Tottenham Hotspur

[dww]

Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of Comolli or the Director of Football role in the game but surely Ramos has some say in identifying and specifying players to be brought in?

I imagine he has some input but Comolli has been poor over two managers. I remember in particular Jol saying he asked for a left back and holding midfielder and got a non-enitity and Zokora. This article indicates that Ramos was actually happy to accept the Spanish model of minimal input into signings.

[Matt]

When Robbie Keane left wolves, they got relegated.
When Robbie Keane left Coventry, they got relegated.
When Robbie Keane left Leeds, they got relegated.
When Robbie Keane left Spurs, .......

We'd better get him a new 60 year contract then. I'll be dead by that point with a bit of luck so i don't mind if we get relegated

Maybe, but he decides who they sell and buy, not the manager.

Can't imagine why any manager would want to be part of such a structure. It makes no sense. Dennis Wise is supposed in charge of recruitment at Newcastle yet Keegan was adamant that Wise reported to him - its hardly surprising that the club is in chaos.

[Dessy]

I imagine he has some input but Comolli has been poor over two managers. I remember in particular Jol saying he asked for a left back and holding midfielder and got a non-enitity and Zokora. This article indicates that Ramos was actually happy to accept the Spanish model of minimal input into signings.

Ramos is a fool if that article is to be believed.

Why on earth would a Club Manager compromise himself like this? Spanish Model aside, surely a club manager still retains some responsibility for identifying targets that will potentially develop and strengthen HIS side. To defer this responsibility elsewhere indicates a weakness in Ramos himself as a manager.

I think this can clearly be seen on and off the pitch at the moment with Spurs.

[SK]

[Jayesh87]

[dww]

Ramos is a fool if that article is to be believed.

Why on earth would a Club Manager compromise himself like this? Spanish Model aside, surely a club manager still retains some responsibility for identifying targets that will potentially develop and strengthen HIS side. To defer this responsibility elsewhere indicates a weakness in Ramos himself as a manager.

I think this can clearly be seen on and off the pitch at the moment with Spurs.

I get the impression that is a very English way of looking at it. In a lot of foreign countries what we think of as managers are really head coaches and the business and recruitment is largely done by others - even if the manager has some input. If that is how you are used to working - blending players and focusing on that aspect then I suspect it seems like a self contained job.

Part of the difference is that the media and fans here are used to the team having the stamp of only one man. In Spain it seems that the criticism is often split between the coach, director of football and the chairmen for bad seasons. Recruitment in a lot of Italy's big teams seems at least historically to often have run along the same lines.

Even given that I suspect, even at Spurs, it is a sliding scale where one of the inputs for identifying targets or types of targets is the manager. However the importance will vary.

If Ramos was reassured about the type of players coming in or happened to trust Comollis judgement then I think there is no reason for him to not want the job. I admit I had heard before he came (mostly on the Guardian podcast) that one of the reasons Ramos came was to take more control and emulate Rafa. He hasn't however said anything to back that view since he has been here.

I see no reason why a Director of Football + manager structure shouldn't work but the organisation has to be set up correctly, the roles well setout and the person in the DoF role has to be well suited. Comolli seems to be a self aggrandizing gob****e to me and therefore singularly ill suited to the role.

[Joe King]

Someone has been listening to Talk Sport.....

I never listen to that tripe. 5 Live all the way

[peekay]

I get the impression that is a very English way of looking at it. In a lot of foreign countries what we think of as managers are really head coaches and the business and recruitment is largely done by others - even if the manager has some input. If that is how you are used to working - blending players and focusing on that aspect then I suspect it seems like a self contained job.

Part of the difference is that the media and fans here are used to the team having the stamp of only one man. In Spain it seems that the criticism is often split between the coach, director of football and the chairmen for bad seasons. Recruitment in a lot of Italy's big teams seems at least historically to often have run along the same lines.

Even given that I suspect, even at Spurs, it is a sliding scale where one of the inputs for identifying targets or types of targets is the manager. However the importance will vary.

If Ramos was reassured about the type of players coming in or happened to trust Comollis judgement then I think there is no reason for him to not want the job. I admit I had heard before he came (mostly on the Guardian podcast) that one of the reasons Ramos came was to take more control and emulate Rafa. He hasn't however said anything to back that view since he has been here.

I see no reason why a Director of Football + manager structure shouldn't work but the organisation has to be set up correctly, the roles well setout and the person in the DoF role has to be well suited. Comolli seems to be a self aggrandizing gob****e to me and therefore singularly ill suited to the role.

Agreed. DOF structure will work only if the personalities of the people match. Look at our old Boot Room. Shankly had Paisley and Fagan ( two champions league winning managers) to draw opinions from. I cannot see such a group of talented people working together, setting aside personal agendas for the advancement of the club.

Ramos was happy with the structure at Sevilla because Monchi was the DOF. Most managers on the planet would be happy with Monchi. He remains in the background, stays away from the media, does not interfere with the first team signings and consistently delivers top quality youngsters at absurdly low prices. Most DOFs are not like that : Commolli, Arnesen, Wise - all of them like to have some input in the way first team is structured. This will piss off most managers as they view it as going behind their back to the owners.

[Dessy]

Agreed. DOF structure will work only if the personalities of the people match. Look at our old Boot Room. Shankly had Paisley and Fagan ( two champions league winning managers) to draw opinions from. I cannot see such a group of talented people working together, setting aside personal agendas for the advancement of the club.

Ramos was happy with the structure at Sevilla because Monchi was the DOF. Most managers on the planet would be happy with Monchi. He remains in the background, stays away from the media, does not interfere with the first team signings and consistently delivers top quality youngsters at absurdly low prices. Most DOFs are not like that : Commolli, Arnesen, Wise - all of them like to have some input in the way first team is structured. This will piss off most managers as they view it as going behind their back to the owners.

Is that the case with Commolli? I thought he was simply being judged on the quality of player he has brought in?

Is there a successful working model with a DoF in the Premiership? Most high profile examples appear to be failures?

[dww]

Is that the case with Commolli? I thought he was simply being judged on the quality of player he has brought in?

Is there a successful working model with a DoF in the Premiership? Most high profile examples appear to be failures?

Comolli also instigated the Jol for Ramos switch according to most reports. He has been quoted as saying that Jol wasn't getting the most out of some 'excellent' players he had bought.

I would say that Arnesen at Chelsea has done reasonably. It is difficult to tell as the real benefits of a youth orientated man like him take a long time to show through and they have had such financial power and short term goals. it is also not clear how influential he has been in terms of signings (other than Alex who looks to have been a very good buy).

I think a lot of the time the problem isn't so much the idea itself but that it is bought in by owners with a non-football background. In the UK a manager has traditionally been in charge of everything and so that is the idea of both English managers and many coaches who come in expect. It needs to be handled more carefully than it usually has been IMO. I know it is not in the PL but for example the Bristol Rovers systems is thought to work quite well by people I have heard talk about it. They chose an older experienced head to give back up and an overview to a younger up and coming manager.

I also think teams seem to look for too much short term reward when the whole point of a DoF should be to establish a long term strategy for a club. Under Arnesen and Jol Spurs seemed to be going that way - looking to build a team of young English players in the main supplemented by the odd older head like Davids.

On another note Inside Sport last night bought up the fact Spurs have bought 84 players in the last 4 years (I think that was the figure) and that sort of turn over is exactly what a DoF should be looking to prevent.

[Dessy]

Comolli also instigated the Jol for Ramos switch according to most reports. He has been quoted as saying that Jol wasn't getting the most out of some 'excellent' players he had bought.

I would say that Arnesen at Chelsea has done reasonably. It is difficult to tell as the real benefits of a youth orientated man like him take a long time to show through and they have had such financial power and short term goals. it is also not clear how influential he has been in terms of signings (other than Alex who looks to have been a very good buy).

I think a lot of the time the problem isn't so much the idea itself but that it is bought in by owners with a non-football background. In the UK a manager has traditionally been in charge of everything and so that is the idea of both English managers and many coaches who come in expect. It needs to be handled more carefully than it usually has been IMO. I know it is not in the PL but for example the Bristol Rovers systems is thought to work quite well by people I have heard talk about it. They chose an older experienced head to give back up and an overview to a younger up and coming manager.

I also think teams seem to look for too much short term reward when the whole point of a DoF should be to establish a long term strategy for a club. Under Arnesen and Jol Spurs seemed to be going that way - looking to build a team of young English players in the main supplemented by the odd older head like Davids.

On another note Inside Sport last night bought up the fact Spurs have bought 84 players in the last 4 years (I think that was the figure) and that sort of turn over is exactly what a DoF should be looking to prevent.

I think your original point on clarity and defined responsibilities is key and one supported seemingly by Arsene Wenger in his recent support of Comolli.

Having said that, I think the one thing Spurs seem to have lacked so far is leadership both on the field and off it and having heard on the news that the Spurs Board have come out in support of Ramos and also that Comolli is set to leave maybe they have have realised the error of their ways?

It will be interesting to see how Ramos fairs under his own steam if that is the case.

At the time of his appointment (and Jol's departure) my immediate thoughts were that it reeked of desperation. In truth he didn't inspire and I found it strange that he would place himself into a job knowing his predecessor had basically been undermined by a DoF.

I sincerely hope Spurs pull themselves out of the mire, however, I have a nagging doubt about Ramos's ability to turn them into anything but a mediocre mid table team.

[Gaz]

I think your original point on clarity and defined responsibilities is key and one supported seemingly by Arsene Wenger in his recent support of Comolli.

Having said that, I think the one thing Spurs seem to have lacked so far is leadership both on the field and off it and having heard on the news that the Spurs Board have come out in support of Ramos and also that Comolli is set to leave maybe they have have realised the error of their ways?

It will be interesting to see how Ramos fairs under his own steam if that is the case.

At the time of his appointment (and Jol's departure) my immediate thoughts were that it reeked of desperation. In truth he didn't inspire and I found it strange that he would place himself into a job knowing his predecessor had basically been undermined by a DoF.

I sincerely hope Spurs pull themselves out of the mire, however, I have a nagging doubt about Ramos's ability to turn them into anything but a mediocre mid table team.

Definately agree with that point, on the field they're just screaming out for someone to grab hold of the game by the scruff of the neck and Jermaine Jenas as captain is a ****ing crazy decision, that lad couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!

Stephen Appiah's available on a free and he'd definately strengthen their centre midfield and would allow Modric to play further forward and bring some much needed leadership to them

[Pablo]

I assume Jenas is captain as he is now their longest serving player

I would have Woodgate as captain personally.

[Sisterstiffticket]

I feel for you mate i really do, was watching the game today and imagining how i would feel if i was a Spurs fan, fair play to you for the way you handle the situation, and coming on here too, you must be hurting inside so good on ya.

Ps. I couldn't go on another teams site and interact as you do, i would be losing it good style with every 'humorous' comment made about my team.

Red....Thanks mate.
I have been missing in traction for the last few days with a broken heart!
I watched the highlights on MOTD against Stoke as it was like watching the assassination of JFK over and over again. You know, where part of you says, 'don't watch this SST,' but the other half keeps watching for the bit where his brains fall out of his head.
Apologies for the analogy but the last two defeats was like that.
Before that, we were shot, but losing to Hull & Stoke was like the brains on the back seat...a kind of..."****! This is REAL" sort of moment.

But now I'm a little bit better and really looking forward to the game at the emirates stadium in a week or two. Who knows...by then, we might even have beaten Bol...oh, no. I forgot. The brains are all over the seat.

[Sisterstiffticket]

Carries on like this and Spurs themselves will be gone.

I want to ask Sisterstiffticket if those Spurs fans on that forum still think they're better than us and might steal our top four place this season.

Mmm, I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I said the tide may be turning a tad...In one or two quarters at any rate.