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**Reece** · 10-06-08, 02:15 PM

How many Italian players were there in the Inter team when we played them?

**cumbriankop** · 10-06-08, 02:27 PM

1... until materazzi got sent off

**Tee** · 10-06-08, 02:41 PM

The biggest problem is that the Government and FA just sit there and fail to respond to these attacks.

They should tell those leeches at UEFA and FIFA that they are guilty of the most amazing double standards and prove this point with many many examples of pure hypocrisy.

I say it is time we shamed UEFA and FIFA and stopped being such a bloody easy target. We are the power nation of football in Europe and it is time we threw our weight around.

**ScouseUK** · 10-06-08, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by looprevil View Post

The biggest problem is that the Government and FA just sit there and fail to respond to these attacks.

They should tell those leeches at UEFA and FIFA that they are guilty of the most amazing double standards and prove this point with many many examples of pure hypocrisy.

I say it is time we shamed UEFA and FIFA and stopped being such a bloody easy target. We are the power nation of football in Europe and it is time we threw our weight around.

so dammmm true

but with the world cup bid underway not 1 person within the goverment and the FA have a set of bollocks between them to stand up and stop this crap right now

**dww** · 10-06-08, 02:52 PM

To be fair to the FA and government they have an interest in producing English/UK talent and the current system is clearly not helping that. Added to the ill feeling to the likes of our owners and there is no mileage for them coming out and attacking such proposals.

The PL has, with daft plans like the 39th game, done nothing to help it's credibility as an organisation who are looking out for fans or anyone else's interests. Their opinion would have no weight internationally.

I do think the FA/PL etc. should look at how they can combine the success of the current setup in making the best teams in Europe with a better development plan. There are a lot of levels at which such things could work - the pyramid below the PL could be strengthened or incentives used for the bringing through of young players or England internationals.

The criticisms of the PL are in large part valid if you believe that international football is or should be a key part of the overall footballing scene and that clubs should have some level of local identity. In the end the current set up is leading to an increasingly finance driven world and less interesting leagues over time (look at the lack of changes in the top four in the PL recently).

I find though that the solutions proposed by the likes of FIFA/UEFA are usually panic driven and seemingly bitter towards the success of the English club game. To counter act it though we have to start thinking in terms of making long term sporting cases that would allow us to continue to see club football thrive here but also address the wider issues that concern clubs and countries throughout Europe and the world.

**ScouseUK** · 10-06-08, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by dww View Post

The criticisms of the PL are in large part valid if you believe that international football is or should be a key part of the overall footballing scene and that clubs should have some level of local identity. In the end the current set up is leading to an increasingly finance driven world and less interesting leagues over time (look at the lack of changes in the top four in the PL recently).

i did thing england national team was a must up until the employed that numpty maclaren when the fa did that i new there and then they didnt give a **** about the team....

there is a problem within england and its nothing to do with forigners its to do with the price of english talent and top players....if a english player shows a bit of promise you can add 5/10 mill onto his value over night so any manager is nt gonna pay that price and go and buy someone equally if not better from abroad,teams will pay millions for youth players from england only to leave them in the reserves for years or farm them out on loan...

i do tend to lean towards the 6 plus what ever rule but its the way they are attackin us that dose my head in and makes it look like a us vs them

**PTP** · 10-06-08, 03:29 PM

i may have got my wires crossed, but i was thinking bout this situation the other day,

surely only recently uefa or fifa were talking about the 6 + 5 rule and then using the fact that unit used 6 players to win the champions league as a reason why their new idea was feasible.

then they turn round wit a new agenda and say, foreign owners(isn't there a quote somewhere like "why are these americans investing in the Premier League) are ruining the game in england and foreign players are preventing young english talent developing and as a consequence england didn't qualify for euro 2008!

it totally contradicts, you can't use the fact that united won the CL with 6 english players (despite having foreign owners) as an arguement to benefit one agenda, and then totally contradict by saying foreign owners (like united) are preventing the national team doing well

We have discussed this a lot recently, it basically comes down to this - the Premier League is the strongest league by some distance, in terms of Money, Merchandising, Fan base, Quality. - The big four are getting bigger, they will potentially dominate europe for the next 5 to 10 years and europe are pissed about it, they have ****ing **** themselves. English clubs, led by liverpool looked set to dominate the eighties, unti they were all banned, once the ban was lifted it has taken a while but now England have not only caught up but are totally blitzing the rest of europe and they are ****ed off about it.

the only way it can be stopped is by changing/adding rules to prevent the groth and even the playing field for the rest. As i said in another thread - there is prob only Barca, Real, AC Milan in the rest of europe who can compete with US, the MAncs, Arse, Chelsea.

i have no idea what i have typed or if it makes sense

- i staretd about ten minutes ago and keep being distracted by work

**dww** · 10-06-08, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by ScouseUK View Post

i did thing england national team was a must up until the employed that numpty maclaren when the fa did that i new there and then they didnt give a **** about the team....

there is a problem within england and its nothing to do with forigners its to do with the price of english talent and top players....if a english player shows a bit of promise you can add 5/10 mill onto his value over night so any manager is nt gonna pay that price and go and buy someone equally if not better from abroad,teams will pay millions for youth players from england only to leave them in the reserves for years or farm them out on loan...

i do tend to lean towards the 6 plus what ever rule but its the way they are attackin us that dose my head in and makes it look like a us vs them

Surely the reason that the price of talented young players can go so high is that there are so few of them though. It's not about the number of foreigners per se but about the lack of focus on youth development.

This is apparent both at national and club level. The lower leagues are all geared towards selfish clubs (which I don't mean as an insult in this context) fighting to survive or win leagues - rather than developing players unlike having B teams as in Spain say.

Then at the level of coaches people like Glenn Roeder whose talent is obviously at coaching young players is encouraged to become a manager and that not doing so would make him a failure.

Both of these factors have fed int the fact that the underage England teams have not had the same cohesion as say Argentina where they look to actively deveop players in a certain way of playing to eventually play in the full side. This is part of the problem that at the minute the clubs have so much power/money and this can at times harm individual player development.

I'm not saying I have a solution but I think that this and the even wider context of a society in which we more often watch than participate in sport even from a very young age is the root of the problem. The 6+5 plan (especially on the assigned time fram) is a crude and ill thought through way of addressing this and in my opinion would lead to a worsening of certain leagues (such as the PL) without necessarily (at least for a long while) a commensurate improvement in representative football.

**fah-q** · 10-06-08, 04:34 PM

I agree with him about the debt issue (although Real's fiddlings should be looked at carefully too) but not on this issue.

**fah-q** · 10-06-08, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by ScouseUK View Post

now along with seb fatter wanting to limit us and now plattini throwing his 2pence in its starting to feel like its us vs them.i notice they dont have a problem with the king of spain owning real madrid and useing credit funds to buy whoever they want,its starting to get petty,fifa and uefa all agreed to remove the 3 forigner rule many years ago but cause the english prem is better than the other leagues they feel the need to stop us.what is soo wrong with the english prem being the best league in the world,why didnt they stop the spanish and italian teams when they both dominated european football,why are uefa exsploring every avenue to allow ac millan into the champions league when they tried everythink in there power to stop liverpool when we won it and finished 5th.....

I think this is a little bit paranoid though as when Italian teams were dominating europe the large part of their teams were made up of homegrown players.

Also it was the gutless FA who were a large part of not letting us in to the CL as winners in 2005.

**Woobus** · 10-06-08, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by dww View Post

Surely the reason that the price of talented young players can go so high is that there are so few of them though. It's not about the number of foreigners per se but about the lack of focus on youth development.

Completely agree but then even Clubs in the lower leagues refuse to play the kids we send on loan. The amount of pressure on managers must add to this knowing they would probably get better results using experienced players.
I think Rafa had it spot on about the reserve league needing to be made more competitive, but then that is even getting full of foreign players.
I think the biggest problem in England is more social and the way kids are brought up now a days. They really do need more venues to play and keep fit instead of sitting in all day playing on there x-box. England also has one of the worse diets for children which probably stops some great players from ever playing.

**dww** · 10-06-08, 05:33 PM

I would agree that the culture external to football in the country is a major obstacle. It is one though that football to a large degree will have to live with.

However I do think that a greater provision of local indoor (or at least all weather) footballing facilities would make a big difference. It is beyond the scope of the football community but you would think that in an era of increasing fear of allowing children out organised sporting activities could play a valuable role in society and that there would be political will to back initiatives in the area if football was willing to invest money in the area.

Perhaps financial incentives should be given to individual clubs for developing young players for representative squads. I think there is more to be lost in character of the lower leagues than is likely to be gained by allowing reserve teams into the league. Possibly however link ups between teams should be allowed where they aren't now.

I think a big opportunity was missed when the added bench places were approved but no restrictions were made. I would have enforced age and possibly CL style homegrown status on them myself. Not only does the way it has been implemented not guarentee more young players on the bench in my opinion it also favours the wealthier clubs even more as they can afford to have 7 quality reserves whereas the 6/7th players for some teams are liable to be bonus defenders capable of kicking the **** out of the opposition for the last 20 if their team is a goal up.

**El Jefecito** · 10-06-08, 10:45 PM

Rafa has said one of the reasons that we have difficulty develeoping young players is that the gap between reserves and the EPL is too great. Hence, the idea of having B teams in the lower leagues. Refusal to allow that and not having a national academy contributes to the failure to develop our youth to their full potential.

The whole intake region thing also doesn't help. The best young kids need to be at the best clubs to ensure they are developed by the best coaching staff.

And that's just off the top of my head. Three things that the FA are doing to shoot themselves in the foot. They need to decide what the priorities are e.g. the national team and modify the system to suit that.

BTW One more thing, Brooking has been in charge of this for about 10 years now and has achieved a big fat nothing. Sack his arse and get in someone who can achieve something. Given the Brooking situation it would seem that cronyism is more important than the national team!

I think 6+5 can work, but english teams are at least to revolutions away from being able to make it work in their favour.

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