Why are our footballers so technically inept?

[AFII]

basically - from what you all said - england should be playing a very aggressive, direct, physical game with loads of crosses and long balls, is that correct?
if you play that a approach with top notch players you should be a very hard oponent to beat imo. but england are neither fish nor fowl.

You are not allowed to do that in the international games.

[fred_plasticine]

You are not allowed to do that in the international games.

what?

[AFII]

what?

You are not allowed to play a very aggressive, direct, physical game in the international games. The refs don't allow it.

[Skullflower]

football is for the lads over here, people with long hair and any inclination for the artistry of the game are bullied out by the culture. i've seen this time and time again and i believe it's part of the problem.

[fred_plasticine]

You are not allowed to play a very aggressive, direct, physical game in the international games. The refs don't allow it.

a direct game is not against the rules now, is it?
you're probably right about the physical aspect though.

what i mean is that this is what you get when the players are not playing to their strength. instead they're trying to do the fancy stuff they're not capable of, like little joe cole with his attempted ludicrous stepovers or the constant attempts to play some one touch football.

you beat my country 1-0 on friday in a very dull game but there's similarities as people over here are complaining about the exact same things...

[AFII]

a direct game is not against the rules now, is it?
you're probably right about the physical aspect though.

what i mean is that this is what you get when the players are not playing to their strength. instead they're trying to do the fancy stuff they're not capable of, like little joe cole with his attempted ludicrous stepovers or the constant attempts to play some one touch football.

you beat my country 1-0 on friday in a very dull game but there's similarities as people over here are complaining about the exact same things...

[dww]

But how do they do it ‘abroad’?

It’s not just Spain, Italy and Argentina who are technically gifted – it’s virtually ****ing all of them! Croatia, Turkey, Israel ….whoever you care to mention – they’d all have been described as “tricky continentals” in days gone by.

They can’t all have identical coaching systems? Why are they all so much more comfortable in possession and technically capable? Granted, they don’t all have the pace, power and organisation that England (I include the other home nations in this actually) have in spades, and England often beat those sides, but they usually labour to victory and ‘we’ never pass anyone off the park.

I think it’s very, very weird and intriguing.

Gabriel Marcotti and Vialli wrote a book recently comparing the Italian and English footballing cultures and I heard a promotional radio interview. Basically they feel that the weather - in particular the wind has had a big effect. Their theory is that it makes it ahrder to practice repetetive skills drills which are the key to developing good technique.

I think this is compounded by a luddite attitude to coaching which is unwilling to accept change. Which shows up throughout the English game from the Dads who say 'well thats not how we did it in my day' in the park to many of the cuurent genreation of managers who seem to deem importing coaching techniques from abroad as an anathema and that deviating from a 4-4-2 system involving playing balls into the channels is heresy.

this combined with the poor state of a lot of community pitches which in my experience frequently get waterlogged and hence at junior level give an added advantage to the more athletic rather than the more skillful. This is exacerbated by the fact that we have a 'must win' culture rather than looking to the long term improvement of players.

[tomasjj]

football is for the lads over here, people with long hair and any inclination for the artistry of the game are bullied out by the culture. i've seen this time and time again and i believe it's part of the problem.

I also think that the culture and tradition in itself influences how the game should be played significantly.

There seems to be something like, put to an extreme: England - honest, tough tackling macho stuff. Spain - Skill and artistry and diving.

Touch tackling and aggressiveness appears to be more lauded more than skill in England, and it is considered a human right to **** anyone who is skillful and dribbles a lot.

A combination of it would be nice...

[tomasjj]

Gabriel Marcotti and Vialli wrote a book recently comparing the Italian and English footballing cultures and I heard a promotional radio interview. Basically they feel that the weather - in particular the wind has had a big effect. Their theory is that it makes it ahrder to practice repetetive skills drills which are the key to developing good technique.

I think this is compounded by a luddite attitude to coaching which is unwilling to accept change. Which shows up throughout the English game from the Dads who say 'well thats not how we did it in my day' in the park to many of the cuurent genreation of managers who seem to deem importing coaching techniques from abroad as an anathema and that deviating from a 4-4-2 system involving playing balls into the channels is heresy.

this combined with the poor state of a lot of community pitches which in my experience frequently get waterlogged and hence at junior level give an added advantage to the more athletic rather than the more skillful. This is exacerbated by the fact that we have a 'must win' culture rather than looking to the long term improvement of players.

Many good points in that post mate.
Very good.

[Jazzmaster]

I'm sorry but this is all a bunch of arse. To play to one's strengths is essential in football. Whether they are technically good or not is besides the point. The great Irish team of the late 80's early 90's under charlton had little or no technical prowess but what they had was strength and above all, organisation.. Every player knew their job and knew what they had to do. Get rid of ball from back up to big lad up front and feed off the knock downs. Simple, yet effective. It worked.

From an organisational point of view, yesterday England were a total embarrassment. Nobody except crouch really knew where they were playing or what they had to do. Balls were going up to crouch who knocked them down but nobody was there to feed off them. This showed that McClaren went out to play for a point and got exactly what he deserved for being so naive. The FA appoint an unremarkable manager with a poor record at club level and then everyone is surprised when things go tits up. Get a grip people, england have some excellent players and should be qualifying for every tournament with ease.

People are banging on about technical this and keep the ball that, but again thats bollocks. England made croatia look good by allowing them such space to move the ball around. There was little harrying, little pressing of the croatian players in possession. I mean where the **** was lampard last night? Did he even touch the ball apart from the penalty. Why leave him on the pitch and take Barry off - nonsensical. Gerrard was als poor. Without a tight grip on his reins by the manager, SG starts to try the hollywood passes which for the most part fail. Last night explained perfectly why benitez subbed him in the derby match. He doesnt know when to keep things simple.

England, you have the players, but your management of them is appalling.

[Frank Leroux]

I think it's cultural.

Continental European football has - certainly post war - has had an emphasis of possession of the ball as being a fundamental to the game.

If you look at the English (including the national one) teams fro the fifties the game is strength and organisation. This is understandable considering football is/was a 'working class' sport where 'hard men' were lauded. And if nothing else, the British pride themselves on organisational ability.

Strength and organisation used to cut it as the Continentals didn't particularly have it. They just had ball skills.

I suppose Germany might have been the perfect blend of the English and Continental styles - and perhaps it's no surprise they won so many titles over the past 50 years.

Problem for England now is that the fans still want 'the most exciting league in the World' - the basic pretext of which is that if you lose the ball you will get it back soon enough.

Not good for the international game.

[fred_plasticine]

I think it's cultural.

Continental European football has - certainly post war - has had an emphasis of possession of the ball as being a fundamental to the game.

If you look at the English (including the national one) teams fro the fifties the game is strength and organisation. This is understandable considering football is/was a 'working class' sport where 'hard men' were lauded. And if nothing else, the British pride themselves on organisational ability.

Strength and organisation used to cut it as the Continentals didn't particularly have it. They just had ball skills.

I suppose Germany might have been the perfect blend of the English and Continental styles - and perhaps it's no surprise they won so many titles over the past 50 years.

Problem for England now is that the fans still want 'the most exciting league in the World' - the basic pretext of which is that if you lose the ball you will get it back soon enough.

Not good for the international game.

maybe a german coach would be the solution then

[tomasjj]

I'm sorry but this is all a bunch of arse. To play to one's strengths is essential in football. Whether they are technically good or not is besides the point. The great Irish team of the late 80's early 90's under charlton had little or no technical prowess but what they had was strength and above all, organisation.. Every player knew their job and knew what they had to do. Get rid of ball from back up to big lad up front and feed off the knock downs. Simple, yet effective. It worked.

Yes, play to your strengths, sure. However, the advantage that Northern European teams had some years ago, in terms of Organisation, is not there anymore. The other countries have caught up with that. New ideas are needed.

From an organisational point of view, yesterday England were a total embarrassment. Nobody except crouch really knew where they were playing or what they had to do. Balls were going up to crouch who knocked them down but nobody was there to feed off them. This showed that McClaren went out to play for a point and got exactly what he deserved for being so naive. The FA appoint an unremarkable manager with a poor record at club level and then everyone is surprised when things go tits up. Get a grip people, england have some excellent players and should be qualifying for every tournament with ease.


There are some exceptional players, like Rooney, SG and Terry. But I think this is where part of the problem lies. The English players are not as good as the English think, and your last sentence says it all really. It is to me a delusion.

People are banging on about technical this and keep the ball that, but again thats bollocks. England made croatia look good by allowing them such space to move the ball around. There was little harrying, little pressing of the croatian players in possession. I mean where the **** was lampard last night? Did he even touch the ball apart from the penalty. Why leave him on the pitch and take Barry off - nonsensical. Gerrard was als poor. Without a tight grip on his reins by the manager, SG starts to try the hollywood passes which for the most part fail. Last night explained perfectly why benitez subbed him in the derby match. He doesnt know when to keep things simple.

Sadly, I have to agree on SG.

England, you have the players, but your management of them is appalling.

The management is appalling, and there are players good enough to be amongst the top 5 countries in Europe, but not the top 3.

[RedProf]

Sometimes I do worry that fantastic player as he is, SG lacks, as Rafa would put it, game intelligence. I don't know why he was pinging so many of those 50 yard balls when it was evident to everyone it was not working, and instead he needed to switch to a more possession based shorter passing game.

[Frank Leroux]

maybe a german coach would be the solution then

...should have lost the war, I guess....