View Full Version : Real Madrid - A big club? (Warning: may contain dog pictures)
We really need Xabi to come out and either end this speculation or just tell us straight that he wants to go to Madrid. If he wanted to go I would not blame him tbh - he has given us 5 years of good service and a move back to his homeland to join the biggest club in Spain would be totally understandable at this stage of his life.
Personally I would be gutted if he left, but given our apparent financial problems, a 30m fee (not any less) would be wholly acceptable if it was all given to Rafa's transfer kitty.
Do you really believe that?
Do you really believe that?
Yes I do. Why?
Yes I do. Why?
Because they're NOT the biggest club in Spain at this point in time, rather they're a club in decline. How much money have they splashed during the last 5 years? Lots of it, still they haven't won much.
It's a mess of a club IMO. For a club of so much financial resources they haven't been able to bring much needed stability to the club, even though they've had their fair share of very good managers lately. Del Bosque, Schuster, Juande Ramos and now Pelligrini.
Trigger happy directors looking for instant success, based on political manoeuvres which you'll only see in Spain.
Ferguson is right (for once), they're a repulsive club.
Craig_H
08-06-09, 01:37 PM
Because they're NOT the biggest club in Spain at this point in time, rather they're a club in decline. How much money have they splashed during the last 5 years? Lots of it, still they haven't won much.
It's a mess of a club IMO. For a club of so much financial resources they haven't been able to bring much needed stability to the club, even though they've had their fair share of very good managers lately. Del Bosque, Schuster, Juande Ramos and now Pelligrini.
Trigger happy directors looking for instant success, based on political manoeuvres which you'll only see in Spain.
Ferguson is right (for once), they're a repulsive club.
They're still the biggest club, not only in Spain, but also in the world.
By your own logic and descriptions of a club in decline, that hasnt won much in the last few years, is no longer the most powerful or dominant club in its own league and is in a mess off the field, you could be describing LFC.
They're still the biggest club, not only in Spain, but also in the world.
By your own logic and descriptions of a club in decline, that hasnt won much in the last few years, is no longer the most powerful or dominant club in its own league and is in a mess off the field, you could be describing LFC.
But they've got the money and can do whatever they want with it, contrary to us. Come again.
They're still the biggest club, not only in Spain, but also in the world.
By your own logic and descriptions of a club in decline, that hasnt won much in the last few years, is no longer the most powerful or dominant club in its own league and is in a mess off the field, you could be describing LFC.
:handshake:
Who won la liga and the champions league? Barcelona
DannyMan2006
08-06-09, 04:56 PM
Who won la liga and the champions league? Barcelona
Barcelona are the best team in Spain, Real Madrid are the biggest.
So what would we do with this £35m then if we got it?
That's the problem. But we would have to hope that we brought in a mdifielder who could slot in and do as good a job. Maybe we would have to look at dropping Gerrard into CM and signing a front man.
Buy Barry. :handshake:
Barry has joined Man City. This is official, been on the City and Villa websites, it has 100% happened. We will not be signing Barry as he is now a Man City player.
Next alternative?
Craig_H
08-06-09, 05:28 PM
But they've got the money and can do whatever they want with it, contrary to us. Come again.
Everything else you mentioned, including having splashed lots of money and won very little in the last few years, can describe us too.
The only difference is that they STILL have cash to spend, while we dont.
Yet you seemed to imply that they werent a massive club.
If they're not a massive club WITH all that cash they've got, what does it make a club with a similar list of problems, but without the cash riches - like us?
Everything else you mentioned, including having splashed lots of money and won very little in the last few years, can describe us too.
The only difference is that they STILL have cash to spend, while we dont.
Yet you seemed to imply that they werent a massive club.
If they're not a massive club WITH all that cash they've got, what does it make a club with a similar list of problems, but without the cash riches - like us?
We have nowhere near the same spending power. Absolutely nowhere near. They've bought Kaka for £56m FFS, and we can't even buy Barry for £12m.
EwarWoo
09-06-09, 02:11 AM
We have nowhere near the same spending power. Absolutely nowhere near. They've bought Kaka for £56m FFS, and we can't even buy Barry for £12m.
I don't quite get supposedly how the only difference between the 2 of us is they have more money yet we're a bigger club? Not sure what point you're trying to make or how?
I don't quite get supposedly how the only difference between the 2 of us is they have more money yet we're a bigger club? Not sure what point you're trying to make or how?
Ok, I'll try to explain it clearer. Based on the assumption (which does indeed happens to be true if I include the fact they can sign a £56m player and alternatively Club accounts which come out every year) that they are the 'richest' club in world football, the one with the most 'resources' available to them to buy the 'best' players.
Based on these facts, my point is:
They aren't expected to be doing as badly as they are currently in their respective competitions.
There is no excuse for their current failure on the pitch this season and the seasons before.
They are managed by 'knee jerks' acting as president who use the 'easiest' of options of buying all the 'best and most recognizable' talent everywhere.
All the above insults the capabilities of their scouting system and all relevant structure such as Young player development etc ...
Concisely, this means that all things being equal and with all those resources, they can't be classed as a great club as they should have had a clean sweep of trophies. You can excuse clubs punching above their weight, not those which can nitpick the best players around, yet still fail to produce a competitive team.
They've won 9 European cups yes, but that's in the past.
We're a bigger club maybe because we seem to be a team progressing in the right direction and doing things the right way, based on Rafa's blueprint.
On the negative side, the fact that we can't really compete financially and with us supporters being impatient and wanting instant success, this puts pressure on to 'burn the bridges' and try to be competitive as soon as possible. This is perfectly legitimate but we aren't going to outspend them soon right?
Barcelona has the right model and the one which every club in world football should espouse to, IMO. They have resources, though not unlimited and nowhere near as much as Real's, but they have had their philosophy for years and have stuck to it. Put money in young player development and ensure that the best players come through. This blueprint has been proved right from time to time.
Arsene Wenger is doing the same thing at Arsenal, and Rafa has started the same thing here, which is the only way to compete in the long term. Competing by having the most money isn't a viable solution, unless you've got sugar daddies spending money and buying the best on a shopping spree stroll.
Neil Young
09-06-09, 08:35 AM
Do you actually understand what the word "big" means?
Do you actually understand what the word "big" means?
Maybe not, maybe yes. It's all about exchanging ideas and opinions in the end.
Neil Young
09-06-09, 08:41 AM
Of course. :handshake:
Craig_H
09-06-09, 09:36 AM
Ok, I'll try to explain it clearer. Based on the assumption (which does indeed happens to be true if I include the fact they can sign a £56m player and alternatively Club accounts which come out every year) that they are the 'richest' club in world football, the one with the most 'resources' available to them to buy the 'best' players.
Based on these facts, my point is:
They aren't expected to be doing as badly as they are currently in their respective competitions.
There is no excuse for their current failure on the pitch this season and the seasons before.
They are managed by 'knee jerks' acting as president who use the 'easiest' of options of buying all the 'best and most recognizable' talent everywhere.
All the above insults the capabilities of their scouting system and all relevant structure such as Young player development etc ...
Concisely, this means that all things being equal and with all those resources, they can't be classed as a great club as they should have had a clean sweep of trophies. You can excuse clubs punching above their weight, not those which can nitpick the best players around, yet still fail to produce a competitive team.
They've won 9 European cups yes, but that's in the past.
And 4 of our 5 are in the past too. Do they not matter either?
Nobody would sensibly and seriously claim that Real Madrid arent a huge and great club. They may be a shambles and run stupidly, but they're enormous, no club in the world is bigger.
murder_inc
09-06-09, 10:01 AM
And 4 of our 5 are in the past too. Do they not matter either?
Nobody would sensibly and seriously claim that Real Madrid arent a huge and great club. They may be a shambles and run stupidly, but they're enormous, no club in the world is bigger.
:handshake:
Besides Liverpool Football Club :p
And 4 of our 5 are in the past too. Do they not matter either?
Nobody would sensibly and seriously claim that Real Madrid arent a huge and great club. They may be a shambles and run stupidly, but they're enormous, no club in the world is bigger.
I think we were 'a shambles' too up to when Rafa took charge. It's been a hard slog for him to change mentalities and still, 5 years in the job for his blueprint to be rubber stamped.
Yes Madrid are a great club, but I can't see why they boast to be the biggest club still, when they're just buying the best players around just by using their sheer financial resources. Same has been said about Man. Utd & Chelsea in the past, at the way they've 'bought' their way to success.
It's doing things the proper way, like Barca and us which differentiates the truly great clubs from the 'great but not so great ones' after all. Real has got prestige, just like Man. Utd, that's all. Everything else is a big vacuum IMO.
Neil Young
09-06-09, 10:34 AM
I think we were 'a shambles' too up to when Rafa took charge. It's been a hard slog for him to change mentalities and still, 5 years in the job for his blueprint to be rubber stamped.
Yes Madrid are a great club, but I can't see why they boast to be the biggest club still, when they're just buying the best players around just by using their sheer financial resources. Same has been said about Man. Utd & Chelsea in the past, at the way they've 'bought' their way to success.
It's doing things the proper way, like Barca and us which differentiates the truly great clubs from the 'great but not so great ones' after all. Real has got prestige, just like Man. Utd, that's all. Everything else is a big vacuum IMO.
:wall:
IMO you can sensibly apply the word 'big' to football clubs in a number of ways:
Turnover. Club as business - as distinct from team, squad, etc. Real Madrid have the biggest turnover of any football club in the world.
Trophies/success. Club as competitor for trophies. This can be subdivided into:
a. Historical success. Real Madrid are clearly the most successful in the most prestigious club competition in world football, the European Cup/Champions League. They are also have the best record in the other major competitions they enter: domestic league and cup.
b. Current. OK, so they haven't won anything this year. Or for a couple of seasons (or whatever it is). However if you use this definition then I think it lacks any tangible meaning. If Everton had won the FA Cup would that really have made them a "bigger club" than Liverpool or Chelsea?
That's it.
I think there's an excellent case for them claiming to be "the biggest club in the world."
Certainly only an idiot would claim Real Madrid aren't a big club.
:o
Real Madrid are the biggest football club in the world. End of. :D
:wall:
IMO you can sensibly apply the word 'big' to football clubs in a number of ways:
Turnover. Club as business - as distinct from team, squad, etc. Real Madrid have the biggest turnover in the world.
Trophies/success. Club as competitor for trophies. This can be subdivided into:
a. Historical success. Real Madrid are clearly the most successful in the most prestigious club competition in world football, the European Cup/Champions League. They are also have the best record in the other major competitions they enter: domestic league and cup.
b. Current. OK, so they haven't won anything this year. Or for a couple of seasons (or whatever it is). However if you use this definition then I think it lacks any tangible meaning. If Everton had beaten Chelsea would that really have made them a "bigger club" than Liverpool or Chelsea?
That's it.
Only an idiot would claim Real Madrid aren't a big club.
:o
Where did I say that they were not a big club, FFS, you intellectual knobs.
At this point in time they are merely a team struggling and which has sacked loads of managers, like in a merry go round.
I have actually said that they were NOT the biggest club in Spain at the moment. Look back at my post replying to Tee.
Then, I've got a different set of criteria for defining who's the biggest. I feel it's harder for a club to thrive, for example Barcelona, especially as they aren't known to be spending loads of money on buying superstars. They do it occasionally, the last one being Thierry Henry and who was the wrong side of his twenties. Samuel Eto' was 24 when he signed for them and he became the player he is after joining Barcelona.
At least acknowledge that there is ground for relativity in such a discussion, rather than riling me with the idiot label. I thought I was speaking to Craig_H there, with his usual pedantic way and 'I know all' style of posting.
I'm off for today. Good day.
Neil Young
09-06-09, 10:45 AM
:haha:
And good day to you, sir.
PC Plod
09-06-09, 11:04 AM
:wall:
IMO you can sensibly apply the word 'big' to football clubs in a number of ways:
Turnover. Club as business - as distinct from team, squad, etc. Real Madrid have the biggest turnover of any football club in the world.
Trophies/success. Club as competitor for trophies. This can be subdivided into:
a. Historical success. Real Madrid are clearly the most successful in the most prestigious club competition in world football, the European Cup/Champions League. They are also have the best record in the other major competitions they enter: domestic league and cup.
b. Current. OK, so they haven't won anything this year. Or for a couple of seasons (or whatever it is). However if you use this definition then I think it lacks any tangible meaning. If Everton had won the FA Cup would that really have made them a "bigger club" than Liverpool or Chelsea?
That's it.
I think there's an excellent case for them claiming to be "the biggest club in the world."
Certainly only an idiot would claim Real Madrid aren't a big club.
:o
Aye, altho global support is also a factor. Just look at Newcastle for example. :crackoff:
Craig_H
09-06-09, 12:57 PM
I think we were 'a shambles' too up to when Rafa took charge. It's been a hard slog for him to change mentalities and still, 5 years in the job for his blueprint to be rubber stamped.
I only think we're a shambles off the pitch, in terms of directors, owners, chief executives etc. Quite what this has to do with Real Madrid being a big, great club, i dont know.
Yes Madrid are a great club, but I can't see why they boast to be the biggest club still, when they're just buying the best players around just by using their sheer financial resources. Same has been said about Man. Utd & Chelsea in the past, at the way they've 'bought' their way to success.
You seem unsure as to whether or not Madrid are a great club:
Concisely, this means that all things being equal and with all those resources, they can't be classed as a great club as they should have had a clean sweep of trophies.
So which is it? Are they a great club or arent they? You're coming across as a bit contradictory here.
And as far as their boasting, they're the biggest club in the world, they're full of prestige, glamour and history, they've had iconic players over the years, the most successful club on the planet and nobody anywhere would struggle to know of Real Madrid and be able to tell you something about them. They're a legendary club and a name which always sits on European football's top table. I cant honestly think of anyone who'd argue that they're the biggest club in the world. Except you and some deluded Man Utd fans.
It's doing things the proper way, like Barca and us which differentiates the truly great clubs from the 'great but not so great ones' after all. Real has got prestige, just like Man. Utd, that's all. Everything else is a big vacuum IMO.
You cant put Chelsea in the same sentence as Madrid, Man Utd, Barca and us, when it comes to 'doing things the proper way'. It's an absurdity.
Barca, Madrid, United and us are all huge clubs and 'proper' clubs, who do things properly. All four have been self sufficient and have continuously been able to benefit from self generated revenues. Chelsea are completely different and are a chasm away from being remotely in the same league, when it comes to being a big club.
I have no idea where you get your ideas and views from, but each to their own. You can probably see by the volume of disagreement with your points, just how off the mark you are.
Real Madrid are the biggest club in the world, and it seems to be agreed that this is pretty much unquestionable.
Dani Alves obviously wasn't a big signing last summer then! :o
Can anyone tell where Madrid get all their money for funding these big money deals? In these tough economic times god knows who finances them. Fuck all to do with their history of winning trophies. They work so hard destabilizing clubs by going public about who they want to buy. Glamorous for a club that big.
Can anyone tell where Madrid get all their money for funding these big money deals? In these tough economic times god knows who finances them. Fuck all to do with their history of winning trophies. They work so hard destabilizing clubs by going public about who they want to buy. Glamorous for a club that big.
They get huge revenue from the likes of TV and the last Galacticos era was paid for by increasing this streams and vast debt. Assuming that they won't be bailed out again then you have to assume they are looking to do a number of summers business in one and hope that they reap rewards on and off the pitch. I guess in an era when the likes of Manchester City may come in and buy stars that under perform off them then they are in a stronger position than previously.
Can anyone tell where Madrid get all their money for funding these big money deals? In these tough economic times god knows who finances them. Fuck all to do with their history of winning trophies. They work so hard destabilizing clubs by going public about who they want to buy. Glamorous for a club that big.
the king, the government, big companies who likes to help corrupt regimes
Just picked that up from Jose Segura's interview. Hmm, interesting.
“It is curious because Madrid have a bigger pool from which to choose from than Barcelona and they always have great players. But that is precisely it: Madrid is a factory of individuals but you need to define the philosophy of the club.”
It's talking about youth setups though isn't it? I can see the point you are making though that Real from top to bottom have a different philosophy from Barcelona one which values individuals higher than a more joined together approach. I definitely think we need in future to move our club in the direction of what Barcelona have achieved in more recent times.
My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?
Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negates the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.
It's talking about youth setups though isn't it? I can see the point you are making though that Real from top to bottom have a different philosophy from Barcelona one which values individuals higher than a more joined together approach. I definitely think we need in future to move our club in the direction of what Barcelona have achieved in more recent times.
Yes its about youth setups and doing things properly. I'm not sure at all about Madrid generating huge revenues from their fanbase, I think its pretty relative anyway. By doing a simple comparison between the greatest club, I don't think they can state for certain that they've got many more fans, it's a fairly insignificant margin if ever there's one.
Not sure also they have done what it takes to be successful in a marketing sense, I am implying, just by seeing how badly they're run as a team that this can be translated in other sectors.
Madrid has been a mystery along the years. There are more questions than answers as regards to them, IMO.
My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?
Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negatives the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.
I can see what you are saying but as many teams over the years have illustrated (not least the Madrid galacticos) there is more to building a team than just buying the best players. Creating a great team is an achievement no matter who you are.
The simple fact is though that the Madrid splurge cash on players approach is not one we can emulate and other models have worked in the past. The alternative also has the benefits of eventually being self sustaining and being more romantic (which is I suspect the root of your preference for it).
I can see what you are saying but as many teams over the years have illustrated (not least the Madrid galacticos) there is more to building a team than just buying the best players. Creating a great team is an achievement no matter who you are.
The simple fact is though that the Madrid splurge cash on players approach is not one we can emulate and other models have worked in the past. The alternative also has the benefits of eventually being self sustaining and being more romantic (which is I suspect the root of your preference for it).
Madrid haven't achieved that for years though, despite winning La Liga with Capello in charge, he got dumped for it. Basically you only need a capable coach for building a good team, I guess Madrid don't have a problem finding one. Still, they've got no real continuity.
I am not sure neither that their business model is sustainable, as I can't see them raking in that much revenue to cover their arses. As you've said, they've been bailed out in the past and what are the chances of this happening again? At that rate, must be pretty good.
Yes they've got a huge stadium, but at the end of the day, if you let them, they'll end up buying Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Silva, Villa etc ... for a combined fee of £300m. How is that sustainable mate?
Scratch
09-06-09, 03:59 PM
Yes they've got a huge stadium, but at the end of the day, if you let them, they'll end up buying Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Silva, Villa etc ... for a combined fee of £300m. How is that sustainable mate?
Do they not also insist that any player who plays for them signs over all rights to their image as well? Add on to that revenue from shirt sales and other memorabilia and you will find that a lot of players basically pay for themselves.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 04:06 PM
Can anyone tell where Madrid get all their money for funding these big money deals? In these tough economic times god knows who finances them. Fuck all to do with their history of winning trophies. They work so hard destabilizing clubs by going public about who they want to buy. Glamorous for a club that big.
I dont know why you're now bringing up the source of their money and the idea of them going public about their targets, it has very little to do with the fact that they're the biggest club in the world. It seems like you're now changing the tone of your argument towards this money thing and going public, away from your previous argument about them not being a big and great club.
I now have no idea what point you're actually making, whereas before i knew what you were saying, even though it wasnt really accurate.
I dont know why you're now bringing up the source of their money and the idea of them going public about their targets, it has very little to do with the fact that they're the biggest club in the world. It seems like you're now changing the tone of your argument towards this money thing and going public, away from your previous argument about them not being a big and great club.
I now have no idea what point you're actually making, whereas before i knew what you were saying, even though it wasnt really accurate.
You have tied him into a knot. Let him be now. :haha:
Craig_H
09-06-09, 04:16 PM
My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?
Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negates the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.
:haha: Maybe if that was the question you'd asked before, we might've answered it. It's taken you about a day to finally work out what question you were asking or point you were making.
Why is the source of their funding 'dodgy' ? It's uncommon, certainly with regards to selling off their training complex and then renting it back free of charge from the state, but then, they're a sporting symbol of the state and the sporting representatives of the Spanish Monarchy, so it's not dodgy in any way.
The money they're getting for this summer's transfers seems to be in the form of loans from Spanish financial institutions, the national bank and the government. In the current climate, borrowing is difficult but if the financial institutions consider Real Madrid CF to be a safe company to lend money to, it's their decision. I still dont see how that is dodgy.
As for financial advantages and the idea that they make any achievement less worthy or not worthwhile, then i find that a strange argument, as such advantages have always in football.
We had financial advantages in previous decades when we broke records to sign the likes of Rush, Beardsley, Collymore and others. Do you consider our previous achievements to be therefore without merit?
My only problem with moneybags clubs 'buying' titles, is when the money hasnt been earnt or generated by the club - eg Chelsea and now Man City, money handed down that's the footballing equivalent of winning the lottery, it required no effort or intelligent business practices to generate it.
With United, their money is largely the result of clever marketing and effective revenue-generating business practices. With clubs who have borrowed money, they've earnt the ability to be considered a safe investment by the banks, through the effective financial management of their businesses, which has put them in a position whereby they're considered solid and safe enough to lend money to.
Madrid is in this category, due to the sheer scale of the club and the reputation it has as being an enormous sporting institution, and this position has been reached through various different techniques of marketing, planning and such like. Nothing dodgy about it for me.
Your previous posts never highlighted the 'how they achieved their success' point, you were sticking with the notion that they werent the biggest club in Spain (which was a strange comment) and how they werent a great club, until you then decided they actually WERE a great club. Had you initially asked the question of how they earned their status and reached their successes, it would've been discussed before.
Now you've put that question across, and i've put forward my views on it.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 04:20 PM
Yes its about youth setups and doing things properly. I'm not sure at all about Madrid generating huge revenues from their fanbase, I think its pretty relative anyway. By doing a simple comparison between the greatest club, I don't think they can state for certain that they've got many more fans, it's a fairly insignificant margin if ever there's one.
Not sure also they have done what it takes to be successful in a marketing sense, I am implying, just by seeing how badly they're run as a team that this can be translated in other sectors.
Madrid has been a mystery along the years. There are more questions than answers as regards to them, IMO.
They make plenty through their fanbase, with merchandising and other exercises which exploit their huge brand value. When i was over there in February, i visited their club shop and it's pretty massive, on three floors IIRC, and it was doing a roaring trade, very busy. It was all very glamourous and 'glossy' looking, and from just that one site, it was easy to see the Madrid marketing and promotions machine in full swing. The scale to which this has a positive financial impact on them was clear.
You've taken some footballing based mistakes and assumed that they must be equally inadequate in their off-field marketing based strategies, but that's a very bold assumption to make, with no solid foundations and from what i've seen, there's little substance or basis to such assumptions.
I dont see them as a mystery at all, they're a huge institution and one which seems to me, to be exploiting every avenue of their finance generating potential.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 04:25 PM
Fredo mate, i think you might be underestimating how much cash the image-sales of 'galactico' type players can generate. They did it before with the likes of Figo, Zidane and Beckham, and they're doing it again now. Players like this are idolised as god-like figures by a significant number of people, and this equals huge money. Ronaldo and Kaka are in this category too, as are players like Torres, who Madrid would spunk their load at the chance of signing, because they'd absolutely milk tonnes of cash from using his image.
Such players become almost separate 'brands' themselves - we saw it with Beckham, there was a time where you could paint his image onto a turd, and it'd probably sell.
That's where the value is for Madrid. Most clubs obviously do the whole 'named shirts' bit, but Madrid take it to the extreme, with all manner of random non-football based goods bearing the image and name of their stars. Plenty of people snap them up and the simple equation is that if you have enough of these stars and put their names and faces on enough different products (whether they're football related or not), you'll make a fortune.
Fredo mate, i think you might be underestimating how much cash the image-sales of 'galactico' type players can generate. They did it before with the likes of Figo, Zidane and Beckham, and they're doing it again now. Players like this are idolised as god-like figures by a significant number of people, and this equals huge money. Ronaldo and Kaka are in this category too, as are players like Torres, who Madrid would spunk their load at the chance of signing, because they'd absolutely milk tonnes of cash from using his image.
Such players become almost separate 'brands' themselves - we saw it with Beckham, there was a time where you could paint his image onto a turd, and it'd probably sell.
That's where the value is for Madrid. Most clubs obviously do the whole 'named shirts' bit, but Madrid take it to the extreme, with all manner of random non-football based goods bearing the image and name of their stars. Plenty of people snap them up and the simple equation is that if you have enough of these stars and put their names and faces on enough different products (whether they're football related or not), you'll make a fortune.
See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.
See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.
I am sure I read somewhere that when they signed beckham, they went to asia and made £10m in 3 days there.
RedReet
09-06-09, 04:39 PM
I am sure I read somewhere that when they signed beckham, they went to asia and made £10m in 3 days there.
I'm sure Beckham was sore after that!
See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.
Here you go ..........
Real Madrid's revenue from club merchandise, such as shirts, jumped 67 per cent in Beckham's first season alone, and climbed another 6.5 per cent in the year to June. Overall commercial income, which includes money from deals with the likes of Siemens, Adidas and Pepsi, which have all grown in value with the "Beckham effect", now stands at around £80m a year. Real Madrid also earned £48m (26 per cent of turnover) from match-day income (primarily ticket sales), £44m (24 per cent) from television, and £16m (8 per cent) from promotional activities such as lucrative overseas tours and friendliness, which have also become better earners because of David Beckham. And whereas Real Madrid's annual wage bill (£98m) now equates to 52 per cent of turnover, and is falling towards an expected ratio of 47 per cent next year.
With the financial improvement, Real Madrid is now the richest club in the world, beating Manchester United who won the title 8th consecutive years.
Full document if you can be arsed .......some student did a study on it
web.unbc.ca/~chenj/course/project/DavidBeckham.doc
Real Madrid’s income was $260million in 2002, the year before the club purchased Beckham for $41million from Manchester United. Three years later Real’s annual income reached $515million, nearly half of which came from marketing and merchandising. In winning the 2005 MLS Cup, the Galaxy became the first team in league history to turn a profit, albeit in the $500,000 range.
Another decent read.......
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/article/beckham-brings-marketing-power-to-us-soccer
I dont know why you're now bringing up the source of their money and the idea of them going public about their targets, it has very little to do with the fact that they're the biggest club in the world. It seems like you're now changing the tone of your argument towards this money thing and going public, away from your previous argument about them not being a big and great club.
I now have no idea what point you're actually making, whereas before i knew what you were saying, even though it wasnt really accurate.
But I have never said they were not a great club. I only said that they're aren't Spain's biggest club anymore, Barca is. Pretty obvious no? Barca had a clean sweep of trophies this year. Success is achieved on the field, not in respective bank accounts.
For me, I appreciate Barca's merits much more than that of Real. Fuck their galacticos, they're an 'assembled' team. :handshake:
You have tied him into a knot. Let him be now. :haha:
I'm still waiting for your argument as to why they are 'Spain's biggest club'. :rolleyes:
Enjoy your popcorns.
Neil Young
09-06-09, 04:56 PM
By turnover, support and success, Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. Real Madrid is in Spain. Spain is in the world.
Therefore Real Madrid is the biggest club in Spain.
Q.E.D.
Really fredo, I'm all for moving on to the interesting issues so how about stopping this "big club" argument b*ll*cks and carry on talking about whether or not their ethics deserve respect or criticism. That seems far more interesting and useful since it's not just an argument about definitions. :handshake:
By turnover, support and success, Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. Real Madrid is in Spain. Spain is in the world.
Therefore Real Madrid is the biggest club in Spain.
Q.E.D.
Really fredo, I'm all for moving on to the interesting issues so how about stopping this "big club" argument b*ll*cks and carry on talking about whether or not their ethics deserve respect or criticism. That seems far more interesting and useful since it's not just an argument about definitions. :handshake:
:handshake: Now that is an area open to some discussion. I think that Real Madrid is more than just a football club now, it is a Spanish institution, The King's team.
On that basis alone there are numerous ways in which it is able to abuse its position and I believe it has done so many times and will continue to do so.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 05:17 PM
See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.
Well it does generate huge funds, certainly but whether it 'works' or not is obviously dependent on how well you forecast and then execute the amount of revenue generation - against how much money you plan to spend off it.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 05:20 PM
But I have never said they were not a great club. I only said that they're aren't Spain's biggest club anymore, Barca is. Pretty obvious no? Barca had a clean sweep of trophies this year. Success is achieved on the field, not in respective bank accounts.
For me, I appreciate Barca's merits much more than that of Real. Fuck their galacticos, they're an 'assembled' team. :handshake:
You actually did say that they werent a great club.
And they are the biggest club in Spain, without a doubt. Not the best club, but certainly the biggest - do you see Barca embarking on a £250m transfer spree this summer?
Footballing merits-wise, Barca are miles ahead currently, but Real are the biggest football club in the world.
And as i've now seen, red g's post has the numbers to back up what i was saying.
Real Madrid’s income was $260million in 2002, the year before the club purchased Beckham for $41million from Manchester United. Three years later Real’s annual income reached $515million, nearly half of which came from marketing and merchandising. In winning the 2005 MLS Cup, the Galaxy became the first team in league history to turn a profit, albeit in the $500,000 range.
Another decent read.......
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/article/beckham-brings-marketing-power-to-us-soccer
:handshake:
That's just one 'glamour' player, if they get Ronaldo to go with Kaka, the effect will be almost doubled.
Here you go ..........
Real Madrid's revenue from club merchandise, such as shirts, jumped 67 per cent in Beckham's first season alone, and climbed another 6.5 per cent in the year to June. Overall commercial income, which includes money from deals with the likes of Siemens, Adidas and Pepsi, which have all grown in value with the "Beckham effect", now stands at around £80m a year. Real Madrid also earned £48m (26 per cent of turnover) from match-day income (primarily ticket sales), £44m (24 per cent) from television, and £16m (8 per cent) from promotional activities such as lucrative overseas tours and friendliness, which have also become better earners because of David Beckham. And whereas Real Madrid's annual wage bill (£98m) now equates to 52 per cent of turnover, and is falling towards an expected ratio of 47 per cent next year.
With the financial improvement, Real Madrid is now the richest club in the world, beating Manchester United who won the title 8th consecutive years.
Full document if you can be arsed .......some student did a study on it
web.unbc.ca/~chenj/course/project/DavidBeckham.doc
Cheers - browsed that and basically it appears that Beckham worked but I see no evidence of other comparable footballers capable of the same level of visibility boost in Asia etc. or increase in marketing revenue. Maybe I'm wrong.
Also a bit of wiki-ing revels that the training ground was sold to pay off debts and fund the purchase of the galacticos.
Well it does generate huge funds, certainly but whether it 'works' or not is obviously dependent on how well you forecast and then execute the amount of revenue generation - against how much money you plan to spend off it.
And arguably whether you win ought with the team depending on the definition of 'works'. The last project generated huge funds largely as far as I can tell from Beckham - it's not at all clear to me that Ronaldo/Kaka et al. open up markets on the same scale.
Craig_H
09-06-09, 05:30 PM
I think you're right about the levels of insanity that Beckham brought, and the idea that it's hard to see that being equalled by another player, but if you ask yourself which players would be the most lucrative in this area, you'd have to point to the likes of Kaka, Ronaldo, Messi, Torres etc. Beckham's the extreme and it's hard for others to generate the same levels, but even if Kaka doesnt reach the same heights of revenue generation, he's still one of the best (if not the best) options out there in the here and now, in order to do what they're trying to do.
Cheers - browsed that and basically it appears that Beckham worked but I see no evidence of other comparable footballers capable of the same level of visibility boost in Asia etc. or increase in marketing revenue. Maybe I'm wrong.
Also a bit of wiki-ing revels that the training ground was sold to pay off debts and fund the purchase of the galacticos.
And arguably whether you win ought with the team depending on the definition of 'works'. The last project generated huge funds largely as far as I can tell from Beckham - it's not at all clear to me that Ronaldo/Kaka et al. open up markets on the same scale.
although its clear to see Beckham was a phenom and certainly on his own in terms of marketability the money generated now i presume is higher to a few years ago when beckham was there?
Also I imagine Kaka and Ronaldo while not being as big globally certainly Kaka in the south american markets and Ronaldo is in latino/anything gay as fuck
You actually did say that they werent a great club.
And they are the biggest club in Spain, without a doubt. Not the best club, but certainly the biggest - do you see Barca embarking on a £250m transfer spree this summer?
Footballing merits-wise, Barca are miles ahead currently, but Real are the biggest football club in the world.
And as i've now seen, red g's post has the numbers to back up what i was saying.
:handshake:
That's just one 'glamour' player, if they get Ronaldo to go with Kaka, the effect will be almost doubled.
So it's all about how we define 'big' then. I see it differently and never wanted to enter this kind of debate anyway; strange that people like to corner me where they want just to prove their point. :handshake:
Going back to Madrid, read the latest offering from Perez, speaking about how he'd do 'everything' to get Ronaldo. FFS, that's disgusting! There's grounds to sue them at that rate.
Craig_H
10-06-09, 09:26 AM
Corner you? :haha: If you want to express some very odd views, be prepared to have people argue with them. I agree it's about how people define 'big' but when such a majority of people seem to be considering Madrid as the biggest club in the world, you might think to reconsider whether you might have the wrong end of the stick on this one.
As for the last point - sue them for what??
I'm starting to wonder if it's 1st April again. :o
EwarWoo
10-06-09, 09:59 AM
strange that people like to corner me where they want just to prove their point. :handshake:
Isn't that what debating basically is? Focus the point on what you see as important and force the other to answer the point? You'll only feel cornered if you don't want to answer because you've realised your point is off mark.
As long as you're not introducing the infamous straw man it's perfectly valid :handshake:
Just an opinion of course.
apparently Kaka will generate 70million euros a year for real madrid in extra marketing apparently
Isn't that what debating basically is? Focus the point on what you see as important and force the other to answer the point? You'll only feel cornered if you don't want to answer because you've realised your point is off mark.
As long as you're not introducing the infamous straw man it's perfectly valid :handshake:
Just an opinion of course.
Yeah but I was replying to Tee's assumption that Real Madrid are the biggest club in Spain right now, it's clear that they're not, but let's not go over the semantics of what being a 'big' club means again. Never wanted to do a meal over this anyway but it's turned out to be because some argumentative twats wanted it this way. :handshake:
Corner you? :haha: If you want to express some very odd views, be prepared to have people argue with them. I agree it's about how people define 'big' but when such a majority of people seem to be considering Madrid as the biggest club in the world, you might think to reconsider whether you might have the wrong end of the stick on this one.
As for the last point - sue them for what??
I'm starting to wonder if it's 1st April again. :o
'Odd views'? Just because I have a different view from the majority means that mine is flawed or odd? Come on Craig, stop being so simplistic.
I don't see the relative merits of Real's policies when they know they've got enormous resources to buy every player in the world. They go public about it just to force issues that they know they can't control. It's been proven by the Ronaldo affair, now they're doing the exact thing with Alonso. What's so fucking big about that? Disgraceful and pathetic for such a club.
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:21 PM
'Odd views'? Just because I have a different view from the majority means that mine is flawed or odd? Come on Craig, stop being so simplistic.
I don't see the relative merits of Real's policies when they know they've got enormous resources to buy every player in the world. They go public about it just to force issues that they know they can't control. It's been proven by the Ronaldo affair, now they're doing the exact thing with Alonso. What's so fucking big about that? Disgraceful and pathetic for such a club.
Oh FFS, let it go.
Oh FFS, let it go.
What's your problem old bone?
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:23 PM
You call other people argumentative when you're continuing the argument. :wall:
You call other people argumentative when you're continuing the argument. :wall:
That's only because I think I've been treated unfairly. I've gone an ego as big as your age. Oh ... :o
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:25 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3027/2287345400_843fe01241.jpg?v=0
:haha:
I think I'm getting too big for this site. I must go. :sigh:
Yeah but I was replying to Tee's assumption that Real Madrid are the biggest club in Spain right now, it's clear that they're not, but let's not go over the semantics of what being a 'big' club means again. Never wanted to do a meal over this anyway but it's turned out to be because some argumentative twats wanted it this way. :handshake:
They are the biggest club in Spain period. End of. :crackoff: :haha:
I mean, its not like they are sponsored by Kitbag is it? :haha: :haha:
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:36 PM
http://www.pantherkut.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/fat_cat_4.jpg
big
• adjective (bigger, biggest) 1 of considerable size, physical power, or extent. 2 of considerable importance or seriousness. 3 informal exciting great interest or popularity. 4 informal, often ironic generous: ‘That’s big of you!’ 5 Whatever the f*ck fredo wants it to mean as long as it has nothing to do with definitions 1-4
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/big?view=uk
:handshake:
They are the biggest club in Spain period. End of. :crackoff: :haha:
I mean, its not like they are sponsored by Kitbag is it? :haha: :haha:
Kitbags flmao :haha::haha:
http://barnsdale.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/white-fat-cat.jpg
:handshake:
:haha:
Joe King
10-06-09, 01:46 PM
I have finally figured it out. fredo is actually Richard Keys.
I have finally figured it out. fredo is actually Richard Keys.
And you are Tiger Woods.
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:49 PM
And you are Tiger Woods.
Now that's a big cat.
Joe King
10-06-09, 01:51 PM
Now that's a big cat.
Richard Keys, on the other hand, (no pun intended) is a hairy gimp.
Neil Young
10-06-09, 01:56 PM
Richard Keys, on the other hand, (no pun intended) is a hairy gimp.
http://www.calitan.net/bristol.jpg
Now that's a big cat.
Indeed, not the impersonator though, he looks ridiculous.
Because they're NOT the biggest club in Spain at this point in time, rather they're a club in decline. How much money have they splashed during the last 5 years? Lots of it, still they haven't won much.
It's a mess of a club IMO. For a club of so much financial resources they haven't been able to bring much needed stability to the club, even though they've had their fair share of very good managers lately. Del Bosque, Schuster, Juande Ramos and now Pelligrini.
Trigger happy directors looking for instant success, based on political manoeuvres which you'll only see in Spain.
Ferguson is right (for once), they're a repulsive club.
God you talk shit sometimes Fredo.
Madrid a club in decline! :haha: What? because they didnt win the league this season?? :haha:
They are along with Man Utd and Milan the most known clubs in the world.
EwarWoo
10-06-09, 02:06 PM
Never wanted to do a meal over this anyway but it's turned out to be because some argumentative twats wanted it this way. :handshake:
Well, if you weren't an argumentative twat too it would have just been some people shouting "you're wrong" at ya.
Takes 2 to argue ;)
But then I suppose I'm being a pedantic argumentative twat now too :taxi:
Neil Young
10-06-09, 02:11 PM
Well, if you weren't an argumentative twat too it would have just been some people shouting "you're wrong" at ya.
Takes 2 to argue ;)
But then I suppose I'm being a pedantic argumentative twat now too :taxi:
Cockney rhyming slang.
Yeah but I was replying to Tee's assumption that Real Madrid are the biggest club in Spain right now, it's clear that they're not, but let's not go over the semantics of what being a 'big' club means again. Never wanted to do a meal over this anyway but it's turned out to be because some argumentative twats wanted it this way. :handshake:
What do you expect when you start a thread talking shit?? :haha::haha:
Madrid are the BIGGEST club in Spain....and the world even. There is no fucking argument here. They weren't the best in Spain this season.
Biggest and best are two completely fucking different words. :handshake:
fucking hell
Neil Young
10-06-09, 02:19 PM
I have finally figured it out. fredo is actually Richard Keys.
No he isn't. Proof:
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL19/924030/3390609/43236156.jpg
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:20 PM
'Odd views'? Just because I have a different view from the majority means that mine is flawed or odd? Come on Craig, stop being so simplistic.
They're odd to me. I can only present my views according to how i see things. If other people think they're normal or not odd, they can say so.
Most people seem to have disagreed with your assessment of Madrid's 'size' as a club, so your views are certainly in the minority, if nothing else.
By definition, that makes your views 'out of the ordinary'.
I don't see the relative merits of Real's policies when they know they've got enormous resources to buy every player in the world. They go public about it just to force issues that they know they can't control. It's been proven by the Ronaldo affair, now they're doing the exact thing with Alonso. What's so fucking big about that? Disgraceful and pathetic for such a club.
Disgraceful and pathetic? Perhaps, it can be debated.
But it has no bearing on the size of the club. In other words, you're using these transfer tactics as an argument to suggest they're not a big club, when it's got nothing to do with whether they're a big club or not.
I dont think many people with the most remote knowledge of football, would suggest that Madrid ARENT a massive club, or the biggest in Spain.
In fact, only a very small number of people (and Man Utd fans) would probably question the observation that Madrid are the biggest club in the world, let alone in Spain.
What do you expect when you start a thread talking shit?? :haha::haha:
Madrid are the BIGGEST club in Spain....and the world even. There is no fucking argument here. They weren't the best in Spain this season.
Biggest and best are two completely fucking different words. :handshake:
fucking hell
http://www.dailypoopoo.com/images/poo/Poo-8847.jpg
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:21 PM
God you talk shit sometimes Fredo.
:handshake:
Although 'sometimes' is generous :D :crackoff:
They're odd to me. I can only present my views according to how i see things. If other people think they're normal or not odd, they can say so.
Most people seem to have disagreed with your assessment of Madrid's 'size' as a club, so your views are certainly in the minority, if nothing else.
By definition, that makes your views 'out of the ordinary'.
Disgraceful and pathetic? Perhaps, it can be debated.
But it has no bearing on the size of the club. In other words, you're using these transfer tactics as an argument to suggest they're not a big club, when it's got nothing to do with whether they're a big club or not.
I dont think many people with the most remote knowledge of football, would suggest that Madrid ARENT a massive club, or the biggest in Spain.
In fact, only a very small number of people (and Man Utd fans) would probably question the observation that Madrid are the biggest club in the world, let alone in Spain.
Why bring Man Utd fans into that?
Most Liverpool fans would consider LFC to be the biggest club in world football, it's all subjective.
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:29 PM
Why bring Man Utd fans into that?
Erm...because i was talking about which groups of people (as a majority) might NOT consider Madrid the biggest club in the world - and some Man Utd fans might come into that category
Most Liverpool fans would consider LFC to be the biggest club in world football, it's all subjective.
No they wouldnt.
Why bring Man Utd fans into that?
Most Liverpool fans would consider LFC to be the biggest club in world football, it's all subjective.
no....it isnt.
Im a Liverpool fan, have been for many years. We are a huge club worldwide...but not in Madrid's league, unfortunately.
I dont see what Perez has done wrong saying he wants Ronaldo and Xabi:eyebrow: Thats what its all about at the top clubs. Getting the best players available.
http://www.dailypoopoo.com/images/poo/Poo-8847.jpg
you need to eat more fibre...that one snapped off mid shit....would have been wiping for ages :handshake:
Erm...because i was talking about which groups of people (as a majority) might NOT consider Madrid the biggest club in the world - and some Man Utd fans might come into that category
No they wouldnt.
Oh yes they would. Isn't your mantra 'passion' in the end, one you always argue I'm lacking of?
And yes, Man Utd fans are easy targets too.
no....it isnt.
Im a Liverpool fan, have been for many years. We are a huge club worldwide...but not in Madrid's league, unfortunately.
I dont see what Perez has done wrong saying he wants Ronaldo and Xabi:eyebrow: Thats what its all about at the top clubs. Getting the best players available.
Perez and Real are a laughing stock. It's not ethical to go public about transfer dealings because this forces the issue and destabilizes the player. Why should they be different than anybody else?
Ferguson may be a twat but he's right. What about Valdano's comments about us being a team which plays shit football? Fucking pathetic.
Dunno why you've got to defend them, maybe because you're spanish?
you need to eat more fibre...that one snapped off mid shit....would have been wiping for ages :handshake:
I wished I could drop it somewhere else ...
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:42 PM
Oh yes they would. Isn't your mantra 'passion' in the end, one you always argue I'm lacking of? No, they wouldnt.
100% is the figure so far, that disagree with you:
http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=1355404#post1355404
There's passion, and then there's stating factually incorrect nonsense.
Passion doesnt mean talking nonsense.
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:43 PM
Perez and Real are a laughing stock. It's not ethical to go public about transfer dealings because this forces the issue and destabilizes the player. Why should they be different than anybody else?
Ferguson may be a twat but he's right. What about Valdano's comments about us being a team which plays shit football? Fucking pathetic.
Dunno why you've got to defend them, maybe because you're spanish?
Foolish comments doesnt make someone 'not big'.
Otherwise you'd be Tom Thumb :crackoff:
Perez and Real are a laughing stock. It's not ethical to go public about transfer dealings because this forces the issue and destabilizes the player. Why should they be different than anybody else?
Ferguson may be a twat but he's right. What about Valdano's comments about us being a team which plays shit football? Fucking pathetic.
Dunno why you've got to defend them, maybe because you're spanish?
We did the exact same thing last summer to Gareth Barry and Villa. Unsettled him...and then didn't even do the deal.
Every club does it. Ferguson does it, and then had the audacity to cry wolf when a bigger club did it to him.
Valdano was right. We did play some horrendously boring football. Boring as fuck for the neutrals.
Im a closet Madrid fan:handshake:
Craig_H
10-06-09, 02:50 PM
Fuck right off.
:haha:
Might be time to draw a line under this one and just admit you were wrong.
I didn't expect the outcry to be honest, my post was not significant amidst the whole fucking thread. But you've all wanted it to be this way; put me on a stick and shit with it.
Fucking hell, you all knew where I wanted to go but made that a fucking drama.
Right this is getting stupid. If the tone doesn't improve I'm going to lock the thread.
To be fair to fredo he didn't start the thread I split it from the Alonso thread where it was derailing an otherwise decent discussion. Maybe highlighting the issue was a mistake but I found some of the talk of marketing etc interesting and worthy of discussion.
Craig_H
10-06-09, 04:53 PM
There's been nothing wrong with the tone really, aside from fredo being told outright that he was wrong, and now he's upset about it, so the 'tone' of the thread is being questioned.
Nobody's got abusive, nobody's going round swearing at anyone or attacking them.
Unless simply telling someone they're in the wrong about something is against the tone, i dont get why the thread should be locked. If i've missed something, then i'm happy to be told.
I didn't expect the outcry to be honest, my post was not significant amidst the whole fucking thread. But you've all wanted it to be this way; put me on a stick and shit with it.
Fucking hell, you all knew where I wanted to go but made that a fucking drama.
http://http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W610USsqL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
Neil Young
10-06-09, 05:02 PM
I don't think fredo needs to admit he's wrong. I just wish he'd stop arguing he's right.
Ok lock this thread now. Water off a ducks back at the end of the day, everybody can be wrong; what's wrong with that. :handshake:
Craig_H
10-06-09, 05:07 PM
He doesnt need to admit he's wrong, because it's clear without any such admission :D
Joking aside though, i'm not bothered what he admits, but when he gets all menstrual about it simply because virtually everyone's told him he's got it wrong, that's silly.
Ok lock this thread now. Water off a ducks back at the end of the day, everybody can be wrong; what's wrong with that. :handshake:
Anyone can be wrong, no problem there, and water off a duck's back - fair play. What's the need to lock it though?
Neil Young
10-06-09, 05:08 PM
Ok lock this thread now. Water off a ducks back at the end of the day, everybody can be wrong; what's wrong with that. :handshake:
:handshake:
http://jimcofer.com/personal/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/cat_duck.jpg
http://www.downtownpet.com/blog/uploaded_images/smiling-german-sheperd-dog-725593.jpg
What's the need to lock it though?
I've been raped already, no need to do more harm. :handshake:
:handshake:
http://jimcofer.com/personal/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/cat_duck.jpg
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/c/cuddling-1942.jpg
:handshake:
Neil Young
10-06-09, 05:11 PM
http://images.paraorkut.com/img/pics/images/c/cuddling-1942.jpg
:handshake:
I have to say you're not the only one I wish would stop arguing their point.
I have to say you're not the only one I wish would stop arguing their point.
:handshake:
http://www.dailypets.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/picohug2.jpg
Right ok
Craig has been proven right
Neil got to post some pictures of dogs
Fredo is..Fredo
Happy happy joy joy
Right ok
Craig has been proven right
Neil got to post some pictures of dogs
Fredo is..Fredo
Happy happy joy joy
Now don't let me start on this. :eyebrow:
Neil Young
10-06-09, 05:18 PM
Right ok
Craig has been proven right
Neil got to post some pictures of dogs
Fredo is..Fredo
Happy happy joy joy
:shake:
I also have been proven right.
And you, young William, have once again proved yourself quite out of your depth. I have not posted any pictures of dogs in this thread.
:crackoff:
Well I've probably missed a few tangents, but Real Madrid are quite obviously the biggest club in Spain
:shake:
I also have been proven right.
And you, young William, have once again proved yourself quite out of your depth. I have not posted any pictures of dogs in this thread.
:crackoff:
Orly? :D
Well I've probably missed a few tangents, but Real Madrid are quite obviously the biggest club in Spain
but are they the biggest club in the world?
http://http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/smart-bomb-6.jpg
Craig_H
10-06-09, 05:31 PM
I've been raped already, no need to do more harm. :handshake:
It's not about doing harm, or even you. The topic of Madrid's revenue generating potential vs the spending is an interesting one and as the summer continues and more signings are possibly completed, it'll still be a worthwhile topic.
Neil Young
10-06-09, 05:32 PM
Orly? :D
:D
It's not about doing harm, or even you. The topic of Madrid's revenue generating potential vs the spending is an interesting one and as the summer continues and more signings are possibly completed, it'll still be a worthwhile topic.
:handshake:
Vermilion
13-06-09, 11:22 AM
Was just having a conversation about Madrid, and the merits of what they are attempting to do, and the biggest plus of all this i believe, apart from Ronaldo leaving UTD, is that with Chelsea and Utd wanting to spend on top names, the more Madrid buy up the better for us.
If we cant afford to buy the 'Villas' of this world, then i hope they all end up at Real.
Levels the playing field for next season somewhat imo.
SimonNo7
13-06-09, 11:42 AM
Real Madrid? A big club?
Most definitely. They have all the ingredients and have just added to them with the 40m Euros signing of David Villa!
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