Being a football supporter

[knockers]

Generally I'd say no, you support the team, but last night was different. This has been esculating for years now. When you play for England, you're playing for your country, you're picked because you are the best the country can produce.

But too many times over the years we've seen the national squad give up after the first twenty minutes, with the exception of when England went down to ten men against Portugal last year. But it is the norm for players to go through the motions, and that is by no means unique to this current crop of players, it's been the same for decades.

I think it's about bloody time the England fans let the FA, manager and players know what they think, because actually it's what we all think.

Politely clapping changes nothing.

The crowd did get behind the team, once they actually started to show some spirit.

Last night was unique, I doubt we'll get the same reaction with a larger crowd. But it was a wake up call all the same.

Good post

[anfieldanfield]

Generally I'd say no, you support the team, but last night was different. This has been esculating for years now. When you play for England, you're playing for your country, you're picked because you are the best the country can produce.

But too many times over the years we've seen the national squad give up after the first twenty minutes, with the exception of when England went down to ten men against Portugal last year. But it is the norm for players to go through the motions, and that is by no means unique to this current crop of players, it's been the same for decades.

I think it's about bloody time the England fans let the FA, manager and players know what they think, because actually it's what we all think.

Politely clapping changes nothing.

The crowd did get behind the team, once they actually started to show some spirit.

Last night was unique, I doubt we'll get the same reaction with a larger crowd. But it was a wake up call all the same.

Spot on.



I can understand why the England fans reacted as they did, this has been simmering for the best part of a decade.

The 'golden generation' will end up trophyless.

[Bob]

England aside, i think LFC is the exception to the rule (unless souness took over again).

I have never ever booed a team in my life and i've seen some woeful stuff where there has been booing (not just LFC i.e. loughgall FC, NI etc.)

Similarly, whole sections of those 'other' fans have been chanting easy, easy etc... I can't bring myself to do it despite being caught up in the moment.

I digress. If i were an England fan... i'd hang myself. No seriously, i'd be pretty pissed off with the incumbent set-up all the way to the FA, and i'd feel justified in venting my feelings in whatever way i see fit.

I can't decide.

[Rich]

Booing is out of order - far more effective would be to boycott the match.

The FA would soon sit up and notice.

[Red_Polo]

Booing at FT is one thing, but doing it at HT between singing songs that rip your own team is sheer cuntery.

[Farside]

Let the other teams fans do the slagging, support your team.

[dww]

Booing at FT is one thing, but doing it at HT between singing songs that rip your own team is sheer cuntery.

I really think that the fans were entitled, considering they were playing a side which contained 9 non-full time player it was a disgraceful performance from England. The players didn't look fussed and I rarely thin that. It was terrible, and it wasn't a one off. It depends what the songs were but to be honest every single England player should have gone in at half time and ripped themselves to shreds.

It is one thing to support the players playing for your team depite adversity if they are trying and doing as well as they can but to be honest for far too long the players selected for England have felt they deserve the support of people without doing anything to earn it.

[anfieldanfield]

Let the other teams fans do the slagging, support your team.

That's quite easy for us to say though, isn't it ?

We're the most succesful side in British football history a golden history littered with trophies.

[Mumsafan]

That's quite easy for us to say though, isn't it ?

We're the most succesful side in British football history a golden history littered with trophies.

Good isn't it?

[anfieldanfield]

Good isn't it?

It's ace.

[anfieldanfield]

I usually like Simon Barnes, but I think he's hopelessly wide of the mark with this rant..

"It was an evening that confirmed me as a Steve McClaren fan. I shall sing his praises wherever I go. He has my unequivocal backing in everything he does in his job as England head coach. I shall defend him in the face of all opinion and, for that matter, all evidence, as a tactical mastermind and a man-manager of genius. He is a hero of the beautiful game. I shall hang on his every word and laud him to the heavens as a wit, a sage, a savant. Steve, I am your man.

Anything, rather than be counted with the England fans.

By England fans, I don’t mean you and me and all the millions of us who watched on the sofa and chuntered and grumped and wondered where on earth a bloody goal was coming from. I mean, quite specifically, the peculiar group of people who went to Barcelona to watch the match against Andorra.

No, let me rephrase that. I mean the peculiar group of people who went to Barcelona for a good old hate. One question: why on earth should McClaren give himself up to self-abuse when there are so many prepared to do the abusing for him?

It began within 15 minutes. There was no thought of encouraging the players — come on, chaps, you can do it, we’re right behind you. This was a group of people hungry for hate, waiting for the first moment in which they could legitimately begin to express their hatred.

It was an absolutely poisonous occasion. And though the players got plenty of hard words, the worst were reserved for McClaren. It seemed that a vast proportion of more than 10,000 England supporters who had made the trip did so with the express intention of revelling in 90 minutes of roaring, boozy hatred.

Odd way to spend your spare cash. But what vexes me about this Nastiness Festival is the way that a bunch of abusive drunks fancy themselves as the Voice of Britain. They saw themselves as the Average Fan; better than that, the Real Fan, the football follower prepared to spend time and money to watch the team abroad.

This is something, they believe, that gives them the right to pass judgment. They must be heard and obeyed. Vox populi, vox FA. It’s more than mere abuse the fans offer, it is a genuine belief that their boozy, half-baked, ill-expressed views deserve to carry real weight in the lives of men and in the progress of the football team.

If I were McClaren I would wish bitterly that I had never agreed to take on this stupid job in the first place. And if I were a player, I would wish never to play football for these people again, never to put my heart and soul on the line for people such as this. You could see the mood of sourness sweeping through the England side, a corporate feeling of “Hell, we don’t need this. We’ve got clubs and titles to play for elsewhere.”

I always thought that the idea of “supporting” a team was connected with the notion that it would fall down without you, that you were part of the team and vice versa. That’s why football fans always speak in the first person plural. But this was the opposite of support. This was a wrecking ball. This was a bunch of people who, having first got drunk with mere drink, then got drunk with power.

It is considered a basic human right in football — the right of the paying supporter to behave in a vile and abusive fashion. It is one of those little caveats that all football people slip in when asked to comment on abuse: “They’ve paid for their seats, they have a right to their views.” A right to views, yes, but do they really have a right to hideous, violent and personal abuse?

It is something that goes without question in football, but there aren’t many other walks of life in which the outlay of a few quid gives you the same right. Admission to the Berlin Philharmonic doesn’t give the right to shout “Simon Rattle is a w****r” during a pianissimo.

But I am not writing these words as a class thing. This is not a middle-class condemnation of the proles. I am not here to insist that a better way of spending an evening in Barcelona is to sip Rioja and discuss Dali, Miró and GaudÍ out on the Ramblas. Rather, I would like to point out that vile behaviour is vile behaviour whether perpetrated by Etonians or the salt of the earth. I think it is worth pointing out that drunken abuse is vile no matter what the context, that there are better ways of spending an evening and better ways of watching football. Why should we tolerate abusive behaviour? Why should we accept that a drunken mob has some kind of moral force behind it?

Football fans love to play the part of football fans. They will act out wild orgies of loyalty, singing themselves sore in defeat and demotion, offering protestations of eternal support, and eternal love. Two years ago, in the semi-finals of the Champions League, Chelsea were defeated entirely by song at Anfield as Liverpool fans hammed their socks off as Faithful Liverpool Supporters, people to whom a solitary walk will be for ever unknown.

Fans will adopt a player and cherish him capriciously, as Chelsea supporters adored Robert Huth, not for his skill, but for clumsy and unstinting efforts to please. All these things have their roots in the joy in belonging, in sharing, in being part of a whole.

The reverse side of the same coin is the synchronised hating, the feeling that hatred and abuse are perfectly acceptable when taking place in numbers. What would be vile if performed by an individual is considered just and right and true and fair when performed by many.

This feeling is not something I can share. These people are not speaking for me. Nor, I suspect, are they speaking for most of us, those of us who contribute our millions to the England cause by sitting on the sofa and cheering and chuntering.

I have felt that McClaren was a man out of his depth from the moment of his appointment. But he can now count me as his most loyal supporter. Where the mob leads, I tend to steer away from at an angle of 180 degrees. So does every sane person.

The worst of it all is the self-righteousness, the drunken mob’s belief in its own essential rightness and goodness. Well, if that’s the voice of right, give me wrong any day. If that’s the voice of sanity, give me madness. I am hereby enrolled as the only member of Steve McClaren’s Barmy Army: a mob of a single person, the one amigo. I’ll support him evermore. I am prepared to believe that he walks on water. I want McClaren in — if only to spite the poisonous *******s of Barcelona."

[Shaggy]

I usually like Simon Barnes, but I think he's hopelessly wide of the mark with this rant..

"It was an evening that confirmed me as a Steve McClaren fan. I shall sing his praises wherever I go. He has my unequivocal backing in everything he does in his job as England head coach. I shall defend him in the face of all opinion and, for that matter, all evidence, as a tactical mastermind and a man-manager of genius. He is a hero of the beautiful game. I shall hang on his every word and laud him to the heavens as a wit, a sage, a savant. Steve, I am your man.

Anything, rather than be counted with the England fans.

By England fans, I don’t mean you and me and all the millions of us who watched on the sofa and chuntered and grumped and wondered where on earth a bloody goal was coming from. I mean, quite specifically, the peculiar group of people who went to Barcelona to watch the match against Andorra.

No, let me rephrase that. I mean the peculiar group of people who went to Barcelona for a good old hate. One question: why on earth should McClaren give himself up to self-abuse when there are so many prepared to do the abusing for him?

It began within 15 minutes. There was no thought of encouraging the players — come on, chaps, you can do it, we’re right behind you. This was a group of people hungry for hate, waiting for the first moment in which they could legitimately begin to express their hatred.

It was an absolutely poisonous occasion. And though the players got plenty of hard words, the worst were reserved for McClaren. It seemed that a vast proportion of more than 10,000 England supporters who had made the trip did so with the express intention of revelling in 90 minutes of roaring, boozy hatred.

Odd way to spend your spare cash. But what vexes me about this Nastiness Festival is the way that a bunch of abusive drunks fancy themselves as the Voice of Britain. They saw themselves as the Average Fan; better than that, the Real Fan, the football follower prepared to spend time and money to watch the team abroad.

This is something, they believe, that gives them the right to pass judgment. They must be heard and obeyed. Vox populi, vox FA. It’s more than mere abuse the fans offer, it is a genuine belief that their boozy, half-baked, ill-expressed views deserve to carry real weight in the lives of men and in the progress of the football team.

If I were McClaren I would wish bitterly that I had never agreed to take on this stupid job in the first place. And if I were a player, I would wish never to play football for these people again, never to put my heart and soul on the line for people such as this. You could see the mood of sourness sweeping through the England side, a corporate feeling of “Hell, we don’t need this. We’ve got clubs and titles to play for elsewhere.”

I always thought that the idea of “supporting” a team was connected with the notion that it would fall down without you, that you were part of the team and vice versa. That’s why football fans always speak in the first person plural. But this was the opposite of support. This was a wrecking ball. This was a bunch of people who, having first got drunk with mere drink, then got drunk with power.

It is considered a basic human right in football — the right of the paying supporter to behave in a vile and abusive fashion. It is one of those little caveats that all football people slip in when asked to comment on abuse: “They’ve paid for their seats, they have a right to their views.” A right to views, yes, but do they really have a right to hideous, violent and personal abuse?

It is something that goes without question in football, but there aren’t many other walks of life in which the outlay of a few quid gives you the same right. Admission to the Berlin Philharmonic doesn’t give the right to shout “Simon Rattle is a w****r” during a pianissimo.

But I am not writing these words as a class thing. This is not a middle-class condemnation of the proles. I am not here to insist that a better way of spending an evening in Barcelona is to sip Rioja and discuss Dali, Miró and GaudÍ out on the Ramblas. Rather, I would like to point out that vile behaviour is vile behaviour whether perpetrated by Etonians or the salt of the earth. I think it is worth pointing out that drunken abuse is vile no matter what the context, that there are better ways of spending an evening and better ways of watching football. Why should we tolerate abusive behaviour? Why should we accept that a drunken mob has some kind of moral force behind it?

Football fans love to play the part of football fans. They will act out wild orgies of loyalty, singing themselves sore in defeat and demotion, offering protestations of eternal support, and eternal love. Two years ago, in the semi-finals of the Champions League, Chelsea were defeated entirely by song at Anfield as Liverpool fans hammed their socks off as Faithful Liverpool Supporters, people to whom a solitary walk will be for ever unknown.

Fans will adopt a player and cherish him capriciously, as Chelsea supporters adored Robert Huth, not for his skill, but for clumsy and unstinting efforts to please. All these things have their roots in the joy in belonging, in sharing, in being part of a whole.

The reverse side of the same coin is the synchronised hating, the feeling that hatred and abuse are perfectly acceptable when taking place in numbers. What would be vile if performed by an individual is considered just and right and true and fair when performed by many.

This feeling is not something I can share. These people are not speaking for me. Nor, I suspect, are they speaking for most of us, those of us who contribute our millions to the England cause by sitting on the sofa and cheering and chuntering.

I have felt that McClaren was a man out of his depth from the moment of his appointment. But he can now count me as his most loyal supporter. Where the mob leads, I tend to steer away from at an angle of 180 degrees. So does every sane person.

The worst of it all is the self-righteousness, the drunken mob’s belief in its own essential rightness and goodness. Well, if that’s the voice of right, give me wrong any day. If that’s the voice of sanity, give me madness. I am hereby enrolled as the only member of Steve McClaren’s Barmy Army: a mob of a single person, the one amigo. I’ll support him evermore. I am prepared to believe that he walks on water. I want McClaren in — if only to spite the poisonous *******s of Barcelona."

Couldn't have put it better myself. Sums up how I feel about those England morons perfectly.

[hertsred]

I thought some of the England fans were over the top, but as others here have said, this has been building for a long time. When was the last time that an England team put together even one really good performance, let alone a string of good games. Even the excellent qualifying record under Sven was hard won, with a team that mostly looked as if it was just bumbling through, never dominating. Beckham gets heaps of praise for that free kick against greece, but no-one seems to remember the 90 minutes of utterly dire crap from England that came first, including from the scumboy.

That said, i wouldn't pay money to go to barcelona to have a Mcloser hate-in. I just stay home, and when the game looks too bad, turn the telly off or leave the pub. That's the real trouble with England these days, they aren't even worth hating, they're just so BLAH.

[animal magic]

I thought some of the England fans were over the top, but as others here have said, this has been building for a long time. When was the last time that an England team put together even one really good performance, let alone a string of good games. Even the excellent qualifying record under Sven was hard won, with a team that mostly looked as if it was just bumbling through, never dominating. Beckham gets heaps of praise for that free kick against greece, but no-one seems to remember the 90 minutes of utterly dire crap from England that came first, including from the scumboy.

That said, i wouldn't pay money to go to barcelona to have a Mcloser hate-in. I just stay home, and when the game looks too bad, turn the telly off or leave the pub. That's the real trouble with England these days, they aren't even worth hating, they're just so BLAH.

when england beat germany 5-1

[Draxdor]

when england beat germany 5-1

You mean when LIVERPOOL beat Germany 5-1