Fabio Borini

[RedReet]

Not really, Eto'o is top class yeah. Torres and Ba are decentish, but on the whole very poor.

If we're counting Chelsea's three forwards we might as well stick Adebayor, Soldado and Kane in from your much loved Spurs.

Ok, back to this.

‘Top class’ is always going be subjective. If we are talking about genuine top class, I dare say we’d struggle to agree on many clubs that have even 2 top class strikers (bar us of course ).

This discussion was about getting a 3rd striker for us, so we were never going to be talking about the Aguero’s or Ronaldo’s of this world, but more if we could attract a proven quality player in one of the lower brackets or if we have to accept someone of Borini’s quality as nobody good enough will be willing to play second fiddle.

So using your example of Carroll, if we went out and spent £35m on him, of course we would be expecting a ‘top class’ player and one who would be fighting for a first team spot. Because it didn’t pan out that way, doesn’t mean we weren’t in the market for one when we bought him.

Likewise with Chelsea (who I only added as a caveat as it is still debatable), when they signed Torres, they thought they were getting the best striker available and with Ba they signed one of the top scorers in the PL at the time, so they hoped these were top class signings. Mourinho if he has his way, would also have added Rooney or Falcao to the mix, so that would be another top class player as that’s what we’re competing with.

So my take on the discsuuion is can we go out and get a quality (or top class) player who is willing to fight for his place or do we have to accept a lesser player in the hope he grows into the role (Borini)?

Who then Hernandez?

The lad can finish but puts zero work in for the team but does absolutely **** all else. When he's not scoring he's a liability it's like playing with ten men.

In fact I'd rather have Borini than Hernandez

Again, I think you are over emphasizing the top class thing. Hernandez is a proven International scorer with a decent record in the PL. If he became available, there would be plenty of clubs willing to pay a bit of money for him and offer him first team football. So although he may not be considered what you feel is top class, it’s unlikely that we’d be able to tempt a player like him to become our 3rd choice striker.

Now, I could also have got this all wrong. Tripendicular could well have been asking which clubs have 3 genuine top class strikers, in which case my answer is zero.

[Roboklopp]

Am I on website wide ignore?

Never giving no one anymore facts.

Pfft, pfft.

I also seem to be being ignored. Particularly frustrating given my point about both us & Scum having 4 very good strikers at once in the past was extremely relevant to the discussion in hand.

[Roboklopp]

Aye Reet, aye.

[RedReet]

Just like all the people who wanted Joe Allen moved on sharpish when they realised the 22 year we got off Swansea for £15m wasn't Yaya ****in Toure.

We aren't PSG/ City/ Chelsea. We have a budget in terms of both transfer fees and wages. We need to develop young players and we have a manager capable of doing that. He sees something in Borini.

Don't forget the excellent goal he scored at Wembley this year.

Or the 9 in 24 he got for Roma as a 20/21 year old. That's in Seria A where goals are hard to come by- especially for a young player who isn't relying on pace/ power.

And In the Italy squad for Euro 2012.

He's just turned 23 - what were Suarez & Sturridge doing at that age?

Joe Allen had an excellent season for Swansea, so that's not a good comparison. In two PL years, Borini hasn’t shown enough to convince he’s good enough. You can point to his limited highlight reel, but he hasn’t done that enough in his two years since we signed him.

[captainfog]

I think all this talk of how much Rodgers rates Borini is a bit overstated. He looked at him in pre season and thought Aspas was better.

Having said that I'm in the keep Borini camp though.

[RedReet]

Borini is more that good enough to be a back up imo.
He'll average a goal every 3 games or so with us, his movement is streets ahead of anyone else at Sunderland (in fact it was streets ahead of most of our players when he joined)
I can clearly remember Hearts away when he was in several great positions only for the final pass to be absolutely woeful, we're miles better than that now.

With the number and type of chances we create we need a mobile front player, Borini can do that centrally or wide in a number of different systems.

Be madness to have him for 1 year when he was plagued by injuries, then loan him for 1 year where he gets loads of games only to sell him when he's ready to feature.

But if we can get £10m+ for him and put that towards a first team player that can play on the wings and cover in the middle, is that not worth considering?

That's the problem for me, I don't want a back-up player (certainly not one we can get a decent fee for), but one who can challenge for a first team place every week.

Would I pick Borini ahead of SAS, Sterling or Couthino? Nope!

[captainfog]

If we try and sell Borini we won't get 10m for him. Nowhere near that. He's more or less done nothing since we signed him.

[captainfog]

We overpaid for Borini thanks to Shaggy

[RedReet]

If Sunderland stayed up I think we may have had a chance. Even if he didn't go there, if they wanted him it would have drove the price up. If we don't recoup most of what we paid, I'd keep him then.

[The Birdman]

But if we can get £10m+ for him and put that towards a first team player that can play on the wings and cover in the middle, is that not worth considering?

That's the problem for me, I don't want a back-up player (certainly not one we can get a decent fee for), but one who can challenge for a first team place every week.

Would I pick Borini ahead of SAS, Sterling or Couthino? Nope!

Yep definitely worth considering.
Only problem with that is whoever we bring in as the replacement is either going to be not ready or wanting to play with both or instead of 1 of Suarez and Sturridge.

Borini has gone to Sunderland for the season and worked his nuts off every game, a mate of mine goes home and away to every game (from Wiltshire!!) and he says Borini has been phenomenal, never sulked, never complained, been played in 4 or 5 different positions and always worked to the last minute, that type of attitude would suggest he'd happily come back as a squad player.

We're now in the 1 bad apple could spoil the bunch territory and the last thing we need is a new striker or his agent kicking off about not playing enough

[Pablo]

We overpaid for Borini thanks to Shaggy

We can all agree the Borini fiasco was mainly Shaggy's doing

It's why he's still backing him now.

[RedReet]

Yep definitely worth considering.
Only problem with that is whoever we bring in as the replacement is either going to be not ready or wanting to play with both or instead of 1 of Suarez and Sturridge.

Borini has gone to Sunderland for the season and worked his nuts off every game, a mate of mine goes home and away to every game (from Wiltshire!!) and he says Borini has been phenomenal, never sulked, never complained, been played in 4 or 5 different positions and always worked to the last minute, that type of attitude would suggest he'd happily come back as a squad player.

We're now in the 1 bad apple could spoil the bunch territory and the last thing we need is a new striker or his agent kicking off about not playing enough

I don’t see that as a problem. Most forwards in the modern game are comfortable with playing out wide, seeing as most teams prefer 4231, 433 etc meaning there is only room for 1 central striker. Sturridge and Suarez were both bough because they can play out wide and often do, so I don’t see why we can’t target a play of that ilk (easier said than done I know). So I honestly don’t see why any potential target wouldn’t get plenty of games if good enough.

TBF I actually went on the SAFC forums a while and was pleasantly surprised by how highly rated he was there (and that was before the league cup goals), which was why I bumped this thread at the time. Sadly, most times I’ve watched him though, he still flatters to deceive and his stats are disappointing. So, despite what everybody else says, until I see something myself that convinces me he’s good enough, I’ll always be willing to sell at the right price.

Well that is a risk with any signing. We can’t be put off signing better players for fear they might upset team spirit, especially if the scouts are paid to do the background checks to try and minimise the chance of this happening.

[Patricks_Berger]

I'd be willing to spend £10m (not personally, I might need a bank loan) to significantly upgrade our attacking options from the bench. I think we'll need to next year if we're to compete on all fronts. We have a lot more games to play.

In the striker position £10mil gets you another Borini. In fact we were paying more than that for Borini even before you add on the Jen Chang £300k supplementatry charge

I think all this talk of how much Rodgers rates Borini is a bit overstated. He looked at him in pre season and thought Aspas was better.

Having said that I'm in the keep Borini camp though.

The other way of looking at it is that Rodgers kenw Borini needed games this season given stage of development, so he sent him out on loan for the experience, and got Aspas in as cover to sit on the bench.

[Pablo]

In the striker position £10mil gets you another Borini. In fact we were paying more than that for Borini even before you add on the Jen Chang £300k supplementatry charge

We were talking about £10m PLUS the money we'd get for selling Borini and Aspas. So roughly £15-20m.

[Patricks_Berger]

We were talking about £10m PLUS the money we'd get for selling Borini and Aspas. So roughly £15-20m.

Hmm, probably going to be closer to £15m that £20m. But who could we bring in for that to sit on our bench?

Jay Rodriguez might have been a good shout prior to his injury. 15 in 33 for Southampton in the Prem this season.

If we could pinch Lukaku that would be amazing. Offers power which is maybe the one quality missing at the moment, is a young player so willing to fight for his place in the team, full of goals, too good for Everton...