Rafa 'got his tactics wrong'...

[Shaggy]

I thought Rafa got it wrong with Kuyt's bizarre position out on the left.

I would've played Crouch & Kuyt down the middle, with Gonzalez on the left. Everton were always gonna 'park the bus', and in games like that Bellamy's pace doesn't come into the equation at all. With a team defending their six yard box, there is literally no space for him to run into.

I'm sure Benitez never instructed us to lump it aimlessly at every given opportunity, however. Granted he got some things wrong but you'd like to think the players are intelligent enough to try something different - but none of them were. One aimless punt after another.

[Craig_H]

That's true Shaggy. There was a lack of invention and people werent moving into space, like they should've done, for the player in possession.

Those things arent down to Rafa's tactics.

[Bob]

I thought Rafa got it wrong with Kuyt's bizarre position out on the left.

I would've played Crouch & Kuyt down the middle, with Gonzalez on the left. Everton were always gonna 'park the bus', and in games like that Bellamy's pace doesn't come into the equation at all. With a team defending their six yard box, there is literally no space for him to run into.

I suspect Gonzalez will never make it at Liverpool. He doesn't seem cup out for us i'm afraid... obviously i hope this sentiment is proved wrong.

I'm sure Benitez never instructed us to lump it aimlessly at every given opportunity, however. Granted he got some things wrong but you'd like to think the players are intelligent enough to try something different - but none of them were. One aimless punt after another.

The manager is allowed to shout instructions from the technical area Shaggy.

[Shaggy]

I suspect Gonzalez will never make it at Liverpool. He doesn't seem cup out for us i'm afraid... obviously i hope this sentiment is proved wrong.



The manager is allowed to shout instructions from the technical area Shaggy.

Yeah well Gonzalez is our only option there for now - so he'd have been a better option there than Kuyt, in his bizarre "no mans land" position on the left.

He is allowed and, as you'll have seen, was constantly barking orders out - as he always does. You can guarantee he wasn't shouting "hoof it lads, hoof it!". It's just down to a lack of guile on the parts of our players - not enough intelligent movement off the ball, not enough nous on it.

[redlancer]

I suspect Gonzalez will never make it at Liverpool. He doesn't seem cup out for us i'm afraid... obviously i hope this sentiment is proved wrong.



The manager is allowed to shout instructions from the technical area Shaggy.

Speedy has just come back from injury and if he'd of started and we drew it would all be he aint up for a derby.

Speedy to me will come good, and i recon he'll start against the scum and be used to track Ronaldo at times.

Bellamy got no where with pace and therefore would Speedy of got anymore joy?

I couldn't help think part of our tactics we're to shoot from long range yesterday and once Everton stopped that there wasn't a lot else there. We need a fox in the box for these match's

[tomasjj]

As usual, we get static and lack movement off the ball when teams sit back.
Not enough overlaps on the wing and, sadly, many players stand there waiting for others to do something or make a run.
Pennant, Bellamy and Kuyt were the only ones I felt were offering any movement off the ball yesterday.

[Shaggy]

Bellamy got no where with pace and therefore would Speedy of got anymore joy?

It's a different matter using your pace out wide than it is down the middle. Wingers can still get down the sides and round the back of people, no matter how deep the defensive line is. It's impossible to do that from a centre forward's starting position when the opposition are defending the edge of their own box.

[redlancer]

It's a different matter using your pace out wide than it is down the middle. Wingers can still get down the sides and round the back of people, no matter how deep the defensive line is. It's impossible to do that from a centre forward's starting position when the opposition are defending the edge of their own box.

true, but with 3 strikers on the pitch he was trying the wings now and again, but he got no joy anywhere.
I would of liked Speedy to of been given a go but as said if Bellamy wasn't doing out maybe that's why Rafa didn't think Speedy could.

[Bob]

He is allowed and, as you'll have seen, was constantly barking orders out - as he always does. You can guarantee he wasn't shouting "hoof it lads, hoof it!". It's just down to a lack of guile on the parts of our players - not enough intelligent movement off the ball, not enough nous on it.

I'm well aware of that and that's why i'm frustrated he couldn't berate the way we were playing i.e. change it... it was way too predictable and smacked of desperation/lack of imagination as you said. A manager shouldn't simply dictate the tactics at the start of the game/half-time. A GREAT manager can change the game from the side of the pitch and not be afraid to change things IF they are NOT working.


We really need an out and out play-maker, someone who can beat players in the final third.

We also need some potency in front of goal, especially in these games like this when you are never going to get many chances. We don't have this... Crouch is not the answer... and arguably our most effective finisher was positioned on the left

We also need an outlet wide left (like i said, speedy ain't cut out for it IMO) as we relied too much on Pennant.

[Shaggy]

But we don't have the personnel to unlock the door in games like this. United have got Rooney, Scholes, Ronaldo. Chelsea have got Robben, Joe Cole. Arsenal have got Henry, van Persie, Rosicky, Fabregas. Name one player on that pitch with a bit of craft, a bit of genial guile to open up defences and pick the lock. We don't have any. Maybe Garcia at a push, but he's the only one and obviously wasn't playing yesterday.

It's clear to me we need a 'between the lines' attacking player - a la Aimar in Rafa's spell at Valencia - and someone better and more consistent than Garcia.

Sadly, I don't have any realistic or viable options. Anyone?

[Bob]

But we don't have the personnel to unlock the door in games like this. United have got Rooney, Scholes, Ronaldo. Chelsea have got Robben, Joe Cole. Arsenal have got Henry, van Persie, Rosicky, Fabregas. Name one player on that pitch with a bit of craft, a bit of genial guile to open up defences and pick the lock. We don't have any. Maybe Garcia at a push, but he's the only one and obviously wasn't playing yesterday.

It's clear to me we need a 'between the lines' attacking player - a la Aimar in Rafa's spell at Valencia - and someone better and more consistent than Garcia.

Sadly, I don't have any realistic or viable options. Anyone?

That's exactly why i said....

We really need an out and out play-maker, someone who can beat players in the final third.

[Shaggy]

I was referring to the berating of Benitez for not changing it. It's all very well tinkering with the system mid-game, but he can't all of a sudden turn, say, Jermaine Pennant, into a canny, artful playmaker to break down the 9-0-1 formation facing us.

[alunevans]

I thought Rafa got it wrong with Kuyt's bizarre position out on the left.

I would've played Crouch & Kuyt down the middle, with Gonzalez on the left. Everton were always gonna 'park the bus', and in games like that Bellamy's pace doesn't come into the equation at all. With a team defending their six yard box, there is literally no space for him to run into.

I'm sure Benitez never instructed us to lump it aimlessly at every given opportunity, however. Granted he got some things wrong but you'd like to think the players are intelligent enough to try something different - but none of them were. One aimless punt after another.

Thing is Shaggy, I sit right behind Rafa and I didn't see any urgings to pass the thing about. I do tend to think that he was happy with the way the game was being played. If he wasn't I'm sure he'd have had a word.

[alunevans]

Yeah well Gonzalez is our only option there for now - so he'd have been a better option there than Kuyt, in his bizarre "no mans land" position on the left.

He is allowed and, as you'll have seen, was constantly barking orders out - as he always does. You can guarantee he wasn't shouting "hoof it lads, hoof it!". It's just down to a lack of guile on the parts of our players - not enough intelligent movement off the ball, not enough nous on it.

When he barks his orders it tends to be in terms of positional instructions more than anything else from what I've seen though.

[alunevans]

But we don't have the personnel to unlock the door in games like this. United have got Rooney, Scholes, Ronaldo. Chelsea have got Robben, Joe Cole. Arsenal have got Henry, van Persie, Rosicky, Fabregas. Name one player on that pitch with a bit of craft, a bit of genial guile to open up defences and pick the lock. We don't have any. Maybe Garcia at a push, but he's the only one and obviously wasn't playing yesterday.

It's clear to me we need a 'between the lines' attacking player - a la Aimar in Rafa's spell at Valencia - and someone better and more consistent than Garcia.

Sadly, I don't have any realistic or viable options. Anyone?

I agree that we really need a player who can beat a man and so open things up, but I also think that we need to realise that there are few things harder to defend than a side moving the ball about quickly and moving off the ball once they've given it. Its almost impossible to stop.

A side without the "beat a man" player can still unlock teams by doing that. I'd kind of fear for a "beat a man" player in a team playing the way we did yesterday because it'd be very possible to mark him out the game in the way teams started to do against Macmanaman when he was in his pomp.

I think the team has to be the match winner by keeping the ball moving and running off the ball. Otherwise there is a danger of a "let the superstar win it for us" mentality.