Russia and Turkey's performance!

[Joe King]

so to some up the reason England are ****e is because

1) They are under immense pressure from fans/media
2) There is no system in place
3) as a result noone knows the best starting XI
4) There is not enough naturally creative/technical players
5) There hasn't been a strong enough manager to deal with the egos
6) the players are arrogant
7) the players are thick

1) That shouldn't matter. All of the big countries have pressure, in fact, if these players were that good, they should use that pressure as an advantage
2) System, in terms of youth? If so, yes.
3) Give Capello time.
4) True, England don't have enough players with guile, finesse of Sneijder, Arshavin
5) True
6) Correct
7) No doubt

[PTP]

1) That shouldn't matter. All of the big countries have pressure, in fact, if these players were that good, they should use that pressure as an advantage
2) System, in terms of youth? If so, yes.
3) Give Capello time.
4) True, England don't have enough players with guile, finesse of Sneijder, Arshavin
5) True
6) Correct
7) No doubt

- ben - i didn't know you had it in you

Point 2 - with ref system, i was meaning a system for the team itself - ie what formation, what sort of players we use, are we playing counter attack, long ball, etc etc - but your bang on with regards to a GOOD youth set up and something to be added to the list

3) granted, Capello has only just started - we shall see how fairs

4)Ok, most people are saying we don't have enough guile/technical ability/creativity - although i agree to some extent - every team only has say two or three players (maybe with exception of the dutch) - England still have Rooney, Joe Cole, Gerrard

[Joe King]

4)Ok, most people are saying we don't have enough guile/technical ability/creativity - although i agree to some extent - every team only has say two or three players (maybe with exception of the dutch) - England still have Rooney, Joe Cole, Gerrard

Rooney and Gerrard aren't players with guile and finesse. Sure, they can dominate and destroy teams but they don't have that ability to change a game with a killer ball or skill. Joe Cole on the other hand does. I would like him to move off the left wing and with the players in the '3' rotate around naturally like the Dutch to create space for Rooney. Rooney isn't a natural striker however does have good movement so with Rooney, you can create gaps and opportunities for runners from midfield and the full backs.

[PTP]

I'm sorry - but......Gerrard can't change a game with a killer ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Joe King]

I'm sorry - but......Gerrard can't change a game with a killer ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If its the 90th minute and Torres is on the last man and you need someone to thread a ball, who would you have, Gerrard or Alonso?

[PTP]

If its the 90th minute and Torres is on the last man and you need someone to thread a ball, who would you have, Gerrard or Alonso?

Gerrard! - he's done it all season to torres - in fact it's been the highest point of the season, their partnership/

Without having a go at alonso - who undoubtedly can spread the ball 50 yds, I can't remember him playing a killer pass ala - gerrard to torres against NEwcastle, Derby etc etc

[Joe King]

Back to the original discussion, England don't have that Zidane character. A player who is the main man and the man who would lead them to victory. I don't see any of that England team doing that.

[PTP]

Agree - but does anyteam in the world (maybe brazil/kaka argentina/messi) have a Zidane - for me zidane is one of the top three of all time!!!

surely joe cole is as good as anyone currently playing in euro 2008 - excluding the dutch and the spanish i reckon Joe Cole would walk into every team in the comp and be pushing for a place in th dutch/spain

[Joe King]

Joe Cole needs to get more goals to become a top player. Would he get into the Dutch/Spanish teams? Who would he replace?

[PTP]

Joe Cole needs to get more goals to become a top player. Would he get into the Dutch/Spanish teams? Who would he replace?

I didn't say he would - i said he be pushing - for spain, probably silva, maybe iniesta who i don't really rate - dutch is a bit more difficult as they have robben and van persie as their attackers - he'd certainly be a close 2nd to either one of those tho, looking at the midfield is difficult to fit him too, they have this 'all important' system that england lack - joe cole is 'technically' streets ahead of Kuyt - but kuyt was an important part of the dutch system. - So as I said, he'd defo be pushing for a place in the dutch/spanish X1, and may miss out but only just. - He's walk into every other starting 11 in the euro tho.

[johnp]

FFS. This was a thread about two teams who are exciting to watch. Now we're talking about England

[Joe King]

I didn't say he would - i said he be pushing - for spain, probably silva, maybe iniesta who i don't really rate - dutch is a bit more difficult as they have robben and van persie as their attackers - he'd certainly be a close 2nd to either one of those tho, looking at the midfield is difficult to fit him too, they have this 'all important' system that england lack - joe cole is 'technically' streets ahead of Kuyt - but kuyt was an important part of the dutch system. - So as I said, he'd defo be pushing for a place in the dutch/spanish X1, and may miss out but only just. - He's walk into every other starting 11 in the euro tho.

You don't rate Iniesta?

I'd love to have him at Liverpool. The problem with Xavi and Iniesta is that Aragones has realised that they are badly conditioned due to the lack of training at Barcelona. We won't see the best out of these two in the championships.

[PTP]

No, this thread was about how the like of russia and turkey can perform to a level that includes superstars can't a why! - or at leasr thats what i made it into

[johnp]

No, this thread was about how the like of russia and turkey can perform to a level that includes superstars can't a why! - or at leasr thats what i made it into

Yeah, but it's ruining the buzz of how good those two have been

[PTP]

You don't rate Iniesta?

I'd love to have him at Liverpool. The problem with Xavi and Iniesta is that Aragones has realised that they are badly conditioned due to the lack of training at Barcelona. We won't see the best out of these two in the championships.

yeah from what i've seen of him for barca and in this tournement - tho i don't know what position he is supposed to be - is he a centre mid or a right mid - he looks to me like a centre mid being played right mid and if thats the case well then joe cole could well pip him in the starting XI