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Sergei Rebrov is at the centre of a possible race row by giving Spurs new boy Roman Pavlyuchenko some controversial advice.
The former Tottenham hitman reportedly warned Pavlyuchenko not to go out near White Hart Lane - because lots of "dark-skinned people" live there.
According to the Daily Mirror, Rebrov's astonishing comments came in an interview in Russian magazine Football Weekly on how £13.8million signing Pavlyuchenko should adapt to British life.
Rebrov - who played for Spurs between 2000 and 2004 - said: "I wouldn't go for a walk on my own around White Hart Lane.
"A lot of dark-skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else.
"It's not nice to be a robbery victim. So I suggest that Roman doesn't walk but drives around that area."
The racism aspect aside, he's not wrong about walking about Tottenham. I wouldn't do it.
Shocking comments but he's right about how dodgy it is. I used to go and visit a mate there and I often found myself walking the streets at night - possibly the scariest place I've seen in Britain.
bobbyfallon
10-09-08, 11:20 AM
Sergei Rebrov is at the centre of a possible race row by giving Spurs new boy Roman Pavlyuchenko some controversial advice.
The former Tottenham hitman reportedly warned Pavlyuchenko not to go out near White Hart Lane - because lots of "dark-skinned people" live there.
According to the Daily Mirror, Rebrov's astonishing comments came in an interview in Russian magazine Football Weekly on how £13.8million signing Pavlyuchenko should adapt to British life.
Rebrov - who played for Spurs between 2000 and 2004 - said: "I wouldn't go for a walk on my own around White Hart Lane.
"A lot of dark-skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
"It's not nice to be a robbery victim. So I suggest that Roman doesn't walk but drives around that area."
Vermilion
10-09-08, 11:28 AM
Bollocks...the post above pointed out the same thing i posted here..........just sooner.:( Thought that bit stood out too BobFall,:handshake:
Wiki paints a pretty damning picture:
"Those living in the ward have a life expectancy seven years less than someone living in nearby Highgate; the area has a significant and entrenched problem with guns, drugs, arson, burglaries and anti-social behaviour"
Wiki paints a pretty damning picture:
"Those living in the ward have a life expectancy seven years less than someone living in nearby Highgate; the area has a significant and entrenched problem with guns, drugs, arson, burglaries and anti-social behaviour"
where doesnt :crackoff:
Kenneth
10-09-08, 02:30 PM
Sergei Rebrov is at the centre of a possible race row by giving Spurs new boy Roman Pavlyuchenko some controversial advice.
The former Tottenham hitman reportedly warned Pavlyuchenko not to go out near White Hart Lane - because lots of "dark-skinned people" live there.
According to the Daily Mirror, Rebrov's astonishing comments came in an interview in Russian magazine Football Weekly on how £13.8million signing Pavlyuchenko should adapt to British life.
Rebrov - who played for Spurs between 2000 and 2004 - said: "I wouldn't go for a walk on my own around White Hart Lane.
"A lot of dark-skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else.
"It's not nice to be a robbery victim. So I suggest that Roman doesn't walk but drives around that area."
:haha:
Joe King
10-09-08, 02:35 PM
Its fucking London, the crime rate is higher anyway.
But shameful remarks by Rebrov.
But shameful remarks by Rebrov.
:handshake: Barmy. If he actually said it though.
Helios Creed
10-09-08, 02:56 PM
Wiki paints a pretty damning picture:
"Those living in the ward have a life expectancy seven years less than someone living in nearby Highgate; the area has a significant and entrenched problem with guns, drugs, arson, burglaries and anti-social behaviour"
Good job it didn't say Highbury...
The racism aspect aside, he's not wrong about walking about Tottenham. I wouldn't do it.
true, you end up on the wrong side of the seven sisters road......
Sisterstiffticket
10-09-08, 08:13 PM
He's spot on. You lot seem to agree but are saying he shouldn't have said it.
He has every right. There are no particular 'racist' comments there.
Racism is about hating people because of the colour of their skin. In saying 'naturally the crime rate will be higher' he is correct. Figures bear it out. It doesn't mean he hates them, but is pointing out the fact it is a terribly deprived area.
What has he said that's so wrong???
Afterall he's lived in the area.
He's right about two things, there are a lot of "dark-skinned" people there, and there is quite a high crime rate. Not sure if he is right to link the two the way he does though.
Tottenham is a very rough area, and I'm willing to bet no first team Spurs player lives within 5 miles of it.
focusedonfootball
10-09-08, 09:50 PM
Robbie Keane lived in Winchmore Hill. 2 miles away. Never got broken into mind.
Helios Creed
10-09-08, 10:22 PM
from today's Fiver
Here's a stat for you, Serhiy. Rate of people convicted of crime in Ukraine, according to latest United Nations Survey on Crime Trends: 466.47 per 100,000 inhabitants. Comparative rate for Zambia, home to lots of dark-skinned people: 0.97 per 100,000.
According to Serhiy's judgement, you'd think the Ukraine would be lower, wouldn't you?
Robbie Keane lived in Winchmore Hill. 2 miles away. Never got broken into mind.
Really? Whereabouts? I live in Winchmore Hill, much nicer area than Tottenham! The Redknapps apparently live round the corner. Never seen either them or Keane about the place.
Where are you based mate?
El Diego
10-09-08, 10:48 PM
Shocking comments but he's right about how dodgy it is. I used to go and visit a mate there and I often found myself walking the streets at night - possibly the scariest place I've seen in Britain.
Mate you haven't been around canning town or peckham then?
He's spot on. You lot seem to agree but are saying he shouldn't have said it.
He has every right. There are no particular 'racist' comments there.
Racism is about hating people because of the colour of their skin. In saying 'naturally the crime rate will be higher' he is correct. Figures bear it out. It doesn't mean he hates them, but is pointing out the fact it is a terribly deprived area.
So why doesn't he say "It's a terribly deprived area, therefore the crime rate is higher" instead of implying that the only possible reason for the greater incidence of crime is the presence of "dark skinned people"?
Racism isn't solely about hating people of a different racial group; it's about believing that one race is inherently superior to another and using this belief to fuel prejudice. If the remarks have been translated correctly (which I would expect Rebrov to deny, given they make him appear an immense tool), he couldn't be any more racist if he put on 10 stone and called himself Bernard.
Mate you haven't been around canning town or peckham then?
Having spent time in all three areas Tottenham is no nicer than the other two.
EwarWoo
11-09-08, 09:43 AM
All crime figures do tend to show an higher crime rate from black young men than any other section of society.
His phrasing is very unfortunate, but he is right, where you find young black men congregating statistically there is more likely to be crime, particularly street robbery.
Sure, it's not nice, and possibly a lot more of a reflection of how young black men are treated in our society than a reflection on their value, but all that doesn't make it any less true.
So how can it be racist if he's stating fact?
So why doesn't he say "It's a terribly deprived area, therefore the crime rate is higher" instead of implying that the only possible reason for the greater incidence of crime is the presence of "dark skinned people"?
Racism isn't solely about hating people of a different racial group; it's about believing that one race is inherently superior to another and using this belief to fuel prejudice. If the remarks have been translated correctly (which I would expect Rebrov to deny, given they make him appear an immense tool), he couldn't be any more racist if he put on 10 stone and called himself Bernard.
:handshake: Too fucking right. How anyone could defend comments like that is unbelievable. The quote says that the crime rate is higher because the people aren't white. That's pretty clear cut racist bulshit.
There is a difference in saying an area has a lot of crime (which most people would agree with) and saying that's an inevitability because of the race of the people living there.
All crime figures do tend to show an higher crime rate from black young men than any other section of society.
His phrasing is very unfortunate, but he is right, where you find young black men congregating statistically there is more likely to be crime, particularly street robbery.
Sure, it's not nice, and possibly a lot more of a reflection of how young black men are treated in our society than a reflection on their value, but all that doesn't make it any less true.
So how can it be racist if he's stating fact?
He's saying that dark skinned people living somewhere means that the crime rate will be higher there. That's not fact, it's racism.
IF a higher proportion of young black men are being prosecuted for crime it doesn't necessarily mean that they are committing more.
Do you know how much more likely you are to be searched as a young black man compared to white? Put it this way I live in a multi cultural area and am good mates with two black lads who both live within a mile. They've both been randomly searched by police on numerous occasions, and because they were in posession of cannabis they have criminal records. I walk around the same areas as them with weed on me too but have never been stopped by the police once. That is only my personal experience and I don't claim that it is representative of everywhere in the UK (or even my locality) but it is very worrying.
There are many contributing factors to the issue you've brought up and they're not as black and white :crackoff: as black men commit more crime. There is a lot of poverty among black communites, less opportunities etc etc. Far too much to discuss here but Rebrov is bang out of order if he's said that.
He's saying that dark skinned people living somewhere means that the crime rate will be higher there. That's not fact, it's racism.
IF a higher proportion of young black men are being prosecuted for crime it doesn't necessarily mean that they are committing more.
Do you know how much more likely you are to be searched as a young black man compared to white? Put it this way I live in a multi cultural area and am good mates with two black lads who both live within a mile. They've both been randomly searched by police on numerous occasions, and because they were in posession of cannabis they have criminal records. I walk around the same areas as them with weed on me too but have never been stopped by the police once. That is only my personal experience and I don't claim that it is representative of everywhere in the UK (or even my locality) but it is very worrying.
There are many contributing factors to the issue you've brought up and they're not as black and white :crackoff: as black men commit more crime. There is a lot of poverty among black communites, less opportunities etc etc. Far too much to discuss here but Rebrov is bang out of order if he's said that.
:handshake:
Helios Creed
11-09-08, 05:52 PM
All crime figures do tend to show an higher crime rate from black young men than any other section of society.
His phrasing is very unfortunate, but he is right, where you find young black men congregating statistically there is more likely to be crime, particularly street robbery.
Sure, it's not nice, and possibly a lot more of a reflection of how young black men are treated in our society than a reflection on their value, but all that doesn't make it any less true.
So how can it be racist if he's stating fact?
Actually figures show higher crime rates in poor urban areas and a greater proportion of the black population live in such areas than do the white.
Poor, white, urban areas also have high levels of crime, but proportionally less of the white population live in them. It's the poverty that is the common factor and the cause.
Also to use the level of black people as an indicator of high crime is the same as saying that if you're in a rough white area, then you're safe. It would be more useful, more accurate and less offensive to say that you need to watch out in rough areas, then you're not blaming it on a race rather than the neighbourhood.
Sisterstiffticket
12-09-08, 12:09 AM
So why doesn't he say "It's a terribly deprived area, therefore the crime rate is higher" instead of implying that the only possible reason for the greater incidence of crime is the presence of "dark skinned people"?
Racism isn't solely about hating people of a different racial group; it's about believing that one race is inherently superior to another and using this belief to fuel prejudice. If the remarks have been translated correctly (which I would expect Rebrov to deny, given they make him appear an immense tool), he couldn't be any more racist if he put on 10 stone and called himself Bernard.
Don't be such a wetwang!:finger:
Don't stick your head up your arses because you think you may be seen as a racist. Years ago, statistics showed in London that most street muggings were by black kids. Not all black kids are street muggers. Yes, some are actually white!
But, the copper was SACKED for saying it because dicks jumped on his back.
This meant the problem was ignored and swept under the carpet and things for black kids have NOT improved.
WHY?
Because people are so scared of being called racist, they don't want to see whats going on.
To my mind, if you ignore a problem or a fact you don't like because of someones race or skin tone, THEY are the racist. THEY are the ones showing discrimination.
And as I say, thanks to the attitude of people like that, NOTHING has changed.
Don't be such a fucking wetwang!:finger:
Listen dipsticks. Don't stick your head up your arses because you think you may be seen as a fucking racist. Years ago, statistics showed in London that most street muggings were by black kids. Not all black kids are street muggers. Yes, some are actually white!
But, the copper was SACKED for saying it because dicks like you jumped on his back.
This meant the problem was ignored and swept under the carpet and things for black kids have NOT improved.
WHY?
Because people are so fucking scared of being called racist, they don't want to see whats going on.
To my mind, if you ignore a problem or a fact you don't like because of someones race or skin tone, YOU are the racist. YOU are the ones showing discrimination.
And as I say, thanks to the attitude of people like you, NOTHING has changed.
I'd suggest you refrain from insulting people mate, especially considering how stupid you're making yourself look with this thread. The quote says:
"A lot of dark-skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else."
That means that he believes the cime rate is higher because of the colour of people's skin, not poverty, not social deprevation, not lack of opportunity just that there's lots of dark skinned people there so it's inevitable there'll be more crime than if it were a mainly white area and that my friend is utter bullshit.
If he were saying "it's a very poor area with a lot of black youth who get caught up in crime for these reasons ....." then no reasonable person would have a problem with that.
When he is basically saying that black people = crime, then anyone but a complete racist or internet hero trying to challenge some imaginary case of 'political correctness' would and should find that quite offensive.
You haven't really provided an argument but calling other posters names and I don't see where you're coming from at all. You say because we're scared of being called racists we don't see what's going on, well what the fuck is going on in your opinion?
Don't be such a wetwang!:finger:
Don't stick your head up your arses because you think you may be seen as a racist. Years ago, statistics showed in London that most street muggings were by black kids. Not all black kids are street muggers. Yes, some are actually white!
But, the copper was SACKED for saying it because dicks jumped on his back.
This meant the problem was ignored and swept under the carpet and things for black kids have NOT improved.
WHY?
Because people are so scared of being called racist, they don't want to see whats going on.
To my mind, if you ignore a problem or a fact you don't like because of someones race or skin tone, THEY are the racist. THEY are the ones showing discrimination.
And as I say, thanks to the attitude of people like that, NOTHING has changed.
:handshake: there certainly wasnt many " honkys" on crimewatch last night :source:
Vermilion
12-09-08, 10:36 AM
:handshake: there certainly wasnt many " honkys" on crimewatch last night :source:
Hey... 'you white honkey you', haven't heard that since 'love thy neighbour' was on the tv. That show had the coloured gentleman always getting the better of his neighbour the daft white fella, it was so funny, although i must have been all of ooooh 9yrs old, or younger.
I remember when he got the white guy to dance around a tree at midnight naked, singing something like ....'onky wonky me white honky', to get rid of an African Voodo spell he though the guy had put on him.:haha:
No...surely i was older than 9yrs....no way was it that long ago...no waaayyyyyyyyy.
Hey... 'you white honkey you', haven't heard that since 'love thy neighbour' was on the tv. That show had the coloured gentleman always getting the better of his neighbour the daft white fella, it was so funny, although i must have been all of ooooh 9yrs old, or younger.
I remember when he got the white guy to dance around a tree at midnight naked, singing something like ....'onky wonky me white honky', to get rid of an African Voodo spell he though the guy had put on him.:haha:
No...surely i was older than 9yrs....no way was it that long ago...no waaayyyyyyyyy.
:haha: happy days
does make you feel a bit old though :(
Vermilion
12-09-08, 11:15 AM
:haha: happy days
does make you feel a bit old though :(
Very very old.:(
And er..Wise.....................:crackoff: :crackoff:
Don't be such a wetwang!:finger:
Don't stick your head up your arses because you think you may be seen as a racist. Years ago, statistics showed in London that most street muggings were by black kids. Not all black kids are street muggers. Yes, some are actually white!
But, the copper was SACKED for saying it because dicks jumped on his back.
This meant the problem was ignored and swept under the carpet and things for black kids have NOT improved.
WHY?
Because people are so scared of being called racist, they don't want to see whats going on.
To my mind, if you ignore a problem or a fact you don't like because of someones race or skin tone, THEY are the racist. THEY are the ones showing discrimination.
And as I say, thanks to the attitude of people like that, NOTHING has changed.
Whilst I would love to delve deeper into your skewed ramblings, which read like something that an indignant Dail Mail sub-editor might cough up over his Cornfalkes, I think BFG has summed it up more than adequately. Particularly here:
When he is basically saying that black people = crime, then anyone but a complete racist or internet hero trying to challenge some imaginary case of 'political correctness' would and should find that quite offensive.
There are undeniable problems within certain black communities, linked, amongst other things, to the development of unhelpful cultural expectations and aspirations, peer pressure and the need for a greater number of positive role models.
However, underlying these factors, as BFG points out, lies the inescapable fact that black and minority ethnic communities are more likely to be the victims of social and economic inequality, with fewer educational or employment opportunities, and a greater instance of poverty - that's without even throwing institutional racism into the mix, something that someone so well versed in issues relating to law enforcement in the capital as yourself must surely be aware of.
Blaming it all on the fact that 'people are scared of being called racist' is no more than a massive cop-out, that only serves to divert attention away from what should be important by raising some erroneous, near-mythical alternative agenda.
Rebrov made an ignorant remark, which was rightly interpreted as having overtly racist connotations. Bottom line. If that makes me a 'wetwang' (although to be honest, as insults go that's about as hurtful as a hard stare from a Chuckle Brother), then 'wetwang I be. Whatever the f*ck that means.
:handshake: there certainly wasnt many " honkys" on crimewatch last night :source:
Talking of the Chuckle Brothers.
I swear, it's like being tube-fed idiot soup in here sometimes.
Wow this thread really escalated quickly.
Don't be such a wetwang!:finger:
Don't stick your head up your arses because you think you may be seen as a racist. Years ago, statistics showed in London that most street muggings were by black kids. Not all black kids are street muggers. Yes, some are actually white!
But, the copper was SACKED for saying it because dicks jumped on his back.
This meant the problem was ignored and swept under the carpet and things for black kids have NOT improved.
WHY?
Because people are so scared of being called racist, they don't want to see whats going on.
To my mind, if you ignore a problem or a fact you don't like because of someones race or skin tone, THEY are the racist. THEY are the ones showing discrimination.
And as I say, thanks to the attitude of people like that, NOTHING has changed.
I found it quite funny that the Home Secretary had the balls to go into a Mosque a couple of years back and ask Muslim parents to be vigilant about what their kids are up to - yet would he have the balls to go to the black community and say the same thing? I mean, lets be honest here, are we more at risk from street crime or terrorism?
hertsred
12-09-08, 01:34 PM
Let's look at it like this. If instead of saying that there is more crime in Tottenham because of the dark skinned people, Rebrov had said there is more crime in Liverpool because of all the Scousers, the outrage on this board would, rightfully, be huge. I can't see the difference personally between the two. Both statements are bigoted crap. Both should be condemned.
Kenneth
12-09-08, 01:42 PM
Let's look at it like this. If instead of saying that there is more crime in Tottenham because of the dark skinned people, Rebrov had said there is more crime in Liverpool because of all the Scousers, the outrage on this board would, rightfully, be huge. I can't see the difference personally between the two. Both statements are bigoted crap. Both should be condemned.
And it's possible that both statements could actually be true. He's not necessarily saying black people = crime, he's effectively saing some non-black people = crime, some black people = crime, a higher number of black people = crime than non black. Big difference. THe latter can be proven to be true or not statistically.
The_weatherman
12-09-08, 02:18 PM
And it's possible that both statements could actually be true. He's not necessarily saying black people = crime, he's effectively saing some non-black people = crime, some black people = crime, a higher number of black people = crime than non black. Big difference. THe latter can be proven to be true or not statistically.
Even though that could be true on the surface we have to look for a third variable, which IMO would be social economic status, around 1920 there was study carried out in Chicago where the researchers found out that some parts of Chicago had higher crime rates, these parts had certain "symptoms" like culture conflict, high rate of turnover in the population, density of population and economic status of the area.
I might be forgetting something though but it was roughly like this. So IMO we, and Rebrov, should focus the attention from race or ethnictiy and towards society and it's build up. Now I have no idea how this area in London is made up but I would say it would be characterized something like this:
* Multicultural society.
* Dense population.
* High rates of turnover in the population - people moving to and from the area.
* Low economic status.
This is a neighbourhood these kids are born into, they don't choose it, the theory intimates that this turmoil is more in the inner city and becomes less apparent in the suburbs.
Joe King
12-09-08, 02:30 PM
BFG and zimbo :handshake:
I can't be arsed to quote them. Handled well.
El Jefecito
14-09-08, 05:24 AM
Whilst I would love to delve deeper into your skewed ramblings, which read like something that an indignant Dail Mail sub-editor might cough up over his Cornfalkes, I think BFG has summed it up more than adequately. Particularly here:
There are undeniable problems within certain black communities, linked, amongst other things, to the development of unhelpful cultural expectations and aspirations, peer pressure and the need for a greater number of positive role models.
However, underlying these factors, as BFG points out, lies the inescapable fact that black and minority ethnic communities are more likely to be the victims of social and economic inequality, with fewer educational or employment opportunities, and a greater instance of poverty - that's without even throwing institutional racism into the mix, something that someone so well versed in issues relating to law enforcement in the capital as yourself must surely be aware of.
Blaming it all on the fact that 'people are scared of being called racist' is no more than a massive cop-out, that only serves to divert attention away from what should be important by raising some erroneous, near-mythical alternative agenda.
Rebrov made an ignorant remark, which was rightly interpreted as having overtly racist connotations. Bottom line. If that makes me a 'wetwang' (although to be honest, as insults go that's about as hurtful as a hard stare from a Chuckle Brother), then 'wetwang I be. Whatever the f*ck that means.
Talking of the Chuckle Brothers.
I swear, it's like being tube-fed idiot soup in here sometimes.
If A implies B, and, B implies C, does A imply C?
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