Manchester United

[Fosterbloke]

The only team that's imploding faster than Utd are Chelsea. You love to see it

[SB]

It's interesting that Sancho hasn't been fined at all. So if he was, say persistently late or did something genuinely disruptive, then the club could have fined him.

No matter what way you disect this, it is such terrible management by Ten Hag. They basically have a young player that is talented who he hasn't been able to get a song out of. That's bad enough but he has actually doubled down and effectively wiped 10s of millions off that assets value.

And just at the same time, their 90m alternative guy went all rapey and has been told to stay the **** away as well. You genuinely couldn't mame this up ha ha. Harchester United don't have a patch on them

I hope Sancho is ok but I’m loving laughing at the club

he certainly didn’t motivate him anyway, haha.

Quite the opposite

I really can’t understand what he was hoping to achieve by calling him out publicly like that. If he thought it would motivate him, he clearly doesn’t know him, based on how Sancho reacted.

If he hadn’t called him out, I’m sure he’d have been back in the squad against Brighton, with Antony away- but ten hag has backed himself into a corner, where he can’t blink first.

But, this is all Joel Glazer’s fault

Sounds like ETH is doing a Mourinho with the he’s not my signing attitude, regardless that they’ve spent big bucks on an asset.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I agree with you 100%, this should be behind closed doors stuff and ETH threw him under a bus. From a football perspective anything that makes United suffer is great but from a human perspective it’s not good for Sancho. I read Dortmund gave him “special” treatment, he had a minder and a mentor within the squad. He also had some issues there but it never got out

The issues he was rumoured to have had were alleged to mental wellness related.


And that is where ETH went wrong imo. Fine to sideline a player for not performing in training or during games, but to stand in front of journalists and say that the player was/is dealing with mental health issues and just lob that in whilst listing reasons the player is ouit of the training squad is not on.

It made it seem like having a mental health issue was one of the problems the oplayer was being disciplined for. Obviously it was (hopefully) not meant that way and was most likely rattled off in a clumsy fashion but the optics are terrible as is the outing of a player who may or may not have wanted it said in public that he was handling some issues.

[Norbs]

Utd have totally failed him

[Kenneth]

I really can’t understand what he was hoping to achieve by calling him out publicly like that. If he thought it would motivate him, he clearly doesn’t know him, based on how Sancho reacted.

If he hadn’t called him out, I’m sure he’d have been back in the squad against Brighton, with Antony away- but ten hag has backed himself into a corner, where he can’t blink first.

But, this is all Joel Glazer’s fault

He obviously wants the player gone. The reports I read over the summer were that the club were approached for loans but turned them down due to wages and who pays what percentage of them. Think the main internet was from Dortmund. utd then insisted on a sale and couldn’t get rid, again, probably because of wages. Whether the club or Sancho were the most unreasonable is anyone’s guess, but it certainly looks like a player who won’t leave due to the money and won’t do his job there either, and a manager who’s choices are not honoured by the club due to financial constraints that don’t actually exist. If a new manager is appointed and they say Maguire and Sancho need to leave, they should not be there two transfer windows later. So yes, their biggest problem is the people making decisions behind the scenes, not their manager, or string of them.

[Buzzo]

Who knows.

Maybe both at fault here. He’s a young lad and they seem to have no process of management and squad building. His undoubted talent is going to waste. But, that’s two seasons in a row where ETH has thrown a player under the bus early season.

The squad they have is all over the place given the management churn - long may it continue.

[Exiled_red]

The issues he was rumoured to have had were alleged to mental wellness related.


And that is where ETH went wrong imo. Fine to sideline a player for not performing in training or during games, but to stand in front of journalists and say that the player was/is dealing with mental health issues and just lob that in whilst listing reasons the player is ouit of the training squad is not on.

It made it seem like having a mental health issue was one of the problems the oplayer was being disciplined for. Obviously it was (hopefully) not meant that way and was most likely rattled off in a clumsy fashion but the optics are terrible as is the outing of a player who may or may not have wanted it said in public that he was handling some issues.

I don't really know much about his situation, supposed mental health issues or what Dortmund did to help him, but I have to say I am amazed that as an Industry football, or at least clubs don't do more to help players. Even putting the personal or human issues aside at looking at it from a business point of view, youhave spent 10's of millions of pounds in transfer fees and millions more in wages, you would surely do whatever it takes to get them to perform?

Sancho's situation was difficult he left the UK as a promising footballer, but relatively unknown, and has come back a few years later an international and supposed superstar, being dropped back into that situation at his age makes it very easy to have difficulties, you would have thought the club would give him a lot of support to ensure that he stays grounded and help him with an issues. But his manager does seem to be of that view and seemingly neither do the high ups in the club

[Charly]

Fergie at least knew how to manage his kids... Didnt he drag Giggs out of a party once (although look how that turned out).

[Irishnev]

Ten Hag’s pressing game working a treat

[ame="https://twitter.com/garbreeninholfc/status/1703503060658532831"]https://twitter.com/garbreeninholfc/status/1703503060658532831[/ame]

[red g]

As he bought all the players the good news is that they will kepp Ten ball bags in a job for a while yet.

[Sus]

Ten Hag’s pressing game working a treat

https://twitter.com/garbreeninholfc/...03060658532831

To be fair, that is some goal from Brighton

[Sus]

I enjoyed this article in The Athletic

Erik ten Hag’s Manchester United are no longer improving
By Carl Anka
Sep 18, 2023

Manchester United are all parts and no sum.

Erik ten Hag received his first boos from the Old Trafford faithful following a disappointing – but not unexpected – 3-1 defeat to Brighton & Hove Albion there on Saturday.

A litany of off-field issues saw the Dutchman move from his preferred 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formations and employ a 4-4-2 diamond topped by Bruno Fernandes and anchored by Casemiro. Christian Eriksen and Scott McTominay were shuttlers on the left and right sides, backed by full-backs Sergio Regulion and Diogo Dalot, who looked to get forward and help a front pairing of Marcus Rashford and Rasmus Hojlund.

The promise of a new shape was fleeting before a goal from United old boy Danny Welbeck in the 20th minute gave way to a(nother) humbling experience for the home crowd, watching their side get taken apart by more vibrant opposition.

“The quality of the players and organisation of Brighton is very high. I don’t know the problems of Manchester United, but I can explain my team,” offered the visitors’ head coach Roberto De Zerbi afterwards.

“We are used to working in our style; we are playing with courage, we defended at Old Trafford man to man all the time and we kept the ball in every situation. In the first half, we suffered a lot with the pressure, but after that we played a great game.”

The suffering De Zerbi describes came from the high-pressing movement Ten Hag has asked from United’s front three.

The opening 15 minutes saw Hojlund, Fernandes and Rashford look to cut out easy passes between Brighton’s centre-backs. De Zerbi countered this, first by asking Lewis Dunk and Jan Paul van Hecke to stand wider during build-up, stretching the angles United’s front two would manage.

The De Zerbi tweak that saw Brighton outwit Ten Hag and Manchester United
Pascal Gross was then asked to drop deeper to collect the ball behind Fernandes, while Joel Veltman pushed higher up to receive the ball behind Rashford and Eriksen.

Rashford – who is not the most diligent presser in his preferred role on the left – was uncomfortable and easily disheartened when his attempts to press as a centre-forward were unsuccessful. It was easy for Brighton to attack the spaces down United’s left and a bad situation was made worse by the continued oddity of Casemiro’s 2023-24 season so far. The 31-year-old Brazilian currently offers little of the defending, pressing and counter-pressing that made him so crucial to his and Ten Hag’s debut season in England a year ago.

De Zerbi’s side ran out two-goal-margin winners on Saturday because they made the correct in-game adjustments to play past United’s first wave of pressure. A starting XI that cost around £17.5million ($21.7m) to put together had outclassed a United one that had cost north of £200m. Brighton’s victory was one for proper coaching and sensible thinking over years of dysfunctional spending and mismanagement. Brighton are successful in their realm of the Premier League because they do the things United do not.

Ten Hag did well last season to clean up the mess of United’s 2021-22 but appears to be reaching the same uncomfortable plateau every one of the club’s managers since Sir Alex Ferguson retired a decade ago has found themselves on.

This is the first time in the Premier League era that United have lost three of their opening five games and, while Ten Hag has addressed some of the frailties that were apparent under predecessor Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and during Ralf Rangnick’s interim spell, it is difficult to say he has the correct support structure in place to mitigate any flaws of his own.

The people who make up the wider United institution were so impressed by the tactical discipline Ten Hag brought to the club after his summer 2022 arrival from leading Dutch side Ajax that he now has a level of oversight and responsibility where he risks being over-encumbered.

The 53-year-old has long been considered a tracksuit manager, best left to focus on working on the training ground and improving players. That so many of Ten Hag’s signings at United have been players he has either previously worked with or his Ajax teams played against suggests he has little time for development now as his energies are being directed elsewhere.

Five matches is a small sample size, but no United player is performing at a higher level than last season.

Key players on the road to February’s Carabao Cup final win appear overburdened and unable to carry out orders to the same level. In his second season at the controls, United’s manager wants to embark on a journey to turn this squad into one that finds power out of transitional chaos, but his team find themselves over-reliant on counter-attacks.

Across his eight years in charge of Go Ahead Eagles, FC Utrecht and Ajax in his homeland, Ten Hag teams were improved by the interactions and complementary abilities of the players assembled. Players would learn through classroom theory and then through training-ground practice.

The pinnacle of his five-season Ajax reign saw players who were sure of the many tactical requirements demanded of them, They could execute the right move at the right moment to a point where it appeared automatic. He is attempting to replicate this work at United, but with a squad hamstrung by its bizarre construction.

Over the years, various parts have been brought to Old Trafford to solve problems in relative immediacy, with little thought as to how things could age.

Part of this is on the manager himself: Ten Hag has now spent more than £330million across three transfer windows, but the squad still has glaring weaknesses. United do not have a deep-lying playmaker or an attacking right-back who makes overlapping runs his specialty. Few of these players can receive the ball comfortably with their back to play, and their best option at centre-forward is a 20-year-old who cannot currently play a full game as he is nursing a back injury.

Ten Hag could not have foreseen every issue that has afflicted United this early on, but the boos at full-time on Saturday are a sign that fans want him to take responsibility and better address what frailties he can. Those present at the weekend also made sure to boo the much bigger problem – the widespread malaise allowed to fester for years under the club’s unpopular ownership by the Glazer family.

Former United players talk about how the shirt “weighs heavy” and how the club exists in a unique spotlight. It is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy to cover for the lack of infrastructure that can be found at other teams. Systems can help accentuate one’s strengths so the good can become great and the great do not risk being burnt out.

“We have to fight back, stick together in this moment,” said Ten Hag in an attempt to rally the troops after the Brighton defeat. “It will pass away. It’s not coming, but we have to work for it and we have to believe in it and then we will turn it (around). We have to analyse this game, see where we have to improve and then we go to the next opponents. It’s a different competition, in Europe; we are looking forward but it is a great opportunity.”

United have again entered a zone where they are far more compelling as a soap opera for outsiders to watch rather than as a serious footballing club for their own fanbase’s eyes.

Some major cast members have changed season on season, but the melodrama goes on.

[SB]

I enjoyed this article in The Athletic

Erik ten Hag’s Manchester United are no longer improving
By Carl Anka
Sep 18, 2023

Manchester United are all parts and no sum.

Erik ten Hag received his first boos from the Old Trafford faithful following a disappointing – but not unexpected – 3-1 defeat to Brighton & Hove Albion there on Saturday.

A litany of off-field issues saw the Dutchman move from his preferred 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 formations and employ a 4-4-2 diamond topped by Bruno Fernandes and anchored by Casemiro. Christian Eriksen and Scott McTominay were shuttlers on the left and right sides, backed by full-backs Sergio Regulion and Diogo Dalot, who looked to get forward and help a front pairing of Marcus Rashford and Rasmus Hojlund.

The promise of a new shape was fleeting before a goal from United old boy Danny Welbeck in the 20th minute gave way to a(nother) humbling experience for the home crowd, watching their side get taken apart by more vibrant opposition.

“The quality of the players and organisation of Brighton is very high. I don’t know the problems of Manchester United, but I can explain my team,” offered the visitors’ head coach Roberto De Zerbi afterwards.

“We are used to working in our style; we are playing with courage, we defended at Old Trafford man to man all the time and we kept the ball in every situation. In the first half, we suffered a lot with the pressure, but after that we played a great game.”

The suffering De Zerbi describes came from the high-pressing movement Ten Hag has asked from United’s front three.

The opening 15 minutes saw Hojlund, Fernandes and Rashford look to cut out easy passes between Brighton’s centre-backs. De Zerbi countered this, first by asking Lewis Dunk and Jan Paul van Hecke to stand wider during build-up, stretching the angles United’s front two would manage.

The De Zerbi tweak that saw Brighton outwit Ten Hag and Manchester United
Pascal Gross was then asked to drop deeper to collect the ball behind Fernandes, while Joel Veltman pushed higher up to receive the ball behind Rashford and Eriksen.

Rashford – who is not the most diligent presser in his preferred role on the left – was uncomfortable and easily disheartened when his attempts to press as a centre-forward were unsuccessful. It was easy for Brighton to attack the spaces down United’s left and a bad situation was made worse by the continued oddity of Casemiro’s 2023-24 season so far. The 31-year-old Brazilian currently offers little of the defending, pressing and counter-pressing that made him so crucial to his and Ten Hag’s debut season in England a year ago.

De Zerbi’s side ran out two-goal-margin winners on Saturday because they made the correct in-game adjustments to play past United’s first wave of pressure. A starting XI that cost around £17.5million ($21.7m) to put together had outclassed a United one that had cost north of £200m. Brighton’s victory was one for proper coaching and sensible thinking over years of dysfunctional spending and mismanagement. Brighton are successful in their realm of the Premier League because they do the things United do not.

Ten Hag did well last season to clean up the mess of United’s 2021-22 but appears to be reaching the same uncomfortable plateau every one of the club’s managers since Sir Alex Ferguson retired a decade ago has found themselves on.

This is the first time in the Premier League era that United have lost three of their opening five games and, while Ten Hag has addressed some of the frailties that were apparent under predecessor Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and during Ralf Rangnick’s interim spell, it is difficult to say he has the correct support structure in place to mitigate any flaws of his own.

The people who make up the wider United institution were so impressed by the tactical discipline Ten Hag brought to the club after his summer 2022 arrival from leading Dutch side Ajax that he now has a level of oversight and responsibility where he risks being over-encumbered.

The 53-year-old has long been considered a tracksuit manager, best left to focus on working on the training ground and improving players. That so many of Ten Hag’s signings at United have been players he has either previously worked with or his Ajax teams played against suggests he has little time for development now as his energies are being directed elsewhere.

Five matches is a small sample size, but no United player is performing at a higher level than last season.

Key players on the road to February’s Carabao Cup final win appear overburdened and unable to carry out orders to the same level. In his second season at the controls, United’s manager wants to embark on a journey to turn this squad into one that finds power out of transitional chaos, but his team find themselves over-reliant on counter-attacks.

Across his eight years in charge of Go Ahead Eagles, FC Utrecht and Ajax in his homeland, Ten Hag teams were improved by the interactions and complementary abilities of the players assembled. Players would learn through classroom theory and then through training-ground practice.

The pinnacle of his five-season Ajax reign saw players who were sure of the many tactical requirements demanded of them, They could execute the right move at the right moment to a point where it appeared automatic. He is attempting to replicate this work at United, but with a squad hamstrung by its bizarre construction.

Over the years, various parts have been brought to Old Trafford to solve problems in relative immediacy, with little thought as to how things could age.

Part of this is on the manager himself: Ten Hag has now spent more than £330million across three transfer windows, but the squad still has glaring weaknesses. United do not have a deep-lying playmaker or an attacking right-back who makes overlapping runs his specialty. Few of these players can receive the ball comfortably with their back to play, and their best option at centre-forward is a 20-year-old who cannot currently play a full game as he is nursing a back injury.

Ten Hag could not have foreseen every issue that has afflicted United this early on, but the boos at full-time on Saturday are a sign that fans want him to take responsibility and better address what frailties he can. Those present at the weekend also made sure to boo the much bigger problem – the widespread malaise allowed to fester for years under the club’s unpopular ownership by the Glazer family.

Former United players talk about how the shirt “weighs heavy” and how the club exists in a unique spotlight. It is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy to cover for the lack of infrastructure that can be found at other teams. Systems can help accentuate one’s strengths so the good can become great and the great do not risk being burnt out.

“We have to fight back, stick together in this moment,” said Ten Hag in an attempt to rally the troops after the Brighton defeat. “It will pass away. It’s not coming, but we have to work for it and we have to believe in it and then we will turn it (around). We have to analyse this game, see where we have to improve and then we go to the next opponents. It’s a different competition, in Europe; we are looking forward but it is a great opportunity.”

United have again entered a zone where they are far more compelling as a soap opera for outsiders to watch rather than as a serious footballing club for their own fanbase’s eyes.

Some major cast members have changed season on season, but the melodrama goes on.

[vlahka]

Erik ten Hag received his first boos from the Old Trafford faithful following a disappointing – but not unexpected – 3-1 defeat to Brighton & Hove Albion there on Saturday.

New shirt on sale

[Fosterbloke]

[ame]https://twitter.com/AlternativeMUFC/status/1703348511025099012[/ame]