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**labourRed** · 19-01-17, 11:55 AM

I actually opened this thread with that film in mind. I really need to watch it.

Anyway another story in the media at the moment is the plight of George North. I think around NY i was reading a doctor saying if he was a normal person he'd be told to never play rugby again.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/if-george-north-wants-give-12475652

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/george-north-accuses-media-making-12459762

I do worry about the kid, i think he's about 24. He'll be fine now, but at what price in later life.

Sorry, for deviating from football, but yes - there's clearly legacy issues to address there as well.

**Buzzo** · 19-01-17, 12:02 PM

Agreed. Though Rugby definitely has better rules around head injury now than football (which basically has none) in this instance they appear to have been ignored. I was listening to the Glasgow v. Munster game on Friday and they mentioned in that game that a Munster player had been knocked out and played on (I think the clubs get retrospectively fined if this happens now).

Its a shame with North, because he is supremely talented, but he needs to take a view on what is a short career v. what will be hopefully a long life. And the clubs do need to view the players as people rather than game winning assets.

I watched a short documentary about cases of dementia in Rugby players (in Scotland, though I am sure the issues are UK wide) and again the instances are incredibly high.

*There is a brilliant documentary about Snowboarder Kevin Pearce, who suffered a sever head injury called the Crash Reel.

**labourRed** · 19-01-17, 12:11 PM

I will definitely watch that - cheers for the shout.

It's a tough one, it's easy for folk in cosy offices to make objective decisions based on long-term health but people's love of sport means it's hard to be so black/white on the issue. Which is why GN has been basically told it's up to him.

You don't have to go far back to see the likes of Nick Blackwell getting back in the ring after a coma to show you how hard it is for people to walk away from sport overnight. Even those that ultimately have to retire can have a hard time adjusting to a new way of life.

**Buzzo** · 19-01-17, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by labourRed View Post

I will definitely watch that - cheers for the shout.

It's a tough one, it's easy for folk in cosy offices to make objective decisions based on long-term health but people's love of sport means it's hard to be so black/white on the issue. Which is why GN has been basically told it's up to him.

You don't have to go far back to see the likes of Nick Blackwell getting back in the ring after a coma to show you how hard it is for people to walk away from sport overnight. Even those that ultimately have to retire can have a hard time adjusting to a new way of life.

Agreed, it is a huge issue, and not one easily solved.

With GN, it is a game he excels at, he loves and one which he also makes his living from. Not easy things to turn your back on. But is it one you would risk everything for? Difficult to say.

That documentary covers a lot of this actually, Kevin Pearce was the no1 Snowbarder in the World and his accident occurs in the run in to the Olympics. It is effectively about him coming to terms with his life post crash, and the actuality of his situation v. his desires as an elite sportsman. It is very moving.

**Shaggy** · 19-01-17, 12:45 PM

Aye, it's terrible. A friend of mine's Dad - a Chesterfield FC legend famous for his headed goals - is also suffering in a bad way, with a rare form of dementia called Pick's Disease. It, like all of them, is a heartbreaking story. Football needs to do more about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/29/footballs-dementia-crisis-heartbreaking-encounter-legendary/

Football's dementia crisis: A heartbreaking encounter with legendary Ernie Moss

Jeremy Wilson, deputy football correspondent
29 DECEMBER 2016 • 8:00AM

It did not take long in the company of Dave, a Chesterfield taxi driver, to fully appreciate that we were visiting local royalty. “What brings you here then? Ernie Moss!? Wow. Our greatest player. Record goalscorer. Played 850 professional games. A hero.” Such adulation also remains evident whenever Moss attends a home game. “It takes 15 minutes to get from the car into the ground with people wanting pictures and autographs,” says Sarah, the youngest of his two daughters.

Now 67, Moss has barely aged outwardly since he retired in 1992 and remains instantly recognisable to any self-respecting Spireite. Appearances, though, could hardly be more deceptive. For while there is a big friendly smile and shake of the hand, Moss does not speak. He can no longer articulate more than the very occasional word, which is usually “superb”. He refuses to leave his house unless it is to watch Chesterfield and he spends every day completing – with unerring accuracy – copious numbers of Sudoku puzzles. Christmas provided a change of rhythm only in that there was a large pile of new books.

And yet, while one area of his brain clearly still functions efficiently, others have shut down. He cannot follow a conversation and needs full-time care to be reminded to complete the most routine task, such as eating or cleaning his teeth. He is also one of many former footballers suffering from a degenerative brain condition. Moss has had Pick’s Disease, which is a rare form of dementia, since his late fifties and has already outlived the usual expectancy for what is an irreversible condition. He was a renowned header of the ball and his family are convinced that football is the cause of a devastating condition that, like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and Motor Neurone disease, can be caused by repeated blows to the head. Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) is the umbrella term for those brain conditions that have long been associated with boxers but are also now shockingly evident among other sportsmen.

Football is still yet to facilitate promised research but one medical expert has told The Telegraph that the anecdotal evidence is “frightening”. Of the surviving eight outfield members of the 1966 World Cup team, half are now suffering with Alzheimer’s or some form of memory loss. “It seems almost to be of epidemic proportion,” John Stiles, the son of Nobby and himself a former professional, told The Telegraph.

Dr Willie Stewart, the neuropathologist who diagnosed CTE in both Jeff Astle and Frank Kopel, said that wider answers could have been provided within two years of the 2002 Astle inquest. “And yet football puts its head in the sand and refuses either to help or properly look into this,” says Nikki, Ernie’s eldest daughter. The family have followed football’s sexual abuse scandal and, as a new generation despairs at past inertia, they see a parallel. “The football community is fantastic but the authorities look away when something difficult happens,” says Nikki. “Of course they are two very different issues but you have to wonder if protecting the product of the game has been more important than protecting people. Football is letting down our kids, our dads, our ex-professionals and our current players. I believe people will look back one day and wonder how we have been so slow to react. The link is obvious and, sadly, there is no evidence to assume that current players will be unaffected.”

Jenny winces as she thinks back over Ernie’s career which spanned some 24 years and more matches in English league history than any striker other than Frank Worthington. Also in his sixties, Worthington admitted some “short-term memory impairment” this year but denied his daughter’s claim that he now has Alzheimer’s. “Look around his eyes,” says Jenny, pointing, as Ernie studies another puzzle. “Scars everywhere. I’ve seen him have stitches put in and then come back on during a game. Teeth knocked out. He was also heading the ball every day in training for decades.” The link to football appears even more compelling when you ask the family about other former players. “There are many suffering from brain conditions,” says Jenny. “The Jeff Astle Foundation has been inundated. I can think of five friends of ours who have died in the last two years.” The strong suspicion – which is also shared by the Astle and Kopel families – is that football is “sweeping it under the carpet” out of fear for what they might find. “We feel disgusted,” says Sarah. The families simply want the truth and for some of football’s vast riches to help fund the Astle campaign for care facilities that are appropriate for relatively young former sportsmen. “If you had said to dad that this is what could and probably would happen he would have still played football,” says Sarah. “It was his life; it was all he ever wanted to do. It is not about stopping people but they should have the knowledge to make a choice.”

The family also want to raise awareness among health professionals who, in their experience, can be slow to recognise dementia in younger people and are unaware of any increased risk among footballers. Moss was only formally diagnosed in 2014 even though the family became conscious that something was wrong around 10 years earlier. “When he stopped taking any interest in football, to the point where he wouldn’t watch Match of the Day, I thought, ‘This is not right’,” says Nikki. “When we were younger, he would only ever pick us up on a night out either before or after Match of the Day.”

There were also mood swings and even incidents of road rage that were utterly out of character for a gentle giant of a man who was booked only once and never sent off in his career. “We knew something was wrong,” says Sarah. “We were on holiday and mum said, ‘Would you talk to him?’ I was sat on the sun-lounger and said, ‘Are you feeling alright? We just noticed you forgetting things’. He was willing to see the doctor. Yet I mentioned it when we got home and he said, ‘What are you on about?’ He had no recollection of what had been a lengthy and emotional conversation. I knew then.”

With Ernie telling doctors that he was fine, there were numerous visits before his diagnosis. Pick’s Disease impacts on the front part of the brain and, while Ernie’s mood is again now generally happy with medication, continual decline is inevitable. He cannot remember when and what he has eaten and so, given the chance, he would devour entire packets of sweets, chocolate or his favourite fish and chips without stopping. Car-keys must be hidden for his own safety and yet there are those small parts of his thinking – and routine – that remain intact.

While we are all chatting over a cup of tea, he suddenly breaks off from Sudoku to scan the newspaper and point out that there is football on television that evening. He also particularly now enjoys cartoons. His love for the game has returned and, when he watches Chesterfield, he will motion to head the ball whenever it is in the air. Amazingly, when the family took him to a recent away game at Port Vale and got stuck in traffic, he began pointing to a back-street short-cut to the ground. Moss left Port Vale in 1983.

After a lifetime signing autographs and having his picture taken, he also still happily grants all requests and it is extraordinary to watch him pose with all the natural swagger of a film star for the Telegraph’s photographer. And yet, as the family readily acknowledge, he does not comprehend what is happening around him. Christmas Day was happy for Ernie because he was surrounded by loved ones, good food and that new stack of Sudoku books; but he had no idea what the date was.

When Chesterfield put on ‘Ernie Moss Day’ in their match last year against Port Vale, he had to be virtually pushed out onto the pitch to receive the rapturous appreciation of fans rather than have his usual half-time cup of tea. “He was laughing and smiling but he didn’t grasp that it was for him and it is heart-breaking when fans approach him and he is unable to respond,” says Nikki.

Familiarity is also everything to the extent that Nikki and her husband Stu got married at Chesterfield’s Proact Stadium as it is the one venue outside the house in which he feels comfortable. They want now to be open about his condition for two reasons. First and foremost, they feel responsibility to past, present and future generations of players to ensure action over the “silent scandal” of failed dementia research into former footballers. There is also a desire to let people know locally so that they understand when Ernie is unable to engage as they might expect.

A mixture of laughter, tears and enormous doses of love are what currently sustain Jenny, Nikki and Sarah but there is also fear at what the future might hold. The physical and emotional toll of caring for Ernie is huge and, while meeting this incredibly tight-knit family is both uplifting and inspiring, they also live in solemn resignation at how this tragic journey will end.

“There is no shadow of a doubt that he will end up in care and my biggest worry is that we have got to fund it,” says Jenny, who gave up her job at Morrisons to care full-time for Ernie. “There is no pension from football; he gets nothing.” They then explain how they were subjected to a process that seemed almost to border on cruelty in requiring Ernie to be assessed in a series of unfamiliar environments just to receive a most basic benefit. Ernie and Jenny once dreamed of moving to France when they sold the local ‘Moss and Miller’ sports shop that they ran with former England cricketer Geoff Miller but the daughters are now scared that their mum will soon have to sell what has been the family home since 1979. “We don’t want compensation; we just want to know our dad and footballers like him will be looked after,” says Nikki. “We are so proud of him. He is forever our hero as well.”

Pick’s Disease
What is it?
“Pick’s Disease” or frontotemporal dementia is rare form of dementia, estimated to affect around 16,000 people in the UK.

What are the symptoms?
People with the disease typically experience progressive personality and behaviour changes, then increasing difficulty with speech and language.

What causes it?
Abnormal proteins build up in the front part of the brain, becoming toxic and killing the cells there. It is unknown what causes the build-up, although a family history of the disease seems to play a part.

How is it different to Alzheimer’s?
It is typically diagnosed far earlier than Alzheimer’s, affecting people in their 50s or even younger. Although people with Alzheimer’s also experience behaviour and personality changes, that happens far later in the disease’s progression.

Is there a cure?
There is currently no medication to reverse or slow down the progress of frontotemporal dementia. However, some treatments can alleviate the symptoms.

**Buzzo** · 19-01-17, 06:01 PM

Thats a sad read, and a worrying sign for what my mates Dad has ahead of him.

The signs have apparently been there for a while, my Dad golfs with him and he is a low handicap, but has over the last couple of years started to not recognise which ball he has hit. He couldn't remember where his car was etc, not recognising people he definitely knew, all leading up to the diagnosis.

I've not seen my mate since they found out, seeing him next month to go to a gig though, so will find out how he is with it all...

The recent publicity is fairly timely, but its hard to see how a cash strapped club in Scotland will be able to help, despite the fact that they clearly should.

**Buzzo** · 08-02-17, 11:42 PM

Former Liverpool striker Ian St John has called on football's leaders to look after former professionals who have dementia and Alzheimer's disease.

The 78-year-old ex-Scotland international says several of his old team-mates are affected.

He believes it is as the result of heading heavy footballs in the 1950s and 60s.

"People of our era, the balls we played with were big, heavy things," he told BBC Radio 5 live.

"To lift them up to take a throw-in you'd have to do special training, and the conditions we played in - snow, rain and mud - and we trained with these things as well, every day, heading practice as well.

"Whether this problem of dementia hastens the end of your life or not I don't know, I'm not a medical person - but what I am saying is these were my pals, these were the guys I played with and they have got these problems."

St John believes football as an industry should help ex-pros with care costs and said: "If someone needs special care as a result of their career and their career was football, then football should pay for that."

The Football Association said it was committed to supporting research into degenerative brain disease among former players.

St John's former Liverpool team-mate Geoff Strong, who won the FA Cup in 1965 alongside the Scot, died aged 75 from Alzheimer's in 2013 while last year it was revealed that three members of England's 1966 World Cup squad - Martin Peters, Nobby Stiles and Ray Wilson - have the condition.

Former West Brom striker Jeff Astle died in 2002, aged 59, from brain trauma caused by heading footballs throughout his career.

He was originally diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's disease, but a re-examination of his brain found he had died from chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) - a progressive degeneration caused by repeated head trauma.

St John praised the work that Astle's family have done through the Jeff Astle Foundation, which aims to raise awareness of brain injury in all forms of sport.

But he still believes the Professional Footballers' Association and other football authorities can do more to help former players and the families who are caring for them.

"The game is awash with money, absolutely, so you can't turn round and say it's a finance thing," said St John, who played 336 times for Liverpool, scoring 95 goals.

Last year, the FA said it wanted world governing body Fifa to investigate whether former players have dementia as a consequence of playing the game and added that it took concerns about concussion and head injuries "extremely seriously".

"In 2015 we established an expert panel which led to the publication of the FA concussion guidelines," it said.

"The expert panel further agreed that research is particularly required into the issue of whether degenerative brain disease is more common in ex-footballers.

"The FA is determined to support this research and we have recently agreed with the PFA to jointly fund and support this research as we believe that a collaborative approach will strengthen the credibility and resource available."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38911979

**Buzzo** · 15-02-17, 11:26 AM

Even more coverage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38971750

**Buzzo** · 13-11-17, 12:29 AM

Fascinating documentary on BBC tonight with Alan Shearer looking into the known cases, links and his own possibilities of dementia in football.

Sobering.

**dom9** · 13-11-17, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Buzzo View Post

Fascinating documentary on BBC tonight with Alan Shearer looking into the known cases, links and his own possibilities of dementia in football.

Sobering.

I was interested to watch that but I was put off by Shearer's BBC sport article (well, it was ghost written for him).

**Buzzo** · 13-11-17, 02:27 PM

It is worth watching... Though Shearer is by far the programmes weakest link.

He has some tests to guage his own personal risk of dementia, and seems incredibly nervous through this (justifiably), but then lacks the personality or ability to transfer any of his thoughts and feeling to camera other than in the most banal ways. He then rounds things off despite all of the evidence uncovered by totally bottling it with his last comments, undoing loads of the work done before. He basically concludes that it seems a clear risk, but until there is more evidence he doesn't think anything needs to be done to change the way football is run or coached. Controversial he is not.

He is clearly torn between defending the evidence he has uncovered and the game he loves. He lacks the intelligence to be anything more than a pundit on the subject and though hopefully this will give the subject even more publicity it felt a bit like an opportunity missed. The exact same documentary with a more articulate 90's ex pro (if one exists) would have been far better.

**Kenneth** · 13-11-17, 02:29 PM

It's presented by Alan Shearer, I'll have to pass. Worthy topic though.

**Alex** · 13-11-17, 02:32 PM

Bet it gets a bigger reach than some ex pro who no one remembers. At least he is sticking his neck out to bring some light to the subject here. I didnt learn much that Ive not already seen with regards to NFL and Wrestling. But it is fascinating that its all coming to the surface now and hopefully going forward players will be better protected and given all the knowledge up front.

**Shaggy** · 13-11-17, 02:39 PM

I'm no fan of Shearer but he handled it reasonably well imo and it was a very worthwhile programme.

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Dementia in Football.

Dementia in Football.

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