Donadoni Sacked

[Konstro]

at least we win things, etc

you mean organise things ?

In 1934 there could only be one winner so I wouldn`t mention that. Kicking the **** out of Zamorra and other stuff. Milan 1965 springs to mind


Don`t get me wrong I wouldn`t mind if Poland would win something in our history, no matter how. It`s just that you shouldn`t be suprised that many people aren`t big fans of the style that it was done with.

[fah-q]

I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

And if you believe that we are the only nation who has corruption at its football heart then you would be naive in the extreme. At least we have the balls to do something about it. Could you ever see Manchester United being relegated in this country?

[Konstro]

I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

And if you believe that we are the only nation who has corruption at its football heart then you would be naive in the extreme. At least we have the balls to do something about it. Could you ever see Manchester United being relegated in this country?

Speaking of corruption we are quite good at this just not that effective.

I know where you coming from. Not many people remember 1982 and youse beating Brasil 3:2 ( wasn`t it? ) That was classic. Same as no one will even contemplate talking about Brasil as a defensive team and that was how they won title in 1994.

Oh well , I guess I can`t stick to my guns

[fah-q]

Also not sure if you know this but a useful historical note for those interested, there is a tragic reason why Italian football adopted the defensive "catenacchio" style of play. The Turin air disaster of 1949 killed almost the entire Torino side of which 10 players made up the national side. Football in Italy was devastated and combined with dealing with the after effects of war meant a defensive style was improvised to avoid heavy defeats whilst the team was rebuilt.

Unfortunately for spectators this style proved very effective and therefore wasn't cast away as the game got stronger. However in recent years we have thrown off this caution to play expansive football of a sort which is why I was frustrated that Lippi stood down.

[Shaggy]

I think its more that people form opinions based on little evidence and then harp on about them for eternity.

Take for instance the away performance at Juve from Liverpool as Reece earlier pointed out. That was a negative, spoiling tactic to grind out a nil - nil draw, does this make Liverpool a boring, negative team?

No the tactic worked, so all was well but its then hypocritical to judge a nation's football based on one recent game where tactics were chosen to stop one of the most potent attacking forces from ripping a makeshift defence apart.

I’m not trying to be antagonistic or owt – although I think you know I’m not a fan of Italian football.

I don’t think your comparison between Italy’s depressing tactics and our 0-0 in Juve stands up at all. We were a poor-ish, under-developed side against much superior opposition. Italy are WORLD CHAMPIONS FFS! Yet they played like a Conference team would away at Chelsea.

I realise they were slightly depleted but to me it doesn’t wash – Italy are a major, major footballing nation and if you’re trying to tell me you don’t have enough half-decent players to actually come out and have a game of football against Spain, rather than just spoil spoil spoil……..then well, I don’t believe it. I would’ve empathised with a slightly defensive set-up designed to keep it goalless until half-time and then have a go – like Turkey have been doing – but to just shut up shop completely, make no attempt to win the game and cling on for a penalty shoot-out absolutely stunk IMO.

[Neil Young]

I don't think it matters what anyone expects of a team depending on their perceived status. Anyone can make an argument for why their point of view is internally consistent. Defensive tactics are defensive tactics, no matter who plays them.

[dww]

Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.

[fah-q]

Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.

I agree, although we are world champions, we are going through a period of transistion at the moment. I also the squad that Donadoni picked wasn't sufficiently balanced enough that it could be a threat without the creative influence of Pirlo (and the protection to the back four Gattuso).

[fah-q]

I’m not trying to be antagonistic or owt – although I think you know I’m not a fan of Italian football.

I don’t think your comparison between Italy’s depressing tactics and our 0-0 in Juve stands up at all. We were a poor-ish, under-developed side against much superior opposition. Italy are WORLD CHAMPIONS FFS! Yet they played like a Conference team would away at Chelsea.

I realise they were slightly depleted but to me it doesn’t wash – Italy are a major, major footballing nation and if you’re trying to tell me you don’t have enough half-decent players to actually come out and have a game of football against Spain, rather than just spoil spoil spoil……..then well, I don’t believe it. I would’ve empathised with a slightly defensive set-up designed to keep it goalless until half-time and then have a go – like Turkey have been doing – but to just shut up shop completely, make no attempt to win the game and cling on for a penalty shoot-out absolutely stunk IMO.

I think you are being clouded by your dislike of Italian football, yes it wasn't pretty but since when did it become a responsiblity to entertain other people of other nations? Never, football is about winning and sometimes you have to try to win ugly if you are mismatched.

[Shaggy]

I think you are being clouded by your dislike of Italian football, yes it wasn't pretty but since when did it become a responsiblity to entertain other people of other nations? Never, football is about winning and sometimes you have to try to win ugly if you are mismatched.

Maybe I am.

Although maybe I'm being clouded even more by the fact I could win four hundred quid if Spain win it and I was raging on the night.

I agree with your point to an extent but I thought Italy took it to extreme lengths, and would've had more of a chance had they shown at least some adventure.

[Rich]

Fair point.

Does anyone else listen to the Guardian football podcast? James Richardson simply said that the Italian team weren't technically good enough to do much more (I think he qualified that criticism a bit but is was the basic jist of his comments). I was surprised that players like Aquilani and De Rossi didn't inject a bit more directness and that no one supported Toni more. The Roma player and to an extent Cameranesi always look technically sound and more direct and aggressive in club football.

To be honest I also thought Spain looked lacking in a plan B and didn't have the invention you would imagine players like Xavi and Iniesta would have provided. In the circumstances I might have switched tactics and bought on Alonso actually.

Barry Glendenning didn't like the Italians either!

[fah-q]

Maybe I am.

Although maybe I'm being clouded even more by the fact I could win four hundred quid if Spain win it and I was raging on the night.

I agree with your point to an extent but I thought Italy took it to extreme lengths, and would've had more of a chance had they shown at least some adventure.

[Neil Young]

If Italy had to use Cassano as a starter then it's clear they were short on quality. Also I've never seen Camoranesi play as well as he did when he came on against Spain which might just show how poor the others were on the night.

I know Cannavaro withdrew just before the tournament started but what's with Totti and Nesta?

[dww]

I think they have both retired from international football.

[Neil Young]

Really? Wow, I had no idea.

Anyway, last I read "Donadini" hadn't actually been sacked yet. I imagine it's only a question of time though.