So Who's Going To Win The Ashes?

[ningnangnong]

Can't wait for the series to begin.

Australia will win for sure. :rock:

[MrMichael]

You're right, Australia will win, probably quite easily too. England are much better than they were, but they played about as well as they ever could during the last Ashes series and just scraped it; over at your place, with the injuries they have at the moment too, I just can't see anything other than a 3-1 win for the Aussies :haha:

[dww]

I think we will be competitive if we get Flintoff fit. We have better strength in depth now than we have had for ages.

Still I think Australia will edge the series.

[enema of the state]

I think we will be competitive if we get Flintoff fit. We have better strength in depth now than we have had for ages.

Still I think Australia will edge the series.

England will retain the ashes

heres what the aussies were up against in 2002/3

ME Trescothick
MP Vaughan
MA Butcher
*N Hussain
RKJ Dawson
RWT Key
JP Crawley
C White
+JS Foster
AR Caddick
SJ Harmison

england have improved IMMEASURABLY on this side...i cant even remeber who dawson and foster are!

harmison, flintoff and panesar will take around 20 wickets each, add in hoggard/mahmood and well get through the aussie batting most tests

the aussie side was along the lines of

JL Langer
ML Hayden
RT Ponting
DR Martyn
DS Lehmann
*SR Waugh
+AC Gilchrist
SK Warne
B Lee
JN Gillespie
GD McGrath

and only clarke and hussey have really cracked that side since as far as ive seen. most of the players in that lineup are not performing at the levels theyve previously achieved and i havent seen ANY australian cricketer come through since that would get in the england team...although i know theres enough depth in the aussie domestic game to come up with a couple of gems come the winter.

If aussie bats 1st and gets 400+ then theres a good chance warne will win you a test or two but if england get runs 1st we will win in the 4th innings where we couldnt before. if the wickets take seam and the games are low scoring, well win whoever bats 1st.

ENGLAND TO RETAIN THE ASHES

5 crates of magners cider on offer for 5 different aussies prepared to bet that you boys will regain the ashes.

i'm hoping to be working in sydney from next autumn so maybe we can even drink them when england have it tied-up after 3 tests;)

[red_in_oz]

I think we will be competitive if we get Flintoff fit. We have better strength in depth now than we have had for ages.

Still I think Australia will edge the series.

I agree.

Engalnd had home advantage last summer and the fans and national interest made a huge difference.

But over here, the Aussies will have the advantage and I reckon they will edge it. :cry:

That means all the shit I dished out last September to the convicts will all get thrown back at me.

COME ON ENGLAND!!!

[dww]

ME Trescothick
MP Vaughan
MA Butcher
*N Hussain
RKJ Dawson
RWT Key
JP Crawley
C White
+JS Foster
AR Caddick
SJ Harmison


God that is an awful side. If i remember correctly Foster was that young wicketkeeper who has since been discarded.

Like you no idea who Dawson is. But that bowling attack looks terrible - Caddick was past his best. White was never consistant and Harmison was inexperienced then.

[Shaggy]

This is bizarre. I remember Foster the wicket keeper, but who the fcuk is Dawson? Some of my mates went over and I stayed up to watch virtually every ball of the series, yet I still can't remember the bloke. :confused:

I think we'll be competitive and may draw the series. The Aussies will be a much tougher nut to crack this time, obviously, but it's nice to be going over there with a genuine chance and also the respect of the Aussies.

Can't wait for the series to start.

[MattBiscan]

Can't wait either. Think it could be a tight one.

Which bowlers would you take? I'd go for:

Harmison
Jones
Flintoff
Panesar
Hoggard

i.e. No Giles or Mahmood.

[enema of the state]

Can't wait either. Think it could be a tight one.

Which bowlers would you take? I'd go for:

Harmison
Jones
Flintoff
Panesar
Hoggard

i.e. No Giles or Mahmood.

so would i but id be amazed if jones is fit so id put mahmood in

id play 6 bats with collingwood as 5th bowler, flintoff at 7, read 8 then hoggard, mahmood, harmison

[dww]

I think that Giles will definitely be in the travelling party. Until recently Fletcher was very grudging in his praise of Panesar and I think he will want to keep the pressure on him, we also might want to have the option to play two spinners.

I agree that there is no way Jones will be fully fit for the first few tests, meaning that Mahmood is in the squad by default almost. He looks the weakest link to me at the minute.

[G_Man]

This is bizarre. I remember Foster the wicket keeper, but who the fcuk is Dawson?

:shake: :shake: :shake:

Richard Dawson? He was the best off spinner in county cricket the year of that tour. He's a YORKSHIREMAN. He's lost his way a bit, he had one excellent tour of NZ & India but in Oz he started to speed up and lost his dip and flight. He bowls it too flat now, he career seems to have gone all Ian Salisbury. Sad really, he wasn't given a chance.:sigh:

For the record, I think Australia will win 3-1.

[enema of the state]

:shake: :shake: :shake:

Richard Dawson? He was the best off spinner in county cricket the year of that tour. He's a YORKSHIREMAN. .


he was pants yorkie or not

[G_Man]

Well you obviously didn't see much county cricket that year then.

Consider you can't even remember who he was I'll take that assesment of yours with a truck of salt :handshake:

[G_Man]

Amazing so many "authorities" on cricket can't even remember who an Engalnd player from 4 years ago was http://www1.koptalkinsider.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[enema of the state]

i may not follow yorkshire but a now a duffer when i see one bowl:D

you can put my not remembering him down to psychological protection mechanisms

[Shaggy]

RICHARD DAWSON! That's him. Gee whizz, proper forgot all about him.

For the record I barely follow County cricket anymore so I've not seen or heard his name since he last wore the England shirt. Can hardly find the time to keep up with County cricket. That and the fact Derbyshire are the worst team ever. :shake:

MAHMOOD STRIKES!

[G_Man]

i may not follow yorkshire but a now a duffer when i see one bowl:D


But you've obviously never seen him bowl, save for a few Test matches on unfavourable pitches.
Have you seen him bowl live on a turning pitch?
He was instrumental in Yorkshire county championship win, he regularly bowled sides out.

[dww]

Well it's good to have someone on here to educate me about the finer points of the game. If I'm honest i only really follow cricket in terms of England.

[G_Man]

Richard Dawson
Dawson was chosen for England's winter tours of India and New Zealand in 2001-02 tours after helping Yorkshire to the Championship title.

He collected four wickets on his debut Test at Mohali and featured the following winter in Australia when he deputised for Ashley Giles and batted with considerable bravery against a barrage from Brett Lee.

He is a good fielder and was picked in England's 30-man pool of players for the 2004 ICC Champions Trophy but missed out on final selection, although he toured UAE and Sri Lanka with England A at the start of 2005.

Produced several impressive performances the following summer, including a half-century in the three-wicket County Championship win against Worcestershire, and took over the Yorkshire captaincy when Craig White was sidelined with a knee injury.

The season ended with promotion in the Championship, Dawson playing his part with 430 runs and 27 wickets.

Was offered a new contract at the end of the 2005 season.

Richard Dawson

Key facts
Full Name: Richard Kevin James Dawson
Born: August 4, 1980, Doncaster
County: Yorkshire
Other Teams: England, England A
Test Debut: v India, 2001
Batting Style: Right Hand Bat
Bowling Style: Right Arm Off Break

http://www.yorkshireccc.com/players/capped_first_eleven/richard_dawson/image

[enema of the state]

But you've obviously never seen him bowl, save for a few Test matches on unfavourable pitches.
Have you seen him bowl live on a turning pitch?
He was instrumental in Yorkshire county championship win, he regularly bowled sides out.

well and good mate but all that matters to me - as someone wholl almost never watch yorkshire ccc - is whether he CAN bowl on unfavourable pitches to good batsmen. dawson couldnt, i think panesar can

[G_Man]

well and good mate but all that matters to me - as someone wholl almost never watch yorkshire ccc - is whether he CAN bowl on unfavourable pitches to good batsmen. dawson couldnt, i think panesar can

How do you know though? You've never seen Panesar bowl down under and Australia 2001/2 were widely lauded as the greatest cricket team EVER.

[Mumsafan]

RICHARD DAWSON! That's him. Gee whizz, proper forgot all about him.

For the record I barely follow County cricket anymore so I've not seen or heard his name since he last wore the England shirt. Can hardly find the time to keep up with County cricket. That and the fact Derbyshire are the worst team ever. :shake:

MAHMOOD STRIKES!

They won their first game at home in 4 years last week :haha:

[G_Man]

Fucks sake. Trescothick AND Cook have now dropped catches :shake:

[enema of the state]

How do you know though? You've never seen Panesar bowl down under and Australia 2001/2 were widely lauded as the greatest cricket team EVER.

i dont KNOW (i said i THINK) yet nobody does but he turns the ball much more than dawson did, he turns it the other way - which is an advantage even though australia will probable have a few lefties and most importantly i KNOW he can get good batsmen out starting with tendulkar and recently Younis, inzamam and yusuf on a third day pitch at manchester.

monty is a different class to dawson

[G_Man]

i dont KNOW yet nobody does but he turns the ball much more than dawson did, he turns it the others way - which is an advantage even though australia will probable have a few lefties and most importantly i KNOW he can get good batsmen out strting with tendulkar and recently Younis, inzamam and yusuf on a third day pitch at manchester.

monty is a different class to dawson


Well you can have an opinion but you sound like you're making a statement of fact. The fact is you are not in a position to judge :handshake:

Manchester was a turning pitch, it ALWAYS has been. Have a look at Shane Warne's record at English grounds. You'll find he does quite well there.

You think Dawson hasn't got any good batsmen out? Shows what you know about him then :shake:

[enema of the state]

Well you can have an opinion but you sound like you're making a statement of fact. The fact is you are not in a position to judge :handshake:

pardon me if my OPINION sounded like a fact

i am in a good position - watching cricket actually:D - to state my opinion and hence to judge

[enema of the state]

Well you can have an opinion but you sound like you're making a statement of fact. The fact is you are not in a position to judge :handshake:

Manchester was a turning pitch, it ALWAYS has been. Have a look at Shane Warne's record at English grounds. You'll find he does quite well there.

You think Dawson hasn't got any good batsmen out? Shows what you know about him then :shake:

so is brisbane, melbourne and sydney - shaney boys got a fair few wickets there too...how many wickets did dawson get us there?

if he was any good, hed still be in the side

[G_Man]

pardon me if my OPINION sounded like a fact

i am in a good position - watching cricket actually:D - to state my opinion and hence to judge

You're in a godd position to judge having seen Panesar in what less than half a dozen games and you can compare him to a player you can't even remember.

Whatever. :shake:

Your comment about getting good players out-how about Justin Langer? How about VVS Laxman? You think they can't play spin?

[enema of the state]

the old trafford pitch has changed GREATLY since the 1993 and 1997 ashes.

now its very fast and bouncy and its been a seamers pitch since the summer of 1999

[G_Man]

so is brisbane, melbourne and sydney - shaney boys got a fair few wickets there too...how many wickets did dawson get us there?

if he was any good, hed still be in the side

What does this prove?

You said you'd seen Monty get wickets at Manchester. My point was any half decent spinner would get wickets at Manchester because it's a turning wicket, always has been.

[G_Man]

the old trafford pitch has changed GREATLY since the 1993 and 1997 ashes.

now its very fast and bouncy and its been a seamers pitch since the summer of 1999

Of course :haha: :haha: :haha:

[G_Man]

so is brisbane, melbourne and sydney - shaney boys got a fair few wickets there too...how many wickets did dawson get us there?

if he was any good, hed still be in the side

They are not classically turning wickets though, are they?

[enema of the state]

You're in a godd position to judge having seen Panesar in what less than half a dozen games and you can compare him to a player you can't even remember.

Whatever. :shake:

Your comment about getting good players out-how about Justin Langer? How about VVS Laxman? You think they can't play spin?

i was being flippant when i posted i couldnt remember dawson

its not just about getting em out its about getting em out before they make 250!!!!!

JL Langer c Caddick b Dawson 250 578 407 30 1
ML Hayden c Crawley b Caddick 102 189 149 10 3
RT Ponting b White 21 40 32 3 0
DR Martyn c Trescothick b White 17 38 30 3 0
*SR Waugh c Foster b White 77 159 117 15 0
ML Love not out 62 160 141 4 0
+AC Gilchrist b Dawson 1 9 6 0 0
Extras (lb 11, w 5, nb 5) 21
Total (6 wickets dec, 146 overs, 588 mins) 551

[G_Man]

i was being flippant when i posted i couldnt remember dawson

Convenient face-saver. You're STILL judging Monty on less than half a dozen Tests all in this country. Madness. For the record I think he is a better bowler but to say he's a different class to Dawson circa 2002 is nonsense.

its not just about getting em out its about getting em out before they make 250!!!!!

JL Langer c Caddick b Dawson 250 578 407 30 1
ML Hayden c Crawley b Caddick 102 189 149 10 3
RT Ponting b White 21 40 32 3 0
DR Martyn c Trescothick b White 17 38 30 3 0
*SR Waugh c Foster b White 77 159 117 15 0
ML Love not out 62 160 141 4 0
+AC Gilchrist b Dawson 1 9 6 0 0
Extras (lb 11, w 5, nb 5) 21
Total (6 wickets dec, 146 overs, 588 mins) 551

Right because he bowled at him for his entire innings.

[enema of the state]

They are not classically turning wickets though, are they?

sydney is probably the most pro spin wicket in england/oz if not the world

the aussies have played 2 spinners there in every test since the early 1980's

its consistntly the ground where they bring in mcGill

[G_Man]

sydney is probably the most pro spin wicket in england/oz if not the world


Seriously now.

I agree it spins more than other grounds in Australia but come on.

[enema of the state]

ok g-man

david.graveney@ecb.org.uk

see if you can persuade him that dawson needs to be brought back ahead of monty

get those white rose petals out of your eyes

[enema of the state]

Seriously now.

I agree it spins more than other grounds in Australia but come on.

deadly serious as i was about the OT track. its a fast bowlers pitch these days

[dww]

I think he claimed that the 2002 form of Dawson would justify comparison. he even admited that he thought Panesar was a better player.

From what i have seen of Panesar (not a lot obviously, but I did see him live in the Lords test) he responds immensly to the crowd. In Australia the crowd will not be so pro him and he will have to learn to find that little bit extra on his own. I think the Ashes will make or break his prospects of becoming a genuine great for England.

[G_Man]

You're not reading/comprehending my posts so I'll say it once more and then I'll leave this nonsense discussion.

Panesar- TOTALLY unproven, too early to judge, needs more games at first class let alone Tests.
Dawson- the best spinner in county cricket in 2001/2 took 4 wickets on Test debut against the Indians. Has lost his way since he started to bowl flatter.

You- judging a player who's hardly played first class cricket let alone Test match cricket against a player you couldn't remember and saying he's a different class.

At no point have i said Dawson should be recalled, I actually said his career has gone "Ian Salisbury" since he started to bowl flatter.

[enema of the state]

I think he claimed that the 2002 form of Dawson would justify comparison. he even admited that he thought Panesar was a better player..[/QUOTE

mmmm okay

[QUOTE=dww]From what i have seen of Panesar (not a lot obviously, but I did see him live in the Lords test) he responds immensly to the crowd. In Australia the crowd will not be so pro him and he will have to learn to find that little bit extra on his own. I think the Ashes will make or break his prospects of becoming a genuine great for England.

i disagree

monty bowls in a trance like state. he fielded right in front of me at ot and NEVER interacted with a seriously rowdy crowd. thats part of the reason why i think hell have the mental strength to blot out the aussie larakins and do some damage.

[dww]

I hope you are right.

[enema of the state]

DAWSON

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 7 1116 677 11 4/134 4/134 61.54 3.63 101.45 1 0 0


Tests 9 2228 934 31 5/72 8/93 30.12 2.51 71.87 0 2 0

Panesar

thats 3 full series G man including india away!

Unproven???? if you like

these facts plus my subjective judgement leads me to the OPINION that panesar is different class

come on monty!!

[Shaggy]

They won their first game at home in 4 years last week :haha:

I know...unreal huh? It'd be depressing if I gave a shit!

[Ryan]

I'm going to them in Melbourne. Hope you're all jealous.

C'MON THE AUSSIES!!!

[paulcooper4]

I'm going to them in Melbourne. Hope you're all jealous.

C'MON THE AUSSIES!!!
hahahahaha, i had a look at sixcrazyminutes.com:haha: :haha: HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU A MODERATOR!!!!!:o
:crackoff: :crackoff:

[saveferris]

I think the absence of Vaughan and Flintoff has been good for england though as it has resulted in the emergence of Cook, Collingwood and Bell in players that can do a job out there.

Its in the bowling that Englansd need to step up a notch if the are to compete in Australia, they were excellent in the last Ashes series but havent replicated that form.

For me the Aussies should win, but England will run them close.

[G_Man]

I think the absence of Vaughan and Flintoff has been good for england though as it has resulted in the emergence of Cook, Collingwood and Bell in players that can do a job out there.

Its in the bowling that Englansd need to step up a notch if the are to compete in Australia, they were excellent in the last Ashes series but havent replicated that form.

For me the Aussies should win, but England will run them close.

Spot on. England bowled out of their skins last summer and the aussies (McGrath and warne apart) bowled poorly. That was the reason we won.
hoggard is struggling at the moment, Harmisson's form is all over the shop but he should do well in Australia, Panesar is a big improvement on Giles but will he cope with the pressure. The loss of Simon Jones is a big blow and who know how well Flintoff will bowl?
All in all, I think England would do well to tie the series and will probably lose 3-1.

[enema of the state]

glen mcgrath on ssn:

"australia are twice the team that played in the ashes last year"

but isnt he the bloke thatsaid australia would win the last series 5-0?

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

If England are to have any chance Steve Harmison and Hoggard have to perform better than they did against Pakistan.

[ningnangnong]

I hope good old Steve Harmison bows like he did the last time he came to Australia.

[enema of the state]

when aussies are "hoping", theyre losing

[Charlie_B]

Have to say, the fact that the Aussies have gone on an army boot camp 2 months beforehand is a bit worrying, can't see our lads doing that, they'd be pissed all the time.

Aussies are going to win. They've got a full side to pick from. We're missing key players. They have home advantage. They're majorly pissed off. Cue, Aussie win.

Should be an amazing series though.

[Howard_lfc]

Sorry but who gives shit?

BTW - england will be whitewashed.