Real Madrid - A big club? (Warning: may contain dog pictures)

[dww]

It's talking about youth setups though isn't it? I can see the point you are making though that Real from top to bottom have a different philosophy from Barcelona one which values individuals higher than a more joined together approach. I definitely think we need in future to move our club in the direction of what Barcelona have achieved in more recent times.

[Guest]

My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?

Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negates the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.

[Guest]

It's talking about youth setups though isn't it? I can see the point you are making though that Real from top to bottom have a different philosophy from Barcelona one which values individuals higher than a more joined together approach. I definitely think we need in future to move our club in the direction of what Barcelona have achieved in more recent times.

Yes its about youth setups and doing things properly. I'm not sure at all about Madrid generating huge revenues from their fanbase, I think its pretty relative anyway. By doing a simple comparison between the greatest club, I don't think they can state for certain that they've got many more fans, it's a fairly insignificant margin if ever there's one.

Not sure also they have done what it takes to be successful in a marketing sense, I am implying, just by seeing how badly they're run as a team that this can be translated in other sectors.

Madrid has been a mystery along the years. There are more questions than answers as regards to them, IMO.

[dww]

My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?

Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negatives the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.

I can see what you are saying but as many teams over the years have illustrated (not least the Madrid galacticos) there is more to building a team than just buying the best players. Creating a great team is an achievement no matter who you are.

The simple fact is though that the Madrid splurge cash on players approach is not one we can emulate and other models have worked in the past. The alternative also has the benefits of eventually being self sustaining and being more romantic (which is I suspect the root of your preference for it).

[Guest]

I can see what you are saying but as many teams over the years have illustrated (not least the Madrid galacticos) there is more to building a team than just buying the best players. Creating a great team is an achievement no matter who you are.

The simple fact is though that the Madrid splurge cash on players approach is not one we can emulate and other models have worked in the past. The alternative also has the benefits of eventually being self sustaining and being more romantic (which is I suspect the root of your preference for it).

Madrid haven't achieved that for years though, despite winning La Liga with Capello in charge, he got dumped for it. Basically you only need a capable coach for building a good team, I guess Madrid don't have a problem finding one. Still, they've got no real continuity.

I am not sure neither that their business model is sustainable, as I can't see them raking in that much revenue to cover their arses. As you've said, they've been bailed out in the past and what are the chances of this happening again? At that rate, must be pretty good.

Yes they've got a huge stadium, but at the end of the day, if you let them, they'll end up buying Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Silva, Villa etc ... for a combined fee of £300m. How is that sustainable mate?

[Scratch]

Yes they've got a huge stadium, but at the end of the day, if you let them, they'll end up buying Ronaldo, Kaka, Alonso, Silva, Villa etc ... for a combined fee of £300m. How is that sustainable mate?

Do they not also insist that any player who plays for them signs over all rights to their image as well? Add on to that revenue from shirt sales and other memorabilia and you will find that a lot of players basically pay for themselves.

[Craig_H]

Can anyone tell where Madrid get all their money for funding these big money deals? In these tough economic times god knows who finances them. **** all to do with their history of winning trophies. They work so hard destabilizing clubs by going public about who they want to buy. Glamorous for a club that big.

I dont know why you're now bringing up the source of their money and the idea of them going public about their targets, it has very little to do with the fact that they're the biggest club in the world. It seems like you're now changing the tone of your argument towards this money thing and going public, away from your previous argument about them not being a big and great club.

I now have no idea what point you're actually making, whereas before i knew what you were saying, even though it wasnt really accurate.

[Tee]

I dont know why you're now bringing up the source of their money and the idea of them going public about their targets, it has very little to do with the fact that they're the biggest club in the world. It seems like you're now changing the tone of your argument towards this money thing and going public, away from your previous argument about them not being a big and great club.

I now have no idea what point you're actually making, whereas before i knew what you were saying, even though it wasnt really accurate.

You have tied him into a knot. Let him be now.

[Craig_H]

My stance is this. Doing business this way (like Madrid does - with dodgy funding sources etc), where's the merit in building a great team?

Maybe Craig and others can try to answer that question, instead of gratuitously lauding Real Madrid's merits. They may have had a history of great teams and great players (and so does other clubs) but 'how' they achieved that is the main point. When you've got an advantage financially, it kinds of negates the relatives merit a club has when achieving success.

Maybe if that was the question you'd asked before, we might've answered it. It's taken you about a day to finally work out what question you were asking or point you were making.

Why is the source of their funding 'dodgy' ? It's uncommon, certainly with regards to selling off their training complex and then renting it back free of charge from the state, but then, they're a sporting symbol of the state and the sporting representatives of the Spanish Monarchy, so it's not dodgy in any way.

The money they're getting for this summer's transfers seems to be in the form of loans from Spanish financial institutions, the national bank and the government. In the current climate, borrowing is difficult but if the financial institutions consider Real Madrid CF to be a safe company to lend money to, it's their decision. I still dont see how that is dodgy.

As for financial advantages and the idea that they make any achievement less worthy or not worthwhile, then i find that a strange argument, as such advantages have always in football.

We had financial advantages in previous decades when we broke records to sign the likes of Rush, Beardsley, Collymore and others. Do you consider our previous achievements to be therefore without merit?

My only problem with moneybags clubs 'buying' titles, is when the money hasnt been earnt or generated by the club - eg Chelsea and now Man City, money handed down that's the footballing equivalent of winning the lottery, it required no effort or intelligent business practices to generate it.

With United, their money is largely the result of clever marketing and effective revenue-generating business practices. With clubs who have borrowed money, they've earnt the ability to be considered a safe investment by the banks, through the effective financial management of their businesses, which has put them in a position whereby they're considered solid and safe enough to lend money to.

Madrid is in this category, due to the sheer scale of the club and the reputation it has as being an enormous sporting institution, and this position has been reached through various different techniques of marketing, planning and such like. Nothing dodgy about it for me.

Your previous posts never highlighted the 'how they achieved their success' point, you were sticking with the notion that they werent the biggest club in Spain (which was a strange comment) and how they werent a great club, until you then decided they actually WERE a great club. Had you initially asked the question of how they earned their status and reached their successes, it would've been discussed before.

Now you've put that question across, and i've put forward my views on it.

[Craig_H]

Yes its about youth setups and doing things properly. I'm not sure at all about Madrid generating huge revenues from their fanbase, I think its pretty relative anyway. By doing a simple comparison between the greatest club, I don't think they can state for certain that they've got many more fans, it's a fairly insignificant margin if ever there's one.

Not sure also they have done what it takes to be successful in a marketing sense, I am implying, just by seeing how badly they're run as a team that this can be translated in other sectors.

Madrid has been a mystery along the years. There are more questions than answers as regards to them, IMO.

They make plenty through their fanbase, with merchandising and other exercises which exploit their huge brand value. When i was over there in February, i visited their club shop and it's pretty massive, on three floors IIRC, and it was doing a roaring trade, very busy. It was all very glamourous and 'glossy' looking, and from just that one site, it was easy to see the Madrid marketing and promotions machine in full swing. The scale to which this has a positive financial impact on them was clear.

You've taken some footballing based mistakes and assumed that they must be equally inadequate in their off-field marketing based strategies, but that's a very bold assumption to make, with no solid foundations and from what i've seen, there's little substance or basis to such assumptions.

I dont see them as a mystery at all, they're a huge institution and one which seems to me, to be exploiting every avenue of their finance generating potential.

[Craig_H]

Fredo mate, i think you might be underestimating how much cash the image-sales of 'galactico' type players can generate. They did it before with the likes of Figo, Zidane and Beckham, and they're doing it again now. Players like this are idolised as god-like figures by a significant number of people, and this equals huge money. Ronaldo and Kaka are in this category too, as are players like Torres, who Madrid would spunk their load at the chance of signing, because they'd absolutely milk tonnes of cash from using his image.

Such players become almost separate 'brands' themselves - we saw it with Beckham, there was a time where you could paint his image onto a turd, and it'd probably sell.

That's where the value is for Madrid. Most clubs obviously do the whole 'named shirts' bit, but Madrid take it to the extreme, with all manner of random non-football based goods bearing the image and name of their stars. Plenty of people snap them up and the simple equation is that if you have enough of these stars and put their names and faces on enough different products (whether they're football related or not), you'll make a fortune.

[dww]

Fredo mate, i think you might be underestimating how much cash the image-sales of 'galactico' type players can generate. They did it before with the likes of Figo, Zidane and Beckham, and they're doing it again now. Players like this are idolised as god-like figures by a significant number of people, and this equals huge money. Ronaldo and Kaka are in this category too, as are players like Torres, who Madrid would spunk their load at the chance of signing, because they'd absolutely milk tonnes of cash from using his image.

Such players become almost separate 'brands' themselves - we saw it with Beckham, there was a time where you could paint his image onto a turd, and it'd probably sell.

That's where the value is for Madrid. Most clubs obviously do the whole 'named shirts' bit, but Madrid take it to the extreme, with all manner of random non-football based goods bearing the image and name of their stars. Plenty of people snap them up and the simple equation is that if you have enough of these stars and put their names and faces on enough different products (whether they're football related or not), you'll make a fortune.

See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.

[PTP]

See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.

I am sure I read somewhere that when they signed beckham, they went to asia and made £10m in 3 days there.

[RedReet]

I am sure I read somewhere that when they signed beckham, they went to asia and made £10m in 3 days there.

I'm sure Beckham was sore after that!

[red g]

See this is the question I want answered - did it work last time or did it make them go hugely into debt and then get bailed out by the King/local government? I imagine they won't be selling their training ground for a hugely inflated price in the current economic climate.

Here you go ..........


Real Madrid's revenue from club merchandise, such as shirts, jumped 67 per cent in Beckham's first season alone, and climbed another 6.5 per cent in the year to June. Overall commercial income, which includes money from deals with the likes of Siemens, Adidas and Pepsi, which have all grown in value with the "Beckham effect", now stands at around £80m a year. Real Madrid also earned £48m (26 per cent of turnover) from match-day income (primarily ticket sales), £44m (24 per cent) from television, and £16m (8 per cent) from promotional activities such as lucrative overseas tours and friendliness, which have also become better earners because of David Beckham. And whereas Real Madrid's annual wage bill (£98m) now equates to 52 per cent of turnover, and is falling towards an expected ratio of 47 per cent next year.
With the financial improvement, Real Madrid is now the richest club in the world, beating Manchester United who won the title 8th consecutive years.


Full document if you can be arsed .......some student did a study on it

web.unbc.ca/~chenj/course/project/DavidBeckham.doc