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    It's nothing that a lot of us didn't already predict earlier in the season (despite our lack of objectivity ), but fun to read all the same.


    [ame]https://twitter.com/Zonal_Marking/status/1449995415168954368[/ame]

    In one sense, Manchester United’s 4-2 defeat by Leicester could be considered something of a freak result.

    The scoreline was 1-1 for the majority of the game, both sides significantly overperformed their xG, and four of the game’s six goals came in the frenetic final 12 minutes — three of them scored by Leicester. It was one of those brilliant periods where strategy and tactics go out of the window, giving way to chaos and luck.

    In another sense, Leicester running out convincing winners fitted the game’s pattern. Brendan Rodgers’ side were more organised without possession and more purposeful with the ball. In both aspects of the game, they were considerably more cohesive than Manchester United, who are based around individualism, and are weaker than the sum of their parts.

    The poster boy for their current malaise, of course, is Cristiano Ronaldo. He is 36 and, in stark contrast to title rivals whose forwards press relentlessly, Ronaldo simply doesn’t have the physical capacity to repeatedly press — or really, to press at all. The fact he was bottom of these figures — taken from the beginning of the month — came as a surprise to no one.



    The extent to which he was bottom, however — pressing half as much as the next least-active player — does summarise the degree to which manager and team-mates must reshape to cope.

    Manchester United knew the deal when signing Ronaldo: they would get little out of him in terms of regaining possession, but would be sure of a goal per game or pretty close to it. Ronaldo has largely kept to his side of the deal. He has averaged a goal every 111 minutes, none of them penalties. If he had taken and scored United’s late penalty against Aston Villa, he’d be pretty much bang on a goal per game.

    His previous Manchester United, Real Madrid, Juventus and Portugal sides have been, to varying extents, structured to cover for him. If he played on the left, the opposite winger would tuck inside more. If he played up front, the wide players or No 10 would play deeper than they would have expected. When Ronaldo leaves, others — Wayne Rooney, Karim Benzema — go up a level because they’re no longer playing second fiddle.

    But Manchester United are not successfully covering for him. Without possession they are neither one thing nor the other — they don’t drop off successfully and form a compact block, and they don’t press. The consequence is that the opposition easily play through them.

    Here’s what happened when United dropped off against Leicester.

    The first time you see a Leicester pass arrowed through United’s midfield to a man in space, like this one from Boubakary Soumare towards Kelechi Iheanacho, you think it might just be a one-off example of good attacking play.



    After the second, from Youri Tielemans to James Maddison, you question whether Manchester United’s holding midfield duo of Nemanja Matic and Paul Pogba are positioned correctly.



    For the third time — Maddison to Tielemans — you consider the positions of the wide players, vaguely in pressing positions but without the side applying any pressure to the man on the ball, and start to feel sympathy for Matic and Pogba, being forced to cover so much lateral space.



    And then when Tielemans receives the ball and spins, you realise the extent of the gap between midfield and defence, and that Matic and Pogba are being forced to cover so much ground vertically, too.



    And here’s what happens when United pressed.

    It’s not clear if Ronaldo is trying to press himself in this position, but he glances behind him and gestures for Mason Greenwood to push forward and shut down Caglar Soyuncu.



    Greenwood does as he’s told, but there’s no actual tactic in his pressing here — he’s not cutting off any passing angles. If he was in a more organised side, he might bend his run to block off the passing lane into Leicester’s left wing-back Timothy Castagne, but he just ambles straight towards Soyuncu…



    …which means the defender can easily turn and play a simple ball to Castagne. There’s no United player backing up the initial press…



    …so Castagne can dribble forward into space. Ronaldo now feels obliged to drop back and shut him down, but Castagne simply passes inside to a free midfielder, and Leicester can build from the centre of the pitch. The press was that easy to break.



    In stark contrast, when a Leicester forward started a press, the whole team backed him up. Their first goal, Tielemans’ delicious chip, came when Iheanacho intercepted a David de Gea pass to Harry Maguire. That was an extreme example but it was also typical of Leicester’s approach. Here, when Jamie Vardy moves towards Victor Lindelof, he starts a press that involves five players — everyone on the left half of Leicester’s system…



    …and it’s the fifth man, Soyuncu, who makes the interception as a Bruno Fernandes pass goes astray.



    The shape without the ball just isn’t what you expect of a Premier League side. United’s 4-2-3-1 often looks more like 4-2-4. Here’s one example of them in a midfield block, with Jadon Sancho trying to start a press. They just look easy to play through — so many gaps around individuals.



    A comparison with Leicester’s shape doesn’t quite make sense — they were using 3-4-1-2. But a contrast with Rafa Benitez’s Everton, their previous opponents, does. Here, there’s organisation within the individual lines, and cohesion between them — note how close the defence and midfield are together.



    United’s starting XI is impressive in terms of individuals, but poor in terms of partnerships and balance. In the central attacking duo, Fernandes is now being forced to do more running without possession to compensate for Ronaldo. He’s largely getting through this manfully, but Fernandes is expending a lot of energy and is less able to focus on what happens when the ball comes his way. Considering his sensational performances since signing for United, the side should continue to be based around him. Ronaldo’s signing has inevitably changed the situation, and United’s best player now finds his game compromised.

    They might get away with things if they had a disciplined wide duo to keep the midfield solid. But Sancho is an extremely attack-minded winger, more attacker than midfielder. He’s accustomed to a Dortmund side that tried to press cohesively — he’s still putting himself in those positions rather than helping out United’s midfielders.

    On the other flank, Mason Greenwood is a similarly attacking player. He started as a centre-forward in two of United’s first three games of the season, scoring in both, and that seemed likely to be his primary position this season. Ronaldo’s arrival has inevitably changed that, and while he can still score from wide — his goal here was outstanding — he can’t be expected to suddenly be a Park Ji-sung without the ball.

    The central midfield zone has the same old problems. We’ve known for years that Pogba is poor defensively when playing in a central midfield duo. Solskjaer worked that out, preferred to use him from wide, and he started the season in excellent form there. But now Ronaldo has to play as a striker, which means Greenwood is playing out wide, which means Pogba has been shifted inside again. So United’s central midfield problems stem from Ronaldo.

    “Over the international break we have had a good look to see what has gone wrong lately,” said Solskjaer after yesterday’s defeat. “But we need to look at the whole set-up and balance of the team and maybe something has to give.”

    But it’s difficult to see what the solution is. Solskjaer feels like a Galactico-era Real Madrid manager, compelled to start certain players because of their reputation, and largely in a job because he’s happy to placate them rather than make tough tactical decisions. Omitting Ronaldo or Fernandes feels impossible, he can’t be seen to be wasting the £73 million Sancho, Greenwood deserves to start based on form and Pogba started the season brilliantly. But these five can’t play together. To complicate matters further, Anthony Martial started against Everton and scored United’s only goal, and Marcus Rashford came off the bench this weekend to briefly make it 2-2. Oh, and remember Edinson Cavani?

    This all felt entirely predictable after Ronaldo’s arrival. Whether he should contribute more without possession is debatable, but it seems obvious that his presence has caused a tactical conundrum that Solskjaer might not be able to solve.



    (Sorry Buzz, no pics)
    If we are all only happy when we are really winning in the end, when your race finishes, what life would that be?

    Comment


      Brilliant isn't it. We all thought it.
      Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

      Comment




        It definitely felt like signing Ronaldo was purely to stop him going to City. I reckon all parties could regret this, as Pep would have known for sure how to fit him into their shape.

        Ultimately OGS just isn't good enough tactically to solve these problems. He is playing the classic Ardiles spurs formation with too many attackers. Throw in, as the article points out that the solution involves, most likely, dropping Ronaldo then the predicament becomes clear and again OGS probably doesnt have what it takes. I can see him 'resting' Ronaldo for the game vs us and going for that mega defensive shape he had when he realistically had most of his decent results.

        But he can't rest Ronaldo for all of their games.

        Also do they have enough time to sort these miriad of issues out for Sunday with a CL game in between?
        Modifying post.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
          Brilliant isn't it. We all thought it.
          Once the media get on him he’s a dead man walking and I worry they might go and sign Conte who’d quickly their **** together. Zidane being the other big name manager doesn’t worry me as much - I know he win all the champions leagues but I think he is just an ego massager whereas United need a tactically astute guy

          Comment


            Whoever goes in has to sort out that squad, it was a mess anyway and signing Ronaldo has made it far worse. I cant see that happening until the summer.

            Long term if they were to ditch Ronaldo and Cavani, probably get rid of Martial. Replace them with a top DM. Get someone in to add to the CB options. Sort out a less cavalier attacking strategy.

            Then they could be onto something. I reckon they would be 1.5 seasons to do so.

            The great thing is, their fans don't have the patience. So anyone who comes in has to deliver pretty much instantly.

            Also, would the media be as patient with any other club who had spent £75m on one of the brightest talents in English football? Sancho has been an unmitigated disaster for them so far.

            #glazersout
            Modifying post.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Buzzo View Post


              It definitely felt like signing Ronaldo was purely to stop him going to City. I reckon all parties could regret this, as Pep would have known for sure how to fit him into their shape.

              Ultimately OGS just isn't good enough tactically to solve these problems. He is playing the classic Ardiles spurs formation with too many attackers. Throw in, as the article points out that the solution involves, most likely, dropping Ronaldo then the predicament becomes clear and again OGS probably doesnt have what it takes. I can see him 'resting' Ronaldo for the game vs us and going for that mega defensive shape he had when he realistically had most of his decent results.

              But he can't rest Ronaldo for all of their games.

              Also do they have enough time to sort these miriad of issues out for Sunday with a CL game in between?
              I don't think he would have the balls to drop Ronaldo for our game. It's also a bit of a lose-lose situation for him. Play him (and hopefully play Pogba CM) and we hammer them. Drop him and prepare for an almighty backlash from Ronaldo himself, fans and the media if they lose.

              It's tremendous to watch.
              If we are all only happy when we are really winning in the end, when your race finishes, what life would that be?

              Comment


                They did drop (rest) him as recently as Everton and that didn't work out too well.

                I don't think they'll drop him for us but Sancho and maybe Greenwood won't get a look in as they try and sit a bit deeper. Or basically try something/anything.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by labourRed View Post
                  They did drop (rest) him as recently as Everton and that didn't work out too well.

                  I don't think they'll drop him for us but Sancho and maybe Greenwood won't get a look in as they try and sit a bit deeper. Or basically try something/anything.
                  Greenwood has started every game. Who do you think would take his place?
                  If we are all only happy when we are really winning in the end, when your race finishes, what life would that be?

                  Comment


                    He’ll go classic Ole big game:

                    DDG
                    AWB LINDELOF MAGUIRE SHAW
                    MCTOM FRED
                    BRUNO
                    GREENWOOD POGBA
                    RONALDO

                    He may start Rashford instead of Greenwood but no way Pogba is in a two in midfield

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Irishnev View Post
                      He’ll go classic Ole big game:

                      DDG
                      AWB LINDELOF MAGUIRE SHAW
                      MCTOM FRED
                      BRUNO
                      GREENWOOD POGBA
                      RONALDO

                      He may start Rashford instead of Greenwood but no way Pogba is in a two in midfield
                      Aye, expect that team too.

                      Surely he can't sit back though and play for the draw again? He has to go for it at Old Trafford with the players he has at his disposal.
                      If we are all only happy when we are really winning in the end, when your race finishes, what life would that be?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Buzzo View Post
                        Whoever goes in has to sort out that squad, it was a mess anyway and signing Ronaldo has made it far worse. I cant see that happening until the summer.

                        Long term if they were to ditch Ronaldo and Cavani, probably get rid of Martial. Replace them with a top DM. Get someone in to add to the CB options. Sort out a less cavalier attacking strategy.

                        Then they could be onto something. I reckon they would be 1.5 seasons to do so.

                        The great thing is, their fans don't have the patience. So anyone who comes in has to deliver pretty much instantly.

                        Also, would the media be as patient with any other club who had spent £75m on one of the brightest talents in English football? Sancho has been an unmitigated disaster for them so far.

                        #glazersout
                        For me it's about them getting a system that works for them, Ronaldo and Pogba don't put the hard yards in, Fernandes wants a fairly free role in midfield. Those are all 'luxury' players and I don't think that they can afford to play more than one of them at a time. Personally I would go with Fernandes and sack the other two off. But I don't think that Ole has the stones to stand up to Ronaldo and probably not Pogba.

                        I thought last year that the formation with Rashford on the left, Greenwood on the right and Cavani through the middle was starting to look threatening. With the signing of Sancho I had assumed that they would have been transitioning Greenwood into the central role and playing Sancho wide right. I think if they played that front three with Fernandes and a couple of DM's (Matic, Mctominay, Fred) they'd improve quite a bit. Ronaldo coming in has shot that to ****.

                        I worry that Pogba leaving will actually help them as it's one less luxury player and ego to accommodate.
                        The only gracious way to accept an insult is to ignore it; if you can't ignore it, top it; if you can't top it, laugh at it; if you can't laugh at it, it's probably deserved.

                        Comment


                          Absolutely poggerz going will actually help them.

                          He's potentially one of the most overrated players on the planet.

                          No consistency and unless he's given free reign in an advanced midfield position, generally doesn't have the discipline to play any other position.
                          Y.N.W.A!!!!!!

                          "There are two great teams on Merseyside; Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves." - Bill Shankly

                          Comment


                            Mourinho was bombed out there but I genuinely think that was the time to back the manager. He basically said he wanted a new center back and also that Pogba was a bad apple. He was right. Since then they have spent a load of cash on other players. At least under Mourinho you get the feeling that they would have signed players for the correct position.

                            I think if they kept Mourinho that they'd have got it right by now to be honest. If they gave him the same backing that Ole had.

                            Ole will come out with some bull**** about Klopp having 4 or 5 years to get his team right but the money he has spent is ****in criminal.

                            Also, if Pogba eventually leaves on a free, then Man United will have left him go for £1.5m, signed him back for £90m and then left him go on a free transfer again

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by frank the tank View Post
                              Mourinho was bombed out there but I genuinely think that was the time to back the manager. He basically said he wanted a new center back and also that Pogba was a bad apple. He was right. Since then they have spent a load of cash on other players. At least under Mourinho you get the feeling that they would have signed players for the correct position.

                              I think if they kept Mourinho that they'd have got it right by now to be honest. If they gave him the same backing that Ole had.


                              Ole will come out with some bull**** about Klopp having 4 or 5 years to get his team right but the money he has spent is ****in criminal.

                              Also, if Pogba eventually leaves on a free, then Man United will have left him go for £1.5m, signed him back for £90m and then left him go on a free transfer again
                              Did they not spend £370m in the 2 years he was there?
                              You can even discount Pogba from that and it’s still an absolute fortune.

                              He got 2 centre halfs as well, Bailey and Lindelof.
                              .
                              .
                              .
                              .

                              Comment


                                Mourinho would never have got it right at United. Certainly wouldn't have won the league with them.
                                If we are all only happy when we are really winning in the end, when your race finishes, what life would that be?

                                Comment

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