Everton

[desertscouser]

I would laugh if this was not even close to the truth.
Sadly it is.

If you look at the table we're actually closer to Villa, Everton, Portsmouth, City, Blackburn and West Ham than we are to Arsenal. Obviously if we win our games in hand then the table will look better but as it stands it looks a little worrying.

[dww]

We are not even close to be on the same economical planet as them.

But to be fair they haven't spend that much in recent years and have developed an excellent side. I think people put too much weight on the need to always splash big cash IMO.

[AFII]

But to be fair they haven't spend that much in recent years and have developed an excellent side. I think people put too much weight on the need to always splash big cash IMO.

It's more down to if the manager has the possibility to sign for example a £25m+ player.

That means that we can be outbid for the best players. Now we need to hope that a high quality player rules out other clubs if we want him, like Torres.

Clubs like Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea can simply go out and sign a player and don't need to worry if other clubs want him.

[dww]

It's more down to if the manager has the possibility to sign for example a £25m+ player.

That means that we can be outbid for the best players. Now we need to hope that a high quality player rules out other clubs if we want him, like Torres.

Clubs like Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea can simply go out and sign a player and don't need to worry if other clubs want him.

Which player(s) have Arsenal outbid anyone for of late? Even if they did I can't think of a single player in the last 3 seasons who cost more than £10m - so we could have outbid them if we had wanted to and the player had wanted to come.

[Kenneth]

Arsenal have a better manager, as do the Scum, not really an issue of funds imo. Chelsea have better players. That's why we're below them. Pretty simple really.

Everton have spent a fraction of what we have a achieved 8 points less than us in 2007. Now that sounds bad, like we've wasted **** loads of money, but it actually means that it's very difficult to move from a top 6 side to challengers. Very difficult indeed, and I can't see us getting there and pulling far away from the likes of the BS anytime soon tbh.

[Neil Young]

Arsenal have a better manager, as do the Scum, not really an issue of funds imo. Chelsea have better players. That's why we're below them. Pretty simple really.

Simplistic IMO.

I think you have to take into account the fact that Arsenal and Man United have managers who have been around far longer. If you compare their early records with Rafa's you might argue that Wenger was more effective but Alex Ferguson won f*ck all for 6 years. Ferguson's job wasn't dissimilar to Rafa's when he joined (win major trophies after many years of underachievement) while Wenger arguably inherited the second-best team in the country).

A more accurate portrayal might be that LFC under Rafa (and Rafa himself) is at a different stage of development to Arsenal and Man United.

In other words, a summary like yours fails to take into account that any new manager coming in would be unlikely to improve things significantly since a short-termist approach is unlikely to bridge the gap between us and the top 3.

Unless of course you feel Rafa will never achieve his (and our) goals at LFC in which case I'd like to see the arguments for that point of view.

[Kenneth]

Simplistic IMO.

I think you have to take into account the fact that Arsenal and Man United have managers who have been around far longer. If you compare their early records with Rafa's you might argue that Wenger was more effective but Alex Ferguson won f*ck all for 6 years. Ferguson's job wasn't dissimilar to Rafa's when he joined (win major trophies after many years of underachievement) while Wenger arguably inherited the second-best team in the country).

A more accurate portrayal might be that LFC under Rafa (and Rafa himself) is at a different stage of development to Arsenal and Man United.

In other words, a summary like yours fails to take into account that any new manager coming in would be unlikely to improve things significantly since a short-termist approach is unlikely to bridge the gap between us and the top 3.

Unless of course you feel Rafa will never achieve his (and our) goals at LFC in which case I'd like to see the arguments for that point of view.

You points are fair, but I don't think any manager in the league will get the time SAF had anymore. I don't think Rafa will longer term goals with LFC because I don't think he'll be given the chance to. I can't see any manager at a top club getting more than 5 years without seriously challenging for the title.

[Neil Young]

You points are fair, but I don't think any manager in the league will get the time SAF had anymore. I don't think Rafa will longer term goals with LFC because I don't think he'll be given the chance to. I can't see any manager at a top club getting more than 5 years without seriously challenging for the title.

I think you may be correct but that doesn't mean sacking Rafa after four or five years is the right move. It seems to me that that's a recipe for ensuring we never challenge for the title because we (a) don't have the money to compete with Chelsea and (b) we won't give even the most talented manager enough time to compete with Arsenal and Man United.

Of course, it's possible that Rafa has improved us (for instance we did win a major trophy in 2005) to the point where a new manager has a better base from which to build but in that case why not allow Rafa more than five years (as long as we are seeing progress)?

[Kenneth]

I think you may be correct but that doesn't mean sacking Rafa after four or five years is the right move. It seems to me that that's a recipe for ensuring we never challenge for the title because we (a) don't have the money to compete with Chelsea and (b) we won't give even the most talented manager enough time to compete with Arsenal and Man United.

Of course, it's possible that Rafa has improved us (for instance we did win a major trophy in 2005) to the point where a new manager has a better base from which to build but in that case why not allow Rafa more than five years (as long as we are seeing progress)?

I agree, swapping managers and hoping for an instant uplift is a very dodgy policy, but one that seems popular these days, in sport as well as business. The few examples of it working probably hide the fact that the chances are low.

[Neil Young]

I agree, swapping managers and hoping for an instant uplift is a very dodgy policy, but one that seems popular these days, in sport as well as business. The few examples of it working probably hide the fact that the chances are low.

[AFII]

Which player(s) have Arsenal outbid anyone for of late? Even if they did I can't think of a single player in the last 3 seasons who cost more than £10m - so we could have outbid them if we had wanted to and the player had wanted to come.

Walcott and Denilson are two players that Rafa said that he wanted but that he couldn't compete in the transfer market for them.

I know that Denilson didn't cost more than £10m but I think that you get my point.

Wenger can buy expensive young players and expensive first team players and can afford not to get it right.

Rafa more or less must get it right every time he sign a first team player and he can't compete if a player like Walcott or Aguero is available.

I'm talking about Aguero before he moved to Atletico and I use him as an example of an excellent young player that costs a lot of money that is signed for the future and that you don't expect to deliver the first one or two years.

[AFII]

Everton submit new stadium plans

Plans for Everton Football Club's new £400m stadium in Kirkby have officially been submitted to the local authority.

The application for the 50,000-seat ground, a joint venture with supermarket giant Tesco, has been received by Knowsley Council.

The plans have been opposed by some Kirkby residents as well as people who believe Everton Football Club should remain in Liverpool.

The proposal also features the construction of 50 retail outlets.

The stadium and superstore plan is also being pitched as an opportunity to regenerate the existing town centre which will see the development of leisure facilities such as hotels, bars and restaurants and investment in the existing Kirkby Market.

'Once-in-a-lifetime'

Keith Wyness, chief executive of Everton Football Club said: "This represents the next, key stage in what has been a complex and demanding process.

"We remain very optimistic about what is hugely-ambitious and significant project."

The application also details infrastructure and public improvements to Kirkby with around £10m earmarked for road improvements and further funding for boundary treatments designed to lessen the impact of the stadium on nearby neighbourhoods.

But Kirkby Residents Action Group oppose the plans claiming it would create a huge volume of match day traffic, impact on the environment and create a loss of green space

Tony Fletcher, Tesco public affairs manager, said: "We have been working on the Destination Kirkby planning application for the past ten months and we believe that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create a development of truly international significance in the heart of Kirkby.

"We have consulted widely on our suggestions and have received valuable feedback not least from the people of Kirkby who have attended exhibitions and meetings with us."

If the application is successful developers hope to begin work later in the year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7168024.stm

[dww]

Walcott and Denilson are two players that Rafa said that he wanted but that he couldn't compete in the transfer market for them.

I know that Denilson didn't cost more than £10m but I think that you get my point.

Wenger can buy expensive young players and expensive first team players and can afford not to get it right.

Rafa more or less must get it right every time he sign a first team player and he can't compete if a player like Walcott or Aguero is available.

I'm talking about Aguero before he moved to Atletico and I use him as an example of an excellent young player that costs a lot of money that is signed for the future and that you don't expect to deliver the first one or two years.

But Wenger doesn't compete for the likes of Aguero either. He never spends that much even on a player to go straight into the first team.

I would argue that this summer with signings like Babel and Lucas we moved to the level where we do compete for the equivalent players of Walcott and Denilson. So I think your argument seems a little out dated.

[PLY]

We are not even close to be on the same economical planet as them.

Luckily I support a football team and not a bank