The England Thread

[Irishnev]

The irony when the English fans roll out their German bomber classic….

[baitman]

[Norbs]

You're obsessed

[chadrtc]

Looks like Herr Flick, and probably former SS too. Will help our attack down the right wing,
It won't be 433, but will be a panzer movement.

[maxwellbaxter]

Looks like Herr Flick, and probably former SS too. Will help our attack down the right wing,
It won't be 433, but will be a panzer movement.

[Kenneth]

It’s a complete joke that one of the biggest football nations appoints a non-citizen as manager.

The whole point of international football is that it’s one nation’s best against another’s.

Personally, I don’t give a crap about international football, but for those that like the idea and are enthusiastic about it, you cannot then turn around and say we need the best man for the job irrespective of nationality. There’s a huge logical inconsistency in that position. This can only be resolved by arguing that the manager isn’t really part of the team, which everyone knows is nonsense, they’re a pivotal part of it.

Either international football is a load of small minded nationalistic nonsense or it isn’t. If it isn’t, the England manager should be English and appointing a non-English manager is essentially cheating.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Hopefully a step forward. Time will tell.

Think he will do well enough as the England manager. Tactically he is a good manager and not having to do the day to day stuff that a club manager has to do means it might be more difficult for Tommy to fall out with people.


I quite like Tommy the Tit though. In a calling him a serial killer lookin mofo kind of way of liking him.


For me he is Bizarro to Klopp's Superman (Ubermensch if one wishes to tie a more Germanic slant to things).

Sets up teams in a very similar manner to Klopp, he likes to press in a similar manner, he likes to set up the FBs in similar positions and so on.

Even how his teams trigger their presses is similar to where on the pitch the triggers occur in a Klopp team.

But wheras Klopp does all those things in a very attacking or proactive manner, Bizarro uses almost the same tactics to stifle and to be defensive.

[Deano]

Think he will do well enough as the England manager. Tactically he is a good manager and not having to do the day to day stuff that a club manager has to do means it might be more difficult for Tommy to fall out with people.


I quite like Tommy the Tit though. In a calling him a serial killer lookin mofo kind of way of liking him.


For me he is Bizarro to Klopp's Superman (Ubermensch if one wishes to tie a more Germanic slant to things).

Sets up teams in a very similar manner to Klopp, he likes to press in a similar manner, he likes to set up the FBs in similar positions and so on.

Even how his teams trigger their presses is similar to where on the pitch the triggers occur in a Klopp team.

But wheras Klopp does all those things in a very attacking or proactive manner, Bizarro uses almost the same tactics to stifle and to be defensive.

Agreeing with this - Might just suit him as he isn't in peoples faces day after day.

[EwarWoo]

I couldn't give a **** who what where or why Englands manager is. However if they want success negative football is required.

Look at how long Klopp had our lot playing together before they got the knack of breaking down stubborn defenses. That kind of bonding isn't possible for international teams.

Hence so much negative football on the international stage, it works.

If you want success at the bull**** tournament you need to forget English values and just do the necessary.

[Corndog]

It’s not cheating as it doesn’t break any rules.

It’s 2024, if you’re a mature adult, you should be able to see it isn’t really a big deal where someone comes from if they can do a job.

Is it remarkable that they couldn’t find the right English coach to do the job, seems like it but the one who plays positive football supposedly didn’t want to leave his club.

The English national team should play as closely as possible to how the biggest feeder clubs to it play as there isn’t as much time with the players at international level.

ATM that’s tough as the team is not made up largely of players from a few clubs.

[Exiled_red]

It’s not cheating as it doesn’t break any rules.

It’s 2024, if you’re a mature adult, you should be able to see it isn’t really a big deal where someone comes from if they can do a job.

Is it remarkable that they couldn’t find the right English coach to do the job, seems like it but the one who plays positive football supposedly didn’t want to leave his club.

The English national team should play as closely as possible to how the biggest feeder clubs to it play as there isn’t as much time with the players at international level.

ATM that’s tough as the team is not made up largely of players from a few clubs.

Personally I don't care about international football, I don't give a toss who manages England, they can appoint a foreign coach if they want it's within the rules, and I don't have a problem with foreign coaches taking the job. I think that people are making a big deal of it moreso now than when they appointed Sven because of the mood of the country (post Brexit racism, hostility to foreigners etc), but also because of the fact that he's German and that England see Germany as their great footballing rival (a view which the German's don't really share). I find it amusing that people who were slagging off Southgate are now defending him.

The reason that we don't have any good English managers is that in England we generally appoint people based on their reputations look at the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc just walking into relatively good jobs not on the basis of their skills as a manager/coach but because of who they are. Alot of the top foreign managers haven't got a job on reputation they have gone through the coaching system and learned their trade, developed their own style/philosophy and become good managers that way there are obviously exceptions in both, but IMO if we want better English coaches (for national team or at club level) we need to value people on the basis of their skills as coaches rather than assuming because they were a good player they will automatically be a good coach

[Doc_Piptorious]

It’s not cheating as it doesn’t break any rules.

It’s 2024, if you’re a mature adult, you should be able to see it isn’t really a big deal where someone comes from if they can do a job.

Is it remarkable that they couldn’t find the right English coach to do the job, seems like it but the one who plays positive football supposedly didn’t want to leave his club.

The English national team should play as closely as possible to how the biggest feeder clubs to it play as there isn’t as much time with the players at international level.

ATM that’s tough as the team is not made up largely of players from a few clubs.

Plus you do not see the Daily Mail and various outlets complaining about English teams that do well in the CL or that win the PL and how they are managed by foreign managers and have teams made up mostly of foreigners.

If it taints the national team to potentially win something under a non English manager, then winning the domestic league using a non English manager and non English players should be similarly tainted.

[Corndog]

Personally I don't care about international football, I don't give a toss who manages England, they can appoint a foreign coach if they want it's within the rules, and I don't have a problem with foreign coaches taking the job. I think that people are making a big deal of it moreso now than when they appointed Sven because of the mood of the country (post Brexit racism, hostility to foreigners etc), but also because of the fact that he's German and that England see Germany as their great footballing rival (a view which the German's don't really share). I find it amusing that people who were slagging off Southgate are now defending him.

The reason that we don't have any good English managers is that in England we generally appoint people based on their reputations look at the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc just walking into relatively good jobs not on the basis of their skills as a manager/coach but because of who they are. Alot of the top foreign managers haven't got a job on reputation they have gone through the coaching system and learned their trade, developed their own style/philosophy and become good managers that way there are obviously exceptions in both, but IMO if we want better English coaches (for national team or at club level) we need to value people on the basis of their skills as coaches rather than assuming because they were a good player they will automatically be a good coach

It seems a little chicken-egg to me, not enough of the prem clubs hire English managers. Is that because they aren’t good or simply because of extremely high stakes/competition at the elite level, probably the latter.

Interesting theory with the footballing rivalry, perhaps that is the case but I feel it may be more likely to do with attitudes post brexit but also a post cultural WW2 hangover that exists within modern day English and British culture.

Anecdotally speaking as it’s hard to quantify but it seems to me that the English are a little obsessed with this part of history and that this is what comes to mind for a lot of them first when anything related to Germany comes up. Even thought that was a good 80 or so years ago.

[red g]

Over half oif the CChampionship managers are English but 90% are less than a year in the job and they hire and fire for fun in that league.

When you look at the English Managers out of work and you see Lampard, Potter< Allardye, Curbishley, Pardew, Etc its easy to see how we end up with Tickles.

[Exiled_red]

It seems a little chicken-egg to me, not enough of the prem clubs hire English managers. Is that because they aren’t good or simply because of extremely high stakes/competition at the elite level, probably the latter.

Interesting theory with the footballing rivalry, perhaps that is the case but I feel it may be more likely to do with attitudes post brexit but also a post cultural WW2 hangover that exists within modern day English and British culture.

Anecdotally speaking as it’s hard to quantify but it seems to me that the English are a little obsessed with this part of history and that this is what comes to mind for a lot of them first when anything related to Germany comes up. Even thought that was a good 80 or so years ago.

I think it is largely because he's German that's the issue. Yes there are a shortage of good English managers but I'm not sure it's because of elitism I just think that alot of the sides in UK pick managers on the basis of reputation (as a player rather than ability). We seem to believe that because someone was a great player they will make a great coach whereas very few other countries seem to take that view as far as I can see. There's no way Lampard would have got the Chelsea job based on his record at Derby were it not for his reputation and links to the club. Gerrard too, getting the Rangers job on the back of no experience, was largely down to his reputation as a player. There is this idea that clubs aren't willing to take a chance on upcoming English managers yes the top clubs are generally too smart for that but other clubs are willing to take risks on high profile players particularly if they have links to the club. The decision of Newcastle to appoint Shearer in an attempt to keep them up still baffles me.

Look at the last 3 English managers to win these competitions:
English top flight league: Howard Wilkinson (1992), Howard Kendall (1985 & 1987), Joe Fagan (1984)
FA Cup: Harry Redknapp (2008), Joe Royle (1995), Terry Venables (1991)
League Cup: Steve McClaren (2004), Brian Little (1996), Roy Evans (1995)

You are going back a fair way there, ok there were some great Scottish managers Dalglish and Ferguson who won stuff but there were alot of English managers around but not many have much to show for it.