Last 16

[cream]

Because I do believe that man-for-man, England are at least as good as that Germany side. There's another reason other than just it being the players. There are about 4 or 5 first XI England players who aren't up to it, and we notice that, but I think the same is true of the Krauts. There's something else and I don't know what it is.

There is something missing, its creativity. Where are the English equivalents to Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Kaka, Iniesta, Ozil, Silva, Alonso, Fabregas, Ribery, Robben etc etc etc?

[Craig_H]

But it's not the same 'team collective' as 20 years ago. Must be something in the England team culture to survive multiple managers and teams. Would put the blame mainly at the maneger if it was just one tournament, afterall, Capello was very poor, but there must be more.

I think there's something inherent in english mentality, not just in football, but in life generally, to want to achieve success by putting in just the bare minimum.

Using Germany as an example, they're efficient in the way they do things, hard-working and cohesive. England, for whatever reason, is different to this.

Now you have fans on SSN having a go at the players, for not caring enough etc - fair enough. Then the same guy says get rid of Capello, because they want an english manager.

Well, those players are all english and they didnt deliver either. So why would an english manager do the business? Venables didnt win anything, neither did Robson (rest his soul) and neither did McLaren.

The problem is deep rooted within the english mentality and as long as the powers that be ignore that and keep looking for another reason why england doesnt succeed, the problem will not be solved.

[Mostar]

Defensively Germany were leaky, even in the group stages. Argentina are ropey defensively, too.

Uruguay and Brazil look the most rounded of the teams left, I think.

Absolutely but I do think Germany has more pace and speed and they can and will explore Argos defensive shortcomings better. If they can control the midfield I'd put my money on them.

[SK]

Just to get me into this discussion, German football of late(at least at club level) has been all about attacking, and not about being disciplined and defensive, So it'll be interesting to see against Argentina(or even Mexico) how they cope when faced against better offensive players than the ones they have, and will have to be in defensive mode practically the entire match.

They were good today, but much like against Australia they were made to look even better by their opposition not living up the importance of the match.

Mesut Ozil looks like a fantastic player though

[Leyton388]

Matt Upson? Really? I mean Really?

[Kenneth]

Better passing, movement, creativity, pace, effort, ambition and finishing.

They were the reasons they were better in this game, yes. But I am trying to understand what the underlying reason is. I don't believe it's because German players are intrinsically better at passing, movement, creativity, pace, effort, ambition and finishing.

Maybe they are?

Or maybe their players just aren't self interested cunts (Now Ballack is injured)

[BrooklynRed]

i'm sad for all the good people of england.

but the ones who laughed at the us team have just made me a very happy man

Word brother. And now that they've been hosed by a disallowed goal, it's an issue, as opposed to the USA having two good ones taken away. Anyway, we won't need to hear much more now...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ1cJQ17sSk"]YouTube- Friday-You got knock the f**k out!!![/ame]

[Redspin]

Rooney's been England's worst player over all four of the games? Has for me. Fabio has been utter **** though.

Yes Rooney has been shockingly bad. Not scoring is one thing, but he never ever even looks like scoring. Easily the most over-rated player on the planet.

So he's now played in two successive World Cups (although some idiot on here the other day said he hadn't played in a major tournament since 2004) without scoring and yet he was being touted by lots of people before the tournament as best player in the world. Terry Venables said so in as many words.

If a country goes into a tournament without a big international game scorer (Like Owen was but Rooney never has been and never will be) and then plays the utterly outdated 4-4-2 with the best midfielder playing on the left then there's only going to be one outcome.

England's shameful performances in this World Cup has shown up Cappello as being nothing more than an Italian version of Steve McLaren.

Anyway, on the bright side, maybe the FA will grow a pair, sack the useless manager and appoint the obvious candidate - Roy Hodgson - thus doing all Liverpool fans a favour

[Craig_H]

Really insightful.

In what way? WHat is it that makes them better, because it isn't the abilities of the players.

They're better because their players are better at being organised and staying together as a cohesive unit. England are just ****e at the above.

Look at england's defending today - complete lack of unity and cohesiveness.

Is it because of a lack of effort, a lack of time spent working at it? Who knows but ultimately, Germany are better than England and the fact that they KEEP going a long way in tournaments, while england always go home early, is evidence enough of this.

[little dave hedgehog]

i don't want hi but there were a fair few who did last season.

[Leyton388]

Oh well in a couple of weeks those england players will be back at their club and having their Ego's stroked and told they are world class.

[Mostar]

Just to get me into this discussion, German football of late(at least at club level) has been all about attacking, and not about being disciplined and defensive, So it'll be interesting to see against Argentina(or even Mexico) how they cope when faced against better offensive players than the ones they have, and will have to be in defensive mode practically the entire match.

They were good today, but much like against Australia they were made to look even better by their opposition not living up the importance of the match.

Mesut Ozil looks like a fantastic player though

Him and Muller were outstanding pretty much entire WC. Very exciting players. Too bad (****y budget if any) we could not turn them into reds.

[MrsB]

YouTube- Octopus predicts England result against Germany

Paul was right.

[paulg]

Absolutely but I do think Germany has more pace and speed and they can and will explore Argos defensive shortcomings better. If they can control the midfield I'd put my money on them.

I think Ozil could be the player of the tournament, if they go further. He really is a talent.

I agree with Craig, we have this attitude of we should win cos we are English. It's arrogance that makes me sick. It's everywhere, the tabloids, the FA with their refusal to review coaching methods. All this "an English manager would be better than Capello". Surely, the fact that Capello has failed so badly with England is more of a reflection of England? He's won everywhere else he's been.

[Kenneth]

Matt Upson? Really? I mean Really?

Indeed. Although Per Mertesacker is equally ****e.