Desperation from Utd?

[Alex]

I really don't think you can say he failed in the Champions League. 4 Finals in 20 years or so is impressive. If it was a Liverpool manager who did the same he would have been hailed as a Hero. He has experienced dominance from Ajax, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But Man Utd are still a powerful side on the continent.

F3rguson is one of the greatest Football managers of all time. I hate him, but even I can acknowledge that.

[Resu]

I really don't think you can say he failed in the Champions League. 4 Finals in 20 years or so is impressive. If it was a Liverpool manager who did the same he would have been hailed as a Hero. He has experienced dominance from Ajax, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But Man Utd are still a powerful side on the continent.

F3rguson is one of the greatest Football managers of all time. I hate him, but even I can acknowledge that.

Good post.
Maybe he was lucky with the timing when he started to have success with the Scum, but he took full advantage of it and never looked back.

[the rev leeroy brown]

I really don't think you can say he failed in the Champions League. 4 Finals in 20 years or so is impressive. If it was a Liverpool manager who did the same he would have been hailed as a Hero. He has experienced dominance from Ajax, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona. But Man Utd are still a powerful side on the continent.

F3rguson is one of the greatest Football managers of all time. I hate him, but even I can acknowledge that.

annoyingly so i have to agree. id even have him in top 3

[ChesterDave]

Something very dodgy about this. Rangers level of dodgy. If they are creaming half the share issue cash then it wouldn't surprise me if that guy is getting bunged

[Neil Young]

I think this is an interesting discussion. I think I hold to the weaker form of your argument. For me Drunken bacon face has had a significant impact both in terms of consistent choice of good coaches who have changed how his team have played and keeping players happy. That said I do agree that managerial influence is often overstated.

Do we have figures for the spending power/success correlation? I'm sure that Jonathan Wilson or the Swiss Ramble must have something somewhere.

I remember reading somewhere that the correlations was strongest between wage bill and success. Which I suppose suggests that confidence in long term financing is what is important.

I think I probably hold to the weaker form of the argument too. But it seems people are bending over backwards to appear non-partisan (I've been guilty of it myself in the past) and consequently falling for/promoting one fallacy after another.

Now you mention it, I recall something about a strong correlation between the wage bill and success too.

I think it's safe to assume that Man United have been among the very highest wage payers throughout, and still are. And that must make it easier for F3rguson to "keep players happy". Although I accept that, even to professional footballers, money isn't everything (their egos need massaging and they often need someone to pick up the toys thrown from the pram, etc.) and F3rguson must be doing something right.

I think you make an excellent point about picking and keeping the right staff. Although he has made mistakes even there over the years (cue vague memory of the failure to replace Queiroz...or maybe it was Queiroz, I don't remember but I think he was important in their last CL win). Mistakes though are inevitable. It's fair to say sustained success shows he has some impact on Man United's performance (regression to the mean etc.) but I still believe it's overstated.

And I'll also reiterate the point that this myth about his genius is itself a cause as well as an effect of sustained success. I'd have thought LFC fans might want to do whatever they can to undermine that.

[Alex]

Neil, I think your doing your best to undermine the impact of a manager on the club. I think money has a lot to do with it. But I don't think we would have been who we are today off the field and on it, if it wasn't for Shankly. His ability to galvanize the club and make us a success on the pitch has led to the years of glory we achieved long since he left.

A lot of success is down to a manager. But maybe taking your point, you could extract from it that a good manager is needed for the start of years of success. Then after that, the finances are in place for nearly anyone to be successful given the right basic tactical knowledge. As witnessed by Mancini at Man City. Only thing is that he had the finances without the need for a manager before him.

F3rguson's success maybe should be viewed as at its best during the first 5-10 years of his tenure. He dragged them from not much at all (finishing 21st the season before he took over), to winning the league over and over again.

[Shaggy]

[Shaggy]

I realise making derogatory comments/posts about people's appearance is below the belt and out of order - but I make an exception for this bloke because I absolutely ****ing hate him.

[Lee]

[Chris]

I realise making derogatory comments/posts about people's appearance is below the belt and out of order - but I make an exception for this bloke because I absolutely ****ing hate him.

Yep, he's a despicable, vile, repulsive, old bully and the sooner he's exterminated from the game or life the better it'll be for everyone.

[Shaggy]

[souliv]

Looks like they failed miserably

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-09/manchester-united-raises-233-3-million-pricing-ipo-below-range.html

[Shaggy]

Grant Wahl @GrantWahl
Manchester United stock looks a lot like Facebook stock so far.

[destinydude]

Tip: We should short ManU's stock and make a **** of load of money

[Assassin]

Flmao.