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United steal a march on City with prophetic injury advance

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    United steal a march on City with prophetic injury advance

    Ferguson claims that new partnership and £13m medical centre will tackle club's sicklist

    Manchester United announced a scientific partnership yesterday which it is claimed will enable them to predict which players are prone to injury six to 12 months beforehand and solve injury problems which are among the worst in the Premier League.

    The deal with Toshiba makes United the first club in world football to make a supplier of medical equipment an official partner and it will make the club's new £13m facility opening at Carrington next month the most advanced such medical facility in the world, according to the Japanese firm, with a standard of medical kit usually reserved only for university teaching hospitals.

    Research carried out at the end of last season by the sports-injury website physioroom.com showed that United suffered the worst injury list in the Premier League during the 2011-12 campaign, with the club sustaining 39 significant problems – those lasting for at least two weeks – which amounted to a total 1,681 days lost to injury by Sir Alex Ferguson's squad. Ferguson admitted last month that he had spotted on the training pitch that captain Nemanja Vidic was not 100 per cent, despite returning to action after a knee injury. He broke down again last month and is out until late next month, with the absence of Phil Jones and Chris Smalling also crippling United's defence.

    The United manager yesterday recalled how he had a medical staff of eight, with one physio when he joined United in 1986, compared with 40 staff and five physios now. "There was one ultrasound machine. That was it – and we all fought for it," the manager joked. Ferguson pointed to the pace of the game and, significantly, declared that: "football pitches pose problems with injuries." The game's new Desso pitches are lush on top with their three per cent synthetic-grass fibres but require copious watering to allow some "give.''

    The new medical centre, with which United plan to emulate the physiological and sports science benefits enjoyed by Milan at their world-renowned Milanello complex, puts them in pursuit of the Holy Grail of being able to predict when players are vulnerable to injury. The former Liverpool director of football Damien Comolli, who parted company with the club in April, is among those to have felt that injury prediction is the new frontier in the use of statistical data, or sabermetrics.

    Toshiba believe they can deliver that. They will provide MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) equipment with twice the standard magnetic field measure, allowing Ferguson's medical staff to examine muscle fibres and the most minute ligament tear. Ultrasound equipment will now be available for diagnostic work – a substantial new development in that field – as well as for the traditional therapeutic science. Individual muscle fibres, tenons and fluids – a sign of damage – may all be established through ultrasound images and video, in a field of medical investigation which does not carry the same risk of biological damage that X-rays do.

    Toshiba will also bring an unprecendented level of heart analysis to Carrington, with an Aquilion device which can scan the heart in three dimensions in a microsecond. The heart's movement during the comparatively slow current CT scanning process traditionally allow a less precise picture of a player's heart.

    The ability to undertake medical examinations of players before buying them will also allow greater secrecy to Ferguson, who has never liked the idea of photographers being able to camp outside the private hospitals United have used in Manchester. But it is the ability to examined muscle tissue so microscopically and predicatively which is the major gain for United – even though this partnership has come too late to save the career of Owen Hargreaves – who cost the club £17m and played just 26 times – or to have resolved sooner the back problems which have plagued Rio Ferdinand.

    Ferguson, who is still a moderniser, has long held an almost obsessive interest in the field of medical science. His fascination with orthoptics, for instance, involved putting his players through peripheral vision tests with a Liverpool University scientist in the mid-1990s.

    The specialist fitness coach Raymond Verheijen, who has worked with Wales and Manchester City, said yesterday that injury prediction would be a remarkable development in football, though he suggested that United's injury problems lay on the training pitch. But with Manchester City currently developing the £200m Etihad Campus facility which they believe will be the best in the football world when it opens for the 2014-15 season, Ferguson insisted that his club's partnership "will put us above most clubs in the world."



    Interesting...
    [B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]

    #2
    Toshiba's ultrasound machines are ****ing ace. Don't know enough about the Aquilion and competition for that specific application, but in general Toshiba CTs and MRs don't match up to Siemens and GE. Strikes me as pretty odd to have cross-sectional imaging at a football club anyway, especially CT. How much use would it get? Potential for overuse. Are they really forking out for this as well as radiographers, radiologists etc? I'd be amazed if the cross sectional imaging wasn't far better off done at a private hospital. Unless of course they're going to take on private patients from outside the club and run it as a diagnostic centre for others too.
    Last edited by Red_Polo; 19-10-12, 11:25 AM.
    Like blood on iron

    Comment


      #3
      My guess is that theyre looking into fibre degredation or weakening as the principal means of predicting injuries.

      Sports science is one of my hobbies and this sort of stuff really fascinates me. Do you work in diagnostics.
      [B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]

      Comment


        #4
        Whatever they have or will have medically, eventually Citeh will trump them.

        Comment


          #5
          [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtjf6aXfm_Y"]Dr McCoys Star Trek Medical Scanner Prop - YouTube[/ame]
          .
          Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



          May the Lord bless this post.

          Comment


            #6
            [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZ0QNLa3aI"]Dog Says I Want It - YouTube[/ame]

            Comment


              #7
              .
              Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



              May the Lord bless this post.

              Comment


                #8
                So will we, of this I am very confident.
                Those that hid Anne Frank were breaking the law.
                Those that killed her, were following the law.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by el matador View Post
                  My guess is that theyre looking into fibre degredation or weakening as the principal means of predicting injuries.

                  Sports science is one of my hobbies and this sort of stuff really fascinates me. Do you work in diagnostics.
                  They should employ an astrologer too.
                  Oh I don't know.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B2JLj7ubH0"]Toshiba FST Television - 80s Advert - YouTube[/ame]
                    Oh I don't know.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by el matador View Post
                      My guess is that theyre looking into fibre degredation or weakening as the principal means of predicting injuries.

                      Sports science is one of my hobbies and this sort of stuff really fascinates me. Do you work in diagnostics.
                      Yeah, I'm a vascular scientist, so my day to day is ultrasound. It sounds like they are looking at small/isolated and low grade injuries which may even be completely asymptomatic but could potentially be exacerbated. There's a really nice feature on the newest Toshiba machines which shows you a correlated slice from their cross-sectional imaging as you ultrasound the patient. Epic

                      Toshiba have put a lot into developing ultrasound and caught up GE, outstripping Siemens (bleh) in the process. They're a way off when it comes to MR and CT though as I say, and looking at the data for Aquilion that's no different. Even if it is some pretty amazing technology.
                      Like blood on iron

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Red_Polo View Post
                        Yeah, I'm a vascular scientist, so my day to day is ultrasound.
                        Awesome.
                        .
                        Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.



                        May the Lord bless this post.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          That's ultrasoundasapound for all you Scousers.
                          Like blood on iron

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by dom9 View Post
                            They should employ an astrologer too.
                            most people know that im working on the event cycle theory which tries to predict stuff like this.

                            The most difficult cycle to predict is the injury one but i will be starting some extensive research in the new year on injury prediction. Its ridiculously hard and will probably take around a full 12 months to finish but from initial research (i looked into djibril cisse and gonzalo higuain footballing careers) and the cycles are there.

                            I managed to predict cisse's second broken leg (but completely missed his first) and higuains back problem in december 2010 (i think it was) but couldnt establish exactly what the problem would be.

                            It requires the analysis of around 10 different systems (including astrology).

                            So its interesting to hear that fergie has spent 13m on a trying to prevent injuries and even comolli thought it was the holy grail of sports science.
                            [B]Sir Isaac Newton knew the universal law of karma - any action has its equal and opposite reaction.[B]

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                              #15
                              Who is the coolest dude in the hospital?

                              The ultrasound guy.


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