Manchester City

[Fredo]

Guardiola took a lot of criticism last season, much like Klopp this one. It pays to remain stubborn to your principles.

[Kenneth]

So did David Moyes. 2+2=5

[Fredo]

So did David Moyes. 2+2=5

I'm talking about Guardiola, not Moyes.

[Kenneth]

I know, you're drawing parallels based on nothing more than two people both receiving criticism, but half the managers in the league received criticism last year, stuck to their principles and got sacked or are still under pressure.

[Fredo]

I know, you're drawing parallels based on nothing more than two people both receiving criticism, but half the managers in the league received criticism last year, stuck to their principles and got sacked or are still under pressure.

That's not the point though, you are generalising when I'm not.

Guardiola was criticised for not 'understanding' the English league and for trying to play in a particular style here when pragmatism should have been used. He didn't and is, as far as the start of this season is going, showing that his system can work and he hasn't changed one bit. Does help when you have loads of cash mind.

[Kenneth]

The was criticised for buying and playing a whopper of a keeper, playing players out of position. He bought the players he needed and after a year his team understand what his master plan is. We haven't and they don't really. The comparison doesn't really stack up.

[Fredo]

The was criticised for buying and playing a whopper of a keeper, playing players out of position. He bought the players he needed and after a year his team understand what his master plan is. We haven't and they don't really. The comparison doesn't really stack up.

Hmmm...

Stones and Otamendi in central defence today and Fabian Delph at left back. And looking at the line up further forward, bar Jesus, I'm not sure there is that much change in personnel. He even has Mangala back from a hiatus in Spain.

Of course players understand his plan much better, that's what you'd expect when a manager has so much of a defined plan and sticks by it.

[red g]

Hmmm...

Stones and Otamendi in central defence today and Fabian Delph at left back. And looking at the line up further forward, bar Jesus, I'm not sure there is that much change in personnel. He even has Mangala back from a hiatus in Spain.

Of course players understand his plan much better, that's what you'd expect when a manager has so much of a defined plan and sticks by it.

Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Danilo, Walker, Jesus...... I see what you mean only about £180million pounds worth of changes in there squad today.

Guardiola Identified the issue which was the fullbacks & Keeper spent a squillion quid because he can and look what the results are.

Pretty sure if Klopp had a bottomless pit we wouldn't be lining up with a few of the players we have!!!

[danperkins]

Mendy another 50m. When you can throw that amount of money around every window, eventually you will get it right. Zero comparisons between him and Klopp their situations are night and day.

[RedReet]

Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Danilo, Walker, Jesus...... I see what you mean only about £180million pounds worth of changes in there squad today.

Guardiola Identified the issue which was the fullbacks & Keeper spent a squillion quid because he can and look what the results are.

Pretty sure if Klopp had a bottomless pit we wouldn't be lining up with a few of the players we have!!!

The only changes from last years team in the starting lineup were Walker and Ederson. Keeper conceded two goals and Walker scored an OG, so it's ridiculous to suggest they scored 7 goals and destroyed another team purely because of teh money spent.

It's a fair comparison Fredo makes and obviously Kenneth is just being his contrary self to make the Moyes comment. Moyes was never a successful manager and his underdog tactics were never going to work at a big club. Klopp, like Guardiola is a world class manager, has a history of success and knows exactly what he wants from his teams, but it will take time to reach his objectives. We only have to look at what happened to Rodgers when here, he lost faith in his principles and by the time he was sacked, the team had no identity and his only solution to every problem was to play 3 at the back.

[red g]

The only changes from last years team in the starting lineup were Walker and Ederson. Keeper conceded two goals and Walker scored an OG, so it's ridiculous to suggest they scored 7 goals and destroyed another team purely because of teh money spent.

It's a fair comparison Fredo makes and obviously Kenneth is just being his contrary self to make the Moyes comment. Moyes was never a successful manager and his underdog tactics were never going to work at a big club. Klopp, like Guardiola is a world class manager, has a history of success and knows exactly what he wants from his teams, but it will take time to reach his objectives. We only have to look at what happened to Rodgers when here, he lost faith in his principles and by the time he was sacked, the team had no identity and his only solution to every problem was to play 3 at the back.

But they are on a crest of a wave and playing with confidence enabling a there great start and its ridiculous to say that doesnt have anything to do with the fact that Pep can plug any problems in his team with as many 50m+ players he wants.

[Maxiedge]

It's that midfield 3 containing KDB and Silva that's really been the key for them. Those two are very creative footballers and passes are measured to perfection.

However, the only really muscle they have in midfield is Fernandinho and they can be got at. That would be the key for me, overrunning them in midfield and not letting Silva and KDB play.

[Trippendicular]

Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Danilo, Walker, Jesus...... I see what you mean only about £180million pounds worth of changes in there squad today.

Guardiola Identified the issue which was the fullbacks & Keeper spent a squillion quid because he can and look what the results are.

Pretty sure if Klopp had a bottomless pit we wouldn't be lining up with a few of the players we have!!!

Mendy another 50m. When you can throw that amount of money around every window, eventually you will get it right. Zero comparisons between him and Klopp their situations are night and day.

I did the maths after we played them and the average price of their starting XI was a couple of million more than our most expensive ever player (Salah). They’re playing great football but it’s crazy to expect us to compete with that kind of spending.

[RedReet]

But they are on a crest of a wave and playing with confidence enabling a there great start and its ridiculous to say that doesnt have anything to do with the fact that Pep can plug any problems in his team with as many 50m+ players he wants.

But nobody did say that. Even Fredo in his original post which started this debate referenced the advantage being able to spend the money. Of course the money/players were a massive factor, it would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

This is the way Pep has always managed though and he doesn't care that he's seen as a chequebook manager. He was accused of being too stubborn last year because he refused to change they way his team played. Klopp is the opposite, he tries to develop players, hold out for primary targets and not buy players for the sake of it, but ultimately he's still choosing to manage this way in the face of strong public criticism. Similarly with how he sets his team up and asks them to play, he's told he can't set up a defence, needs to buy a DM, needs a CF, but like Guardiola, this won't deter him.

So yes, even though the situations and the approaches are completely different, there are still parallels that can be drawn between both managers which was the point Fredo made. We can’t follow City’s example and go spend £200m every transfer window, but what we can do is follow City’s example and support the manager, trust in his methods and give him time to build the squad he wants and play the type of football he wants. If anything, the main difference the money has made is it has sped up the process for City.

[gratziani]

I thought Walker was a waste of money , but seems to have hit the ground running in their system.

They play with Silva and De Bruyne in midfield and this doesn't seem to impact the defensive side of things .

Perhaps we need to get back to just playing our attacking players and drop on of Can / Hendo or Wij or maybe 2 of them .