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    Talking Tactics with Robbie Savage

    An oxymoron if ever there was one.

    Such insight, it really is a revelation.




    In the first of a new weekly BBC Sport column on football tactics, Robbie Savage takes a closer look at Queens Park Rangers' 1-0 defeat by Arsenal on Saturday.

    QPR are without a win this season and lie bottom of the Premier League, having conceded an average of two goals a game so far.

    They were beaten again on Saturday, but only by a late Arsenal goal after Stephane Mbia was sent off.

    Mark Hughes's side have been accused of being poor defensively but in fact their performance at the Emirates was quite the opposite - they were set up perfectly to stop the Gunners but were let down by a moment of madness.

    And there were still enough signs to show there is no need to panic at Loftus Road, despite a poor start to the campaign.

    Resilience that deserved a reward

    QPR knew that, by starting without Theo Walcott or Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Arsenal did not have any natural attacking width.

    Everything was going to come down the middle and they were ready for it. Hughes's game plan was to hold a defensive line on the edge of the 18-yard box and make Arsenal play in the areas where his side were strong.
    Armand Traore (l) and Samba Diakite (r) track Arsenal's Jack Wilshere

    QPR hunted in packs as they looked to deny Arsenal's creative players space

    Samba Diakite was very solid in the centre of the QPR midfield but just as important was the support he got from his team-mates.

    When I played for Hughes at Blackburn we had a decent record against a very strong Arsenal team. We beat them a couple of times and gave them some difficult games. The key to that was the way we tried to limit the opportunities their creative players had on the ball.

    The way Hughes operates when his teams are defending is to use triggers, where you wait for the ball to get into a certain area and then react.

    For example, at Rovers, as soon as Arsenal got over the halfway line, the centre-forward and central midfielders were expected to close the ball down, and the centre-backs pushed up to reduce the amount of space their creative players have to operate in.

    Hughes would make it clear to us that we could not do it on our own. If I went to close Cesc Fabregas down and Tugay did not go with me, I would be out of the game because Arsenal would just pass around me.
    Arsenal winner shows QPR's luck is out

    Arsenal's winner was offside, no question about it. QPR's assistant manager Mark Bowen texted me and said he had asked the officials afterwards what had happened with the goal and the referee said condescendingly 'do you realise Ryan Nelsen was off the pitch and playing Arteta onside'. If you watch the replays, Nelsen was never off the field at any time.

    So what Hughes will have said to his QPR players on Saturday is that they have to hunt for the ball in numbers.

    When Diakite went to close down Santi Cazorla, Esteban Granero backed him up. Adel Taarabt and Shaun Wright-Phillips were working hard defensively and tracking back too.

    Across the midfield they were saying to each other "show them inside" whenever Arsenal had the ball, because that is where all QPR's players were.

    The likes of Cazorla, Jack Wilshere and Aaron Ramsey play intricate football but they are far less effective if you make the middle of the pitch congested, which is what QPR did.

    It was working too, until Mbia's red card. After that, Rangers were not just down to 10 men, they were without a big tall centre-half in the middle of their defence, which was exactly the area they had been dominating.

    By then, Arsenal had brought on Walcott and Andrey Arshavin because they had realised they needed width against a team that was so strong defensively in the central areas. Their goal came from an Arshavin cross.

    Rangers rack up the red cards

    QPR have now had nine players sent off in 2012 but I don't think you can blame their manager for Mbia's ridiculous behaviour.

    When I played for him, Hughes did not have a problem if people got sent off for a tackle but his reaction to red cards like Mbia's was always to come down on the player concerned like a tonne of bricks.

    I understand what people are saying about QPR but individual idiotic moments like that do not mean the whole team is ill-disciplined. A manager just cannot legislate for a player to react like that.

    Hughes certainly is not to blame. He would tell me to go out and make my mark in games but he would never encourage us to go and kick people off the park.

    At Blackburn, we were a physical team but not a dirty one. We had a good work ethic and we played good football - and you could say exactly the same about QPR. We had skilful players like Tugay and David Bentley; they have the likes of Taarabt.

    Why there is still hope for Hughes

    QPR's home game against Reading on Sunday is a huge one but Hughes knows his side are playing well enough to win it.
    QPR boss Mark Hughes

    The difference in that game, as opposed to against Arsenal, is that the onus will be on Rangers to attack.

    I would expect Hughes to set up his team the same way, with a variation on a 4-4-2 formation, but with the likes of Taarabt and Granero being asked to show more of their attacking qualities.

    Bobby Zamora will not be so isolated up front either. Junior Hoilett played off him against Arsenal but whoever is the support striker will be further forward too.

    People might look at QPR's results this season and think the worst but I am not worried when I watch them because they are not just defending well, they are playing good football and also creating chances. They managed a few on the counter-attack against Arsenal. The only thing that they did not get was the right result.

    In football, you get out what you put in and their luck will change soon, I am sure of it.

    Robbie Savage was talking to BBC Sport's Chris Bevan
    He's incapable of even writing it himself.
    Oh I don't know.

    #2
    This reminds me of Andy Townsend's tactics Truck.
    *Except Michael, who died.

    Comment


      #3
      His column in the Mirror isn't worth the page it's printed on, skip past it every single time after I once read him laughing at some fella who'd rang into 606 (clearly a mentallist) who said he'd achieved nothing by saying he had '9 houses, 3 cars and a league cup medal' The massive Welsh divvy.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Lents View Post
        His column in the Mirror isn't worth the page it's printed on, skip past it every single time after I once read him laughing at some fella who'd rang into 606 (clearly a mentallist) who said he'd achieved nothing by saying he had '9 houses, 3 cars and a league cup medal' The massive Welsh divvy.
        You mean there are pages in the Mirror that you don't skip?
        Oh I don't know.

        Comment


          #5
          Hahah, I don't like to break stereotypes and working in construction means I need a paper in the dashboard of the van!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lents View Post
            Hahah, I don't like to break stereotypes and working in construction means I need a paper in the dashboard of the van!
            Oh I don't know.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by dom9 View Post
              An oxymoron if ever there was one.

              Such insight, it really is a revelation.






              He's incapable of even writing it himself.
              He's the worst of a bad bunch of co-commentators at the minute on 5Live - he makes no attempt to consider why a manager might not do whatever his idea of the right thing is. His tedious wailing about zonal marking being the most ****ing irritating example.
              "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
              -- William Blake

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by dww View Post
                He's the worst of a bad bunch of co-commentators at the minute on 5Live - he makes no attempt to consider why a manager might not do whatever his idea of the right thing is. His tedious wailing about zonal marking being the most ****ing irritating example.
                I haven't listened to a game on 5live for years, but this is rapidly becoming a pet hate of mine.

                As you say, these people come to the games pre-armed with their prejudices and at no point do they look to understand what might be happening within games. The game either fits with their preconeptions, or it does not, so approach is obviously wrong.

                It was really insightful reading Rafa's recent summary of his tactics against Barcelona at the Nou Camp when we played them in the CL. I'm not expecting expert summarisers to pick up on every nuance, but I would like them to at least comment on and observe what is going on in front of them.
                Oh I don't know.

                Comment


                  #9
                  MOTD is getting bad for that. Prime example is Shearer on Allen. He doesn't seem to understand there is more than one way of playing. Trouble is, these programs don't last long enough. They have to say whatever they can in 2 minutes. When they do have longer, they fill it with video packages and interviews.
                  *Except Michael, who died.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Shearer is just plain stupid. I mean really thick.

                    I'd for love him to get a manager's job just so that I could watch him **** it up.
                    Oh I don't know.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      FWIW whilst I'm not a big fan of their analysis I don't find MOTD too offensive. I mostly want to watch the highlights and have some unchallenging chat. In that context they run the program fine. On the radio when all you have is the words it is a real issue. It is also a shame that there is no more thoughtful analysis program on TV.
                      "The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
                      -- William Blake

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Alex View Post
                        MOTD is getting bad for that. Prime example is Shearer on Allen. He doesn't seem to understand there is more than one way of playing. Trouble is, these programs don't last long enough. They have to say whatever they can in 2 minutes. When they do have longer, they fill it with video packages and interviews.
                        Yup.

                        The talk between games now is unbearable and just riddled with cliches without offering any tactical insight or logical reasoning.

                        Originally posted by dom9 View Post
                        Shearer is just plain stupid. I mean really thick.

                        I'd for love him to get a manager's job just so that I could watch him **** it up.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The problem is that your average football fan, believes all this tripe so then repeat it ad nauseum.
                          I bloke I worked with, lived in Kent but travelled to Anfield every other week. Was moaning one Monday that he nearly got his head kicked in for loudly slating Rafa from the Kop. Even I, as I've never been lucky enough to go to Anfield, knows that shouting abuse about the current manager is just a no no. He would always moan about not buying Aguero, or whoever and zonal marking. No amount of facts could sway him.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            More words of wisdom as Savage analyses Utd v Arsenal and comes up with the conclusion that Arsenal have the 'Wrong players in the wrong formation'

                            Talking tactics: Where Arsenal went wrong at Manchester United

                            In his new BBC Sport column on football tactics, Robbie Savage takes a closer look at Arsenal's 2-1 defeat by Manchester United.

                            Defensive errors proved costly for the Gunners at Old Trafford on Saturday but that should not mask the fact that their attacking display was the most inept I can remember from an Arsenal team.

                            Arsene Wenger saw his side's limitations horribly exposed, and things were made worse by his tactics and team selection.

                            But the answers to some of Wenger's problems in attack and defence could still lie within his current squad, if he picks players who are more suited to his formation.

                            Wrong players in the wrong formation

                            When I went to Old Trafford as a player, whether it was with Leicester, Birmingham or Blackburn, we always set ourselves up to try to stop United.

                            In training matches where we prepared for the game, and the onslaught we would face, we would sometimes play with eight outfield players against 12 or 13 on the other team.

                            We would be in two banks of four, and they would try to score. We sometimes went 40 or 50 minutes without conceding a goal because, if you are strong in your shape, then you are hard to break down.

                            Arsenal were the complete opposite on Saturday. The main reason for that was their formation. It just did not suit the team that Wenger picked.

                            It is bad enough putting square pegs in round holes but even worse when it plays to the strengths of the opposition, which is what Arsenal did against United.

                            The Gunners lined up in a 4-2-3-1 shape but that often turned into a 4-3-3 with Santi Cazorla dropping deep alongside Mikel Arteta and Jack Wilshere and, in front of them, Aaron Ramsey and Lukas Podolski either side of Olivier Giroud.

                            I knew as soon as I saw United's teamsheet that they would come forward down the flanks, particularly the right. They always do if Antonio Valencia is playing, so Wenger knew what to expect.

                            But, from the start, Andre Santos and Podolski looked totally exposed down Arsenal's left and the decision to combine them there was shown to be a big mistake after less than three minutes.

                            Thomas Vermaelen has been blamed for United's first goal for his hashed clearance but there were plenty of opportunities before then to stop the move.

                            I remember one of my old managers, Mark Hughes, telling us that goals come from consecutive errors - you won't ever eradicate isolated mistakes but you have to ensure you don't keep making them in a row.

                            Hughes would call us in for ProZone analysis after games where we looked at videos of when we had conceded and it would be a case of 'error, error, error - goal'. That was the case if you look at United's first goal on Saturday.

                            The first error came when Giroud let Rio Ferdinand get past him too easily.

                            Then, from Ferdinand's clipped pass, Santos got his positioning wrong when he was unsure whether to close down Valencia near the halfway line and, because Arteta and Podolski had not tracked back down that left flank, Rafael was able to run on to Valencia's flick.

                            Yes, Vermaelen had a shocker to give the ball straight to Robin van Persie but the goal could be traced back two or three stages in play, and goals like that can be stopped.

                            Arsenal's attacks end in cul-de-sacs

                            United did not get a second goal until midway through the second half but they looked completely comfortable throughout. Arsenal had nothing to offer at all.

                            For me, the main reason for that is that when you play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, as Arsenal did, you need your wide-men in midfield and defence to be attack-minded.

                            The best example I can think of was when I was at the Bernabeu to see Real Madrid, with their winger Cristiano Ronaldo and full-back Marcelo coming forward down their left, beat Manchester City in September.

                            But at Old Trafford, apart from a couple of occasions in the second half, Santos was scared stiff to come forward down the left and Sagna was also cautious on the other side of the field because he had Ashley Young to deal with.

                            So there was no overlapping going on when the likes of Podolski and Ramsey got the ball. In addition, that duo and Cazorla were never going to run beyond Giroud.

                            With their formation, Arsenal needed to get the ball up to Giroud, so he can lay it off and then get in the box to get on the end of a cross.

                            That did not happen and Giroud was never going to run in behind defenders himself either, even though his movement is decent.

                            So, whenever Arsenal played the ball up to him, they had nowhere to go, apart from backwards.

                            Pace would bring more penetration

                            The biggest difference between this Arsenal team and the ones I used to face in the Premier League is pace, or lack of it.

                            I still look at the side they had in the late 1990s with the likes of Marc Overmars, Dennis Bergkamp, Emmanuel Petit, Patrick Vieira and Nicolas Anelka as the best team I ever played against.

                            They would keep the ball and keep the ball but then absolutely kill you with the pace they had in the last third of the pitch.

                            On Saturday, they showed they can still keep the ball but there was nothing else. No pace, no incisive passing. Nothing.

                            That made Wenger leaving Theo Walcott out of his starting line-up even harder to understand, especially because Ramsey is not a natural right-sided midfielder.

                            Walcott's pace would have stretched United, and given Giroud somebody to link up with.

                            But I would have played Walcott as a central striker, especially after his hat-trick in midweek against Reading, because of how Ferdinand and Evans have struggled against pace this season.

                            If they had been fit, Kieran Gibbs and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain would also have made a difference down the left against United.

                            Without them, Wenger did not have players who suited his formation and he definitely did not have a team who looked like being title contenders anytime soon.

                            Comment


                              #15


                              Laughable. I only got half way through, but he spoke more about individual mistakes than tactics, and yet again made no effort to understand Wenger's thinking, rather just sermonising based on his own experiences playing for some most limited teams to have graced this league.

                              I'd love to see him managing a team.
                              Oh I don't know.

                              Comment

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