Adam Hammill

[DannyMan2006]

Don't agree at all. The players who show the most talent and potential should be the one's we hang on to and therefore give 'priority' to.

You'll not be saying that when FIFA bring in some pathetic homegrown rule.

And the thing to remember about local lads is that they're much more likely to remain loyal and potentially accept a place as squad back up.

So whilst I see your point, surely you can also see mine?

[DannyMan2006]

Not convinced by that argument at all. None of the young players we have let go have done anything in the game. You really can't expect Rafa to polish turds.

I think only some of that is true. After all, letting a player go would mean he is likely to end up at a team with where their coaches are not at the same level as Liverpools.

Every player you ever speak too will always say that playing with better players in training, and learning of the best coaches, is a big difference. That said, the balance between playing and not must also be right.

[Mattshark]

Hammill has been consistently far more impressive than El Zhar in the reserves.

I think the reasoning behind why El Zhar went into the team and Hammill isn't anywhere near are more than just objective assessments, but that's just me.

El Zhar wouldn't be anywhere near any first team in the Premier League, come on, the lad is quick and neat but he can't shoot to save his life.

And if he was a striker that would be a problem.

And how many reserve games have you seen Hammil in since El Zhar joined the club exactly? He has been on loan the last 2 seasons and being honest he never looked good enough in the Championship, so why on Earth is he good enough for the prem or a relatively decent Morocco squad.

[JohnDoe]

Not convinced by that argument at all. None of the young players we have let go have done anything in the game. You really can't expect Rafa to polish turds.

There are critical stages where a player needs the right atmosphere to develop. It's not all "if you're good enough, you'll make it", especially when we're talking about decent players, not everyone who breaks through from the academy is supposed to be a wonderkid. Squad players have a role too and could save us a lot of money.

Up until recently it is clear that Rafa hasn't faith in the youth setup or control of it so I think it is slightly unfair to judge him yet.

That's where I'm getting at. Rafa didn't have control over the youth setup, so he ruled it out completely, and in some individual cases, unfairly.

In terms of young players he has bought though Momo (he had him at Valencia), Insua and El Zhar to differing levels. The fact that we haven't had many more players is a combination of the fact it is actually hard to produce players of PL let alone top 4 standard. United and Arsenal have had years to create a top setup and still haven't bought through many players in recent years. They have also sold loads of players under the radar without giving them a chance - the difference is that we follow our reserves fortunes and not theirs.

The amount of players coming through the mancs' youth system is staggering. Just look how many players from there are scattered around the Premier League. I don't believe it's all because our youth system was so **** that nobody was good enough in the last 10 years.

[JohnDoe]

And how many reserve games have you seen Hammil in since El Zhar joined the club exactly? He has been on loan the last 2 seasons.

You're right, my mistake. Hammill has been sent out on loan where he's been impressive enough to attract attention at The Championship level, while El Zhar hasn't been a stand out player in the reserves.

[Mattshark]

You're right, my mistake. Hammill has been sent out on loan where he's been impressive enough to attract attention at The Championship level, while El Zhar hasn't been a stand out player in the reserves.

Yeah, he was with our first team instead. Your argument has no grounds.

[Cormack74]

On the few occasions I've seen Hammill, generally thought he looked decent. Bit disappointing if we let him go without a sniff of a first team run out.

[Mattshark]

There are critical stages where a player needs the right atmosphere to develop. It's not all "if you're good enough, you'll make it", especially when we're talking about decent players, not everyone who breaks through from the academy is supposed to be a wonderkid. Squad players have a role too and could save us a lot of money.



That's where I'm getting at. Rafa didn't have control over the youth setup, so he ruled it out completely, and in some individual cases, unfairly.



The amount of players coming through the mancs' youth system is staggering. Just look how many players from there are scattered around the Premier League. I don't believe it's all because our youth system was so **** that nobody was good enough in the last 10 years.

Our youth players are around, just not in the prem, but god help that they might just not be good enough.

And who exactly has been ruled out unfairly?

[JohnDoe]

Yeah, he was with our first team instead.

He was given a chance. Hammill never had that chance.

[Mattshark]

He was given a chance. Hammill never had that chance.

Maybe cos he just wasn't good enough.

[JohnDoe]

Maybe cos he just wasn't good enough.

Or maybe because Rafa didn't sign him.

[Exiled_red]

There are critical stages where a player needs the right atmosphere to develop. It's not all "if you're good enough, you'll make it", especially when we're talking about decent players, not everyone who breaks through from the academy is supposed to be a wonderkid. Squad players have a role too and could save us a lot of money.



That's where I'm getting at. Rafa didn't have control over the youth setup, so he ruled it out completely, and in some individual cases, unfairly.



The amount of players coming through the mancs' youth system is staggering. Just look how many players from there are scattered around the Premier League. I don't believe it's all because our youth system was so **** that nobody was good enough in the last 10 years.

We've had a few players that came through the youth system and played in the Premiership for other clubs, David Thompson, Stephen Warnock, Stephen Wright (Neil Mellor in Championship) etc, admittedly these players had some chances here but Gerrard aside they were undoubtedly the best we produced in the last 10 years. Of all the other players we've let go none have made it in the Premiership (hardly any have even made it in the championship) most are in the lower leagues at best. To me this would suggest that the academy isn't producing players that are good enough. If they were good enough and it was simply a case of Rafa not giving them a chance they would be making an impact at Premiership (or Championship) clubs, the fact they are not, for me vindicates the decision to let them go.

EDIT: Also for me the fact that some of these players shine at reserve level but struggle to make an impact at first team level (not just for us but premiership or championship level) shows the importance of getting young players loan experience.

[Mattshark]

Or maybe because Rafa didn't sign him.

Pathetic argument and stick to beat Rafa with.

[JohnDoe]

He has the academy now, we'll see what he can do. Maybe he won't sign 30 average youngsters every year who have no chance of making it, stick them in the reserves and clog up the system.

[BFG]

You'll not be saying that when FIFA bring in some pathetic homegrown rule.

And the thing to remember about local lads is that they're much more likely to remain loyal and potentially accept a place as squad back up.

So whilst I see your point, surely you can also see mine?

Now you've given your reasoning I can mate.

That said I'd rather have good young foreign players coming through and buy an Englishman like Johnson every year than have substandard 'homegrown' players kept on purely due to their nationality.