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    #136
    Originally posted by AFII View Post
    He wasn't selling enough shirts so he didn't get a good enough new deal.

    It had nothing to do with Chelsea. If Real had offered him a good deal then he would have stayed.

    if chelsea hadn't gone after him he never would have left
    "I have decided to escape, to defy the shogun. Today I will begin walking the road to hell. But you will choose your own path. So, soon you may be seeing heaven. Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."

    "You would've been happier if you'd chosen to join your mother in her world. " - Ogami Itto

    Comment

      #137
      It was actually all his agents fault for going away on a 6 month holiday at a bad time.
      I like young women cos there stories are shorter!

      Comment

        #138
        Originally posted by AFII View Post
        He wasn't selling enough shirts so he didn't get a good enough new deal.

        It had nothing to do with Chelsea. If Real had offered him a good deal then he would have stayed.

        Originally posted by Diego View Post
        if chelsea hadn't gone after him he never would have left
        Real offered him £30k/week. That is a **** deal if you compere it to the other star players at Real. He is or was the best holding midfielder in the world so I can understand that he was and left Real.

        He would have left for another club than Chelsea if they hadn't been interested IMO. He was fed up and wanted out from Real.
        Just believe and you never know what will happen.

        According to Benitez it's important not simply to go out to win but to go out prepared to win, which means players have to put in the same level of work on a daily basis. Anything else is unacceptable.

        Comment

          #139
          Originally posted by Steve View Post
          It was actually all his agents fault for going away on a 6 month holiday at a bad time.
          Just believe and you never know what will happen.

          According to Benitez it's important not simply to go out to win but to go out prepared to win, which means players have to put in the same level of work on a daily basis. Anything else is unacceptable.

          Comment

            #140
            Originally posted by AFII View Post
            Real offered him £30k/week. That is a **** deal if you compere it to the other star players at Real. He is or was the best holding midfielder in the world so I can understand that he was and left Real.

            He would have left for another club than Chelsea if they hadn't been interested IMO. He was fed up and wanted out from Real.
            thought he was offered 60 whilst the others were offered 100
            "I have decided to escape, to defy the shogun. Today I will begin walking the road to hell. But you will choose your own path. So, soon you may be seeing heaven. Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball and you join your mother, in death. You don’t understand my words, but you must choose. So… come boy, choose life or death."

            "You would've been happier if you'd chosen to join your mother in her world. " - Ogami Itto

            Comment

              #141
              Originally posted by Red_Polo View Post
              Deliberately misleading people IS lying though, and that's what he did.
              How come I saw through it? I really can't help thinking that people saw what they wanted in what he said. He didn't mislead people - he said he wouldn't leave on a free and he didn't, he said there was no problem with the contract and there wasn't, he said he wouldn't go to another English club and he went to a Spanish one. If you read that as meaning he would stay at Liverpool you misled yourself.

              There is a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth.
              .
              Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



              May the Lord bless this post.

              Comment

                #142
                Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
                How come I saw through it?
                Maybe the force with you stong it is?

                Just when I discovered the meaning of life, they changed it

                Comment

                  #143
                  Originally posted by AFII View Post
                  Bloody hell, with an agent like that he was screwed from the start.

                  Comment

                    #144
                    Originally posted by Neil Young View Post
                    How come I saw through it? I really can't help thinking that people saw what they wanted in what he said. He didn't mislead people - he said he wouldn't leave on a free and he didn't, he said there was no problem with the contract and there wasn't, he said he wouldn't go to another English club and he went to a Spanish one. If you read that as meaning he would stay at Liverpool you misled yourself.

                    There is a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth.
                    But whether or not someone sees through it is irrelevant to whether they are lying or not. Saying people misled themselves sounds a little like people banning themselves.

                    Lying might not be black and white, some lies are obviously worse than others. But saying something not because you know it to be true but because you know it will mislead people in a way that suits your personal interests is quite obviously lying, to me. Not only were his statements lies, but they were lies which he knew went against the club's best interests. If this was about a politician misleading people in a similar way I suspect you might feel differently.
                    Last edited by Red_Polo; 13-04-07, 04:34 PM.
                    Like blood on iron

                    Comment

                      #145
                      Originally posted by Monkeywool View Post
                      Hmmmm but only a season or two then being frozen out and being flogged to city? Don't know if that is a glittering career, sure he won medals in the two years he played, then he was discarded
                      you clearly didn't pay any attention to my post. he was frozen out along with other top players like makelele due to the new galactico policy. while he was in the team he was brilliant. as i said, 4 major honors in 4 odd years at the club, is not bad at all. the basis of your argument was that no liverpool player has left and gone on to win anything. i get the feeling you wont agree anyway, so i'm not going to waste anymore time on this

                      Comment

                        #146
                        Wasn't an argument, more a musing, about who has had a good career after they left. McManaman won some trophies in the small time he played, but he was supposed to be in the prime of his career, instead he was playing second fiddle to Figo....
                        You walk down road.

                        Right side, ok. Left side ok. Through middle. Squish, just like grape.

                        Same with Karate.

                        Either you karate do yes, or karate do no. Karate do think so, squish. just like grape.

                        Comment

                          #147
                          Originally posted by Red_Polo View Post
                          But whether or not someone sees through it is irrelevant to whether they are lying or not. Saying people misled themselves sounds a little like people banning themselves.


                          In a way. Of course I phrased it a little provocatively but it wasn't a lie. I repeat, for the thrid time on this thread, show me a statement he made which completely conflicted with what happened when he left for Real Madrid.

                          Until someone can dig it up then I think you're relying on your memories of what you think happened and how you understood what he said.

                          Originally posted by Red_Polo View Post
                          But whether or not someone sees through it is irrelevant to whether they are lying or not. Saying people misled themselves sounds a little like people banning themselves.

                          Lying might not be black and white, some lies are obviously worse than others. But saying something not because you know it to be true but because you know it will mislead people in a way that suits your personal interests is quite obviously lying, to me. Not only were his statements lies, but they were lies which he knew went against the club's best interests. If this was about a politician misleading people in a similar way I suspect you might feel differently.
                          Actually I get a lot more irate about politicians who lie (e.g. the war against Iraq) than politicians who don't tell the whole truth. In politics you know the big sin is getting caught lying - it is the one thing they are not supposed to do.

                          The phrase "personal interests" is important - a politician is supposed to be a representative of the people, Michael Owen is really only beholden to himself. As fans we might wish that to be different but we're not professionals, we're enthusiasts. We're all relieved that Rafa is a professional. If sound, cold, calculated career management didn't come into his thinking he'd probably be off in the summer to - oh the irony - Real Madrid.

                          We don't seem to mind when Liverpool is the beneficiary. Funny that.
                          .
                          Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                          May the Lord bless this post.

                          Comment

                            #148
                            people he has gone let it go
                            The future you have, tomorrow, won't be the same future you had, yesterday.

                            Comment

                              #149
                              Originally posted by Monkeywool View Post
                              Wasn't an argument, more a musing, about who has had a good career after they left. McManaman won some trophies in the small time he played, but he was supposed to be in the prime of his career, instead he was playing second fiddle to Figo....
                              but who wouldn't be playing second fiddle to Figo considering the circumstances...Figo prized away from Barca, one of the best players in the world at the time, of course he was going to get a game ahead of Macca

                              Comment

                                #150
                                Originally posted by animal magic View Post
                                people he has gone let it go
                                He has?? Where to? <spies>
                                http://www.retroreds.co.uk/

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