If Messi...

[anfieldanfield]

....never dominates a World Cup he will never been placed in the same bracket as the greats of the game like Pele, Maradona, Zidane and others, no matter what he does for Barcelona.

Agree or disagree ?

[Chrono]

Disagree. I think it would be unfair to judge him almost entirely on internationals. What about if he was from Bosnia or Iceland? I appreciate that Argentina isn't at that level but putting Maradona in charge means that at least up until now his chances of taking his team to an international trophy was slim. It's also worth noting that Spain in particular are on another level to Argentina right now.

[dww]

Disagree. I think it would be unfair to judge him almost entirely on internationals. What about if he was from Bosnia or Iceland? I appreciate that Argentina isn't at that level but putting Maradona in charge means that at least up until now his chances of taking his team to an international trophy was slim. It's also worth noting that Spain in particular are on another level to Argentina right now.

The CL is a higher standard of football than the World Cup now anyway in my opinion. Viewing achievement through the lens of internationals as the pinnacle seems out dated to me.

[The Erectile Banana]

Agree with the two previous posters.

The game has changed a lot since Maradona single-handedly dominated the 1986 World Cup. Given the increased athelticism and fitness levels in the sport I doubt that will ever happen again.

And as the others have said the World Cup has been surprassed by the CL as the highest level of football.

[anfieldanfield]

A lot of people don't watch the CL, let alone Spanish footy.

They will watch their own league and then tune in for the World Cup.

I'd say a big percentage of football fans wont recognise Messi as one of the greatest until he has done it on the biggest, worldwide stage.

[Darkon]

players like van basten, stoichkov, schmeichel, michael laudrup, our own KK etc. etc. will always be amongst the great no matter if the won a WC or not, so for me it's far from a defintion of one of the all time greats.

[dww]

Not sure why one would use the number of people watching, as opposed to the quality of opposition as the benchmark really.

Nonetheless, the Champions league final is the most watched annual sporting event in the world. It's pretty well covered. The world cup also suffers from the problems alluded to by the honourable banana - with it being every four years so many contingent factors can prevent a player from showing their wares in that brief period of time.

Are Georges Best and Weah not great players because of the nations of their birth?

[Chrono]

I'd say a big percentage of football fans wont recognise Messi as one of the greatest until he has done it on the biggest, worldwide stage.

What sort of football fans are these? As far as I can tell even the third world slums have satellite hookups for the Spanish and English top leagues and especially the CL.

My mum probably wont rate him as the best as she only ever bothers to watch big world cup games for England but then she wouldn't even claim to be a football fan. I would suggest any football fan right now that doesn't know of Messi is living on the moon and winning a World Cup wont change that.

[RedReet]

....never dominates a World Cup he will never been placed in the same bracket as the greats of the game like Pele, Maradona, Zidane and others, no matter what he does for Barcelona.

Agree or disagree ?

Disagree as mentioned in other thread.

What was the other thread though, can't find it now. Was it merged?

[wavydavy]

players like van basten, stoichkov, schmeichel, michael laudrup, our own KK etc. etc. will always be amongst the great no matter if the won a WC or not, so for me it's far from a defintion of one of the all time greats.

Likewise some pretty ****/average players have WC Winners medals sitting on the mantlepiece. In no way is it a benchmark for a truly great player.

[dww]

Disagree as mentioned in other thread.

What was the other thread though, can't find it now. Was it merged?

The other discussion started in an unrelated thread:

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=74863

[PTP]

i think if Argentina had or get one world cup win, were he played well, maybe scored a couple then Messi would probably be thought of as the greatest.

He has certainly done enough and shown enough to so far be classed amongst the greatest of all time - Ronaldo, Zidane, Pele and Maradona all have their world cup moments, but if messi has his, he'll be listed above all

If he doesn't - he'll still be ranked 'amongst' them

[RedReet]

The other discussion started in an unrelated thread:
http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=74863

Couldn't find it anywhere and thought I was losing the plot.

[Icon]

I think many people already regard Messi one of the greatest footballers of a generation...

[peekay]

I would rate Pele, Maradona, and Zidane among the all time great players. If Messi has to be viewed in that league, he will have to perform well at a world cup. I am not saying Argentina should win it, but Messi should be the star of that tournament. Until he does that I dont think he can be viewed in the top three.

Irrespective of the quality of football, the World cup is the biggest stage and he needs to perform there. Previous world cup he had the disadvantage of being managed by a crazy coke addict. Next world cup, hopefully he wont have that disadvantage. Argentina may not be Spain but they are not a bad team. If he inspires that team to a final appearance, he can claim his place among Pele, Maradona and Zidane.