Dud signings

[Nic83]

Which managers have the best eye for a player? Just thinking about Gerard Houllier and Rafa Benitez and the amount of cack they have brought into the club (in fairness, Rafa for the most part usually realises his mistakes and gets rid) and then thinking of Wenger and struggling to think of even one signing he made that flopped greatly. There was Jeffers but he had a lot of injury hassle. Then I think of Ramos and some of the signings he pulled off for Sevilla were fantastic such as Seydou Keita who he plucked from under the radar, and he's continued at Spurs making some great defensive signings IMO, in Woodgate and Hutton.

Just how do our transfers over the years shape up against the rest? I think more attention should be paid to this area and the scouting at our club etc because it really has been shocking and no one really thinks of this when we are looking for reasons. Yes, we may think that we have a lack of big money signings but it's actually more so the tripe being brought in that's the major problem in the market. We need to bring in someone into the scouting department that has a real eye for a player like Wenger does.

Which managers are best in this area?

[tsb]

Rafa wanted Evra and Vidic. Houllier wanted Ronaldo. Both managers had eyes for these players yet the funds were unavailable.

[Nic83]

Rafa wanted Evra and Vidic. Houllier wanted Ronaldo. Both managers had eyes for these players yet the funds were unavailable.

yeah but how often do the likes of Ferguson and Wenger shop in a market that contains a voronin or a Nunez when there are others far far better within budget.

Point being that those players that you mentioned were all players that a lot of top clubs were after so of course our managers would have known about them but when we bring in players like Voronin, you have to wonder just how well the manager/scouts actually know their football.

[PTP]

it makes me laugh this debate

People (fans/media) forget about

Ferguson
Kleberson
Djemba Djemba


Wenger
Franny Jeffers
Richard Wright
Pascal Cygan

feel free to add to my list @D

[Rich]

All managers have bought their fair share of ****e, so rounding on Houllier and Rafa isn't right.

Ferguson has bought ****, Wenger has, Mourinho has.

[BFG]

I'm not sure that I agree with your assesment that Wenger has so much of a better eye for a transfer than Rafa. It's much easier to pick one or two players out to add to an already talented squad than it is to rebuild from top to bottom. Wenger's **** buys:

August 00 Sylvain Wiltord Bourdeaux £12m
June 01 Francis Jeffers Everton £8m
June 01 Giovanni Van Bronkhorst Glasgow Rangers £8.2
01 Richard Wright Ipswitch £6m
July 02 Pascal Cygan Lille Undisclosed
January 04 Jose Antonio Reyes Sevilla £10.5 million

Although he's done great when selling players that list above represents bigger blunders than Rafa has made when given big sums of money to spend. In fact all the £10mil plus players Rafa's bought (Alonso, Mascherano, Torres) have been absolute quality.

When you spend £3- £6 mil on players you're going to get mixed results whoever you are.

[Nic83]

it makes me laugh this debate

People (fans/media) forget about

Ferguson
Kleberson
Djemba Djemba


Wenger
Franny Jeffers
Richard Wright
Pascal Cygan

feel free to add to my list @D

Obviously all managers make mistakes but the amount of them we make in the market prepared to the other 3 is, well, a disgrace.

If we made up a list for all the big 4 of signings that can be classed as duds, ours would be 3 times the length, or more, than the nearest to us.

[BFG]

yeah but how often do the likes of Ferguson and Wenger shop in a market that contains a voronin or a Nunez when there are others far far better within budget.

Point being that those players that you mentioned were all players that a lot of top clubs were after so of course our managers would have known about them but when we bring in players like Voronin, you have to wonder just how well the manager/scouts actually know their football.

What budget is that? Buy one get one free?

[Nic83]

I'm not sure that I agree with your assesment that Wenger has so much of a better eye for a transfer than Rafa. It's much easier to pick one or two players out to add to an already talented squad than it is to rebuild from top to bottom. Wenger's **** buys:

August 00 Sylvain Wiltord Bourdeaux £12m
June 01 Francis Jeffers Everton £8m
June 01 Giovanni Van Bronkhorst Glasgow Rangers £8.2
01 Richard Wright Ipswitch £6m
July 02 Pascal Cygan Lille Undisclosed
January 04 Jose Antonio Reyes Sevilla £10.5 million

Although he's done great when selling players that list above represents bigger blunders than Rafa has made when given big sums of money to spend. In fact all the £10mil plus players Rafa's bought (Alonso, Mascherano, Torres) have been absolute quality.

When you spend £3- £6 mil on players you're going to get mixed results whoever you are.

--------------------Wright---------------

-----------Bronkhorst-------Cygan------

------------Reyes--------Wiltord

-----------------Jeffers---------


---------------Erik Meijer

-----------Nunez-----------Diomede

------------Pellegrino------Josemi

-----------------Arpexhead



Who's win on the astro?

[Rich]

Obviously all managers make mistakes but the amount of them we make in the market prepared to the other 3 is, well, a disgrace.

If we made up a list for all the big 4 of signings that can be classed as duds, ours would be 3 times the length, or more, than the nearest to us.

Why when I read your posts does it sound like you have an agenda against the manager.

No manager is perfect and Rafa has made some dodgy purchases but he's also made some great ones. Much like other top managers.

[Nic83]

What budget is that? Buy one get one free?

Obviously free transfers are within our budget. Try again.

[PTP]

Obviously all managers make mistakes but the amount of them we make in the market prepared to the other 3 is, well, a disgrace.

If we made up a list for all the big 4 of signings that can be classed as duds, ours would be 3 times the length, or more, than the nearest to us.

yeah fair point - but that would be easier for us as liverpool fans as we know who we signed and what they did/don't achieve - i'm sure if you asked an arsenal fan they would prob have loads of players they think have flopped.

Also, as someone above pointed out - we have been shopping in a different market to chelsea and utd and more or less rebuilding a whole squad as opposed to just adding one or two quality signings.

Now if we compared our crap signings to say Newcastle, SPurs, Villa etc over the last 5 years or so who has made the worst signing then?

[Nic83]

Why when I read your posts does it sound like you have an agenda against the manager.

No manager is perfect and Rafa has made some dodgy purchases but he's also made some great ones. Much like other top managers.

Well it wasn't meant to sound that way. I have more against the scouting department as this is predominantly their area. Rafa has more important things to concentrate on. And I'm also referring more really to Houllier as I mentioned Rafa usually realises his mistakes and ships em out.

This thread was actually meant to be more about discussing other managers who are great in the transfer market rather than having a go at LFC! It's great the way my posts can be misconstrued

[PTP]

Well it wasn't meant to sound that way. I have more against the scouting department as this is predominantly their area. Rafa has more important things to concentrate on. And I'm also referring more really to Houllier as I mentioned Rafa usually realises his mistakes and ships em out.

This thread was actually meant to be more about discussing other managers who are great in the transfer market rather than having a go at LFC! It's great the way my posts can be misconstrued

- BURN HIM BURN HIM

[BFG]

--------------------Wright---------------

-----------Bronkhorst-------Cygan------

------------Reyes--------Wiltord

-----------------Jeffers---------


---------------Erik Meijer

-----------Nunez-----------Diomede

------------Pellegrino------Josemi

-----------------Arpexhead



Who's win on the astro?

You can't compare Wenger favourably with Rafa then use Houllier's signings to back up your argument.

So Wenger's flops on that list cost £44.7mil plus whatever Cygan cost and Rafa's cost the £2mil we spent on Josemi.