hendo back into the middle of the park - especially against United. I think Thiago lost his way in the last game due to fitness but also - and more importantly - because he didn't have Hendo doing the grunt work and freeing him up to make those creative, defence-splitting passes... We'll get more from the front three with a midfield of Hendo, Thiago and Gini too.. and won't be as reliant on (aimless) crosses into the box by TAA and Robbo...
it's more balanced having Hendo back in that midfield. Him and Gini doing the work and Thiago applying the craft which we desperately need in central areas. Matip back would solve the issue but we just can't rely on that happening. The choice now is who do you choose Williams or Philips?
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Old 06-01-21, 02:19 PM   #7976
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I agree I think I would play Henderson in midfield and one of Williams or Phillips at CB. I feel that regardless of how good the guys in midfield are we need to have a Henderson or Fabinho type player in there (particularly for the big games). On paper Gini, Thiago and Jones/Ox looks decent but it's not got the right balance, I would also worry about the lack of game time that Thiago and Ox have had recently. Henderson in midfield offers protection to the back line and even if the CB pairing itself is slightly weaker as a whole I think it makes us a stronger team, than playing both him and Fabinho at CB, with less protection.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:19 PM   #7977
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Could consider Milner as CB?
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Old 06-01-21, 02:21 PM   #7978
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
with Hendo, Gini and Thiago in there you would like to think that's 3 players who can press and challenge for possession.

Fabinho could very well provide that long accurate ball to the front lads, although we haven't really seen that yet from him at CB but we just miss VVD so much, as would any team. Gigantic loss for our defence, still annoys me.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:21 PM   #7979
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Could consider Milner as CB?
No, play a CB there.
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Old 06-01-21, 02:26 PM   #7980
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Could consider Milner as CB?
I think he is probably a bit too short, I think he's only about 5'9", probably why Henderson was in there ahead of him
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Old 06-01-21, 02:29 PM   #7981
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Millie played there in a cup game last season (or yr before) & was a nightmare
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Old 06-01-21, 03:37 PM   #7982
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I think Hendo has to play in midfield, we need his organisation, voice and drive there. I would rather play Williams than have Hendo as a CB again. Like Dan says fitness is an issue for players coming back in. For United I would prioritise the midfield press to reduce reliance on a makeshift central defence (assuming Matip is still out). The one thing we are missing is the great early distribution we used to get from VVD and that is really hard to replace.
Yep, similar to Spurs when Rhys played, strong midfield, played well and won the game.

Fwiw I think Matip will make it.
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