Martin Kelly

[BootRoom]

All I really remember about that game was our disallowed winner but I'm sure you're right. He looked good against Sunderland but then so did everyone.

Kelly got dominated by Everton too - second half I think - which also was costly.

Kelly didn't play in that game.

[BootRoom]

We are 8th place and have been leaking goals for fun this season. Another competent and proven defender in our squad would have been vital. A far superior option than Wisdom.

What, our defensive woes are attributable to a severe defeciency at right back, and Martin Kelly is the answer to these woes?

[el matador]

We are 8th place and have been leaking goals for fun this season. Another competent and proven defender in our squad would have been vital. A far superior option than Wisdom.

hes three years older than wisdom which is huge in terms of development at that age.

he's just a better all round player at the moment - he's athletic, tall, very quick and gets forward well from the right hand side. Wisdom has all this to come yet but im sure he will get there.

Its a shame kellys not left footed because injuries apart, he could have had the left hand side sewn up for us.

[danperkins]

What, our defensive woes are attributable to a severe defeciency at right back, and Martin Kelly is the answer to these woes?

Left back, Johnson can more than deputise there and Kelly more than deputise at RB.

Enrique has only been good recently. We've relied on Wisdom at RB and he has looked out of his depth.

We could really have done with Kelly

[danperkins]

hes three years older than wisdom which is huge in terms of development at that age.

he's just a better all round player at the moment - he's athletic, tall, very quick and gets forward well from the right hand side. Wisdom has all this to come yet but im sure he will get there.

Its a shame kellys not left footed because injuries apart, he could have had the left hand side sewn up for us.

Kelly is very talented and good head on his shoulders, he is just unlucky Johnson is ahead of him

Hopefully Wisdom materialises, looks uncomfortable at RB and obviously is a CB. But like Kelly there are better players ahead of him in that position.

[Neil Young]

Kelly didn't play in that game.

Different Everton game.

The one where Anichebe came on in the second half and we learned Kelly couldn't challenge in the air.

[BootRoom]

Different Everton game.

The one where Anichebe came on in the second half and we learned Kelly couldn't challenge in the air.

Funnily enough, I don't think Wisdom is all that good in the air, especially for somebody that is supposed to really be a CB.

[danperkins]

Funnily enough, I don't think Wisdom is all that good in the air, especially for somebody that is supposed to really be a CB.

Wisdom has a brilliant leap. Just inexperienced at top level, positional naive at RB & very raw.

[BootRoom]

Left back, Johnson can more than deputise there and Kelly more than deputise at RB.

Enrique has only been good recently. We've relied on Wisdom at RB and he has looked out of his depth.

We could really have done with Kelly

We haven't been shipping goals due to Wisdom playing at right back. Also, Kelly isn't creative going forward so we haven't missed any goal threat from that position, thus the absence of Kelly from the squad hasn't been 'vital'. He's a decent youngish player among several decent young players.

[danperkins]

We haven't been shipping goals due to Wisdom playing at right back. Also, Kelly isn't creative going forward so we haven't missed any goal threat from that position, thus the absence of Kelly from the squad hasn't been 'vital'. He's a decent youngish player among several decent young players.

Yes we have, he cost us goals in the opening games he played. His mistakes are very evident when you review the goals we conceded and this was highlighted at the time. In particular had an absolute nightmare vs Everton...amongst others

The idea of a squad is to have decent back up and bodies available to deputise when needed. Kelly has clearly proved to can do this and has valuable premier league experience, aswell as giving a very good account of himself in those games over recent years.

Him being 'injured' and 'unavailable', Wisdom and Robinson being completely raw & Enrique having a nightmare, to me means that having someone like Kelly fit would have been vital to us. Now Enrique is injured Downing transitioning to LB as oppose to Glen Johnson is a bit more difficult. Kelly available to slot in at RB to cover Johnson would have been perfect.

[RedReet]

We are 8th place and have been leaking goals for fun this season. Another competent and proven defender in our squad would have been vital. A far superior option than Wisdom.

Although TBF a few months ago you thought Kelly was better than Johnson, so not too surprising.

[danperkins]

Although TBF a few months ago you thought Kelly was better than Johnson, so not too surprising.

Better out and out defender, attacking wise not a chance

Johnson has improved defensively this season, has been brilliant for us.

P.S. More than a few months?

[RedReet]

You thought he was a better all round RB. (And it was only towards the end of last season).

Johnson was excellent last year too, one of our best performers under Kenny in his season and half.

Anyway, there isn't that much between Kelly and Wisdom, both good defenders, both good athlete's but both let down in final third.

[BootRoom]

Yes we have, he cost us goals in the opening games he played. His mistakes are very evident when you review the goals we conceded and this was highlighted at the time. In particular had an absolute nightmare vs Everton...amongst others

The idea of a squad is to have decent back up and bodies available to deputise when needed. Kelly has clearly proved to can do this and has valuable premier league experience, aswell as giving a very good account of himself in those games over recent years.

Him being 'injured' and 'unavailable', Wisdom and Robinson being completely raw & Enrique having a nightmare, to me means that having someone like Kelly fit would have been vital to us. Now Enrique is injured Downing transitioning to LB as oppose to Glen Johnson is a bit more difficult. Kelly available to slot in at RB to cover Johnson would have been perfect.

Wisdom has started 13 games, and in those 13 games we've conceded a total of 13 goals. Now point out which goals Wisdom was responsible for with his 'very evident' mistakes, making sure that the total matches your hyperbole. Here's an aide-mémoire for you: http://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Pl...eason/1229-122

[danperkins]

You thought he was a better all round RB. (And it was only towards the end of last season).

Johnson was excellent last year too, one of our best performers under Kenny in his season and half.

Anyway, there isn't that much between Kelly and Wisdom, both good defenders, both good athlete's but both let down in final third.

I said a defender should be able to defend first and foremost, everything else after that is a bonus

I've checked through the Kelly vs Johnson thread, last i posted about it was 21-11-11. Not a few months ago & not at end of last season & i never said Kelly was better all round, i said he was a better natural defender & i had debate with you about Alan Hansen ripping apart Johnson's body positioning throughout the season.