Nicolas Anelka

[baitman]

maybe anelka is trying to reinvent himself as a right winger

[MrMichael]

yeah - apparently the comedian has links to nazi parties or something and he created it to be discrete nazi salute that he could get away with in public.

That's not particularly accurate.

The comedian who invented it describes himself as an anti-zionist rather than an anti-semite. The gesture is essentially a variation of an "up yours" in English, which he originally used in a sketch criticising Israel iirc. The whole thing is quite complicated and more nuanced than it being directly linked to Naziism; that link has come from Jewish groups and people opposed to him while he argues it just to be an anti-establishment thing.

Frankly I think he's not a very pleasant guy at all, but the idea of an "inverted Nazi salute" is ridiculous imo, you could just as easily describe a black power salute as a sideways Nazi salute or something. It is quite possible that the gesture could be deemed offensive to a particular religious group and ultimately unacceptable, but it has nothing directly to do with Nazis really.

Edit - actually the original sketch wasn't about Israel, but French secularism. According to Wiki -

Dieudonné first used the quenelle gesture in his 2005 show named "1905".[4] The first time Dieudonné used the gesture in a political context was for his 2009 European election campaign poster for the "anti-Zionist party",[4] he stated that his intention was "to put a quenelle into Zionism's butt".[5]

Dieudonné described it as "a kind of up yours gesture to the establishment with an in the ass dimension. But it's a quenelle, so it's a bit softer, less violent".[2] However, Jewish leaders, antiracism groups and public officials describe it as an inverted Nazi salute and as an expression of antisemitism.[6]

[dom9]

That's not particularly accurate.

The comedian who invented it describes himself as an anti-zionist rather than an anti-semite. The gesture is essentially a variation of an "up yours" in English, which he originally used in a sketch criticising Israel iirc. The whole thing is quite complicated and more nuanced than it being directly linked to Naziism; that link has come from Jewish groups and people opposed to him while he argues it just to be an anti-establishment thing.

Frankly I think he's not a very pleasant guy at all, but the idea of an "inverted Nazi salute" is ridiculous imo, you could just as easily describe a black power salute as a sideways Nazi salute or something. It is quite possible that the gesture could be deemed offensive to a particular religious group and ultimately unacceptable, but it has nothing directly to do with Nazis really.

Edit - actually the original sketch wasn't about Israel, but French secularism. According to Wiki -

Ah well, I expect the FA will nicely simplify things for us.

[ChesterDave]

3 weeks to decide to charge him and he gets 48 hours to respond. Christ almighty

[EwarWoo]

I don't quite get it. It's anti-Zionist not anti-semetic.

It's not against a racial group, it's a politic statement against a political movement who many believe oppress an ethnic group.

If you like the guy who invented it or not surely it can't be called racist just because?

That being said really it doesn't belong on a football pitch.

[Boogs]

Can someone explain to me why it's considered antisemitic?

Look at your avatar

[MrMichael]

I don't quite get it. It's anti-Zionist not anti-semetic.

It's not against a racial group, it's a politic statement against a political movement who many believe oppress an ethnic group.

If you like the guy who invented it or not surely it can't be called racist just because?

That being said really it doesn't belong on a football pitch.

As far as I understand it, part of the problem is that various people with what could appear to be an anti-semetic outlook have been photographed making the gesture at holocaust memorials and that sort of thing. The line was already rather blurry but in that sort of context it becomes hard to see it as simply an anti-establishment thing I guess.

The fact that apparently it was originally used to represent a dolphins' tail in a joke about them rising up against humankind just confuses things even more. I'm inclined to agree with you about it being a political statement first and foremost, but the line between anti-semetic and anti-Zionist is not necessarily an easy one to distinguish especially when some people who claim to be the latter are reported making statements which definitely qualify as the former, as Dieudonné has.

Totally agree with the last line

[Norbs]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25835984

[MrMichael]

And alternatively, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25837998

****ed if I know tbh, but no way will the FA either. So they'll ban him regardless.

[dom9]

****ed if I know tbh, but no way will the FA either. So they'll ban him regardless.

[Norbs]

And alternatively, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25837998

****ed if I know tbh, but no way will the FA either. So they'll ban him regardless.

The quotation (regarding where the gesture was made) from Roger Cukierman is quite strange. I'm hoping it's a clever way of demeaning the gesture by saying it only has anti-semitic connotations when used in sacred places to Jews. But it could give freedom to these racists to use it more frequently

[Bender]

Telegraph Sport @TelegraphSport 1m
Nicolas Anelka will fight FA charge for 'quenelle' gesture saying he gesture is "not anti-Semitic or racist" Story to follow

[baitman]

there is a good little video from david baddiel, bbcs resident expert on all things jewish

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25835984

"Anelka seemed to be saying, 'no it's not anti-semitic, it's just a gesture in support of my friend the enormous anti-semite'," he said.

baddiel basically summarises that he wasnt aware of the gesture, but he feels anelka's defence of it is bull****. although anelka says the salute isnt racist, he is only doing it to 'support his friend' and the guy he is supporting is widely thought amongst french media to be an overt racist. the salute then seems to be showing support of racist doctrines.

[Mattshark]

I see the world Jewish congress have said that the quenelle isn't anti-Semitic unless it is down at a holocaust monument or similar and agree that it is anti establishment or anti Zionist.

[Scratch]

Not that the FA's "expert" will care.