a few inescapable conclusions...

[badpiggy]

if i said these things on koptalk i'd be totally pilloried by muppets saying "you're obviously a scum fan" etc... so i hope anyone who responds to this takes the fact that i'm a die-hard liverpool fan for 27 years into account...

1. my team are in the last 8 of the champions league and are there because they knocked out the holders - ****IN BARCELONA!!!! however, the manner in which we played last night leaves me slightly sad - barcelona as they stand at the moment are a demoralised shadow of their last years incarnation and were there to be taken apart last night by a good team with a willingness to hold onto the ball and terrorise their embarrassingly ineffectual defense. in fact we did this any time we held onto the ball and attacked them. so somebody ****in explain the 2nd half to me. how the **** were we holding on against this team? we shold have trounced them.

2. the two mascots of rafa's liverpool - momo and kuyt. 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration. i love both of them for what the do but if these are the lynchpins of rafa's "mentality", then we face a lot of performances like last night.

3. why did we constanly give tha ball away last night? we broke our collective bollixes winning the ball of these ****in jokers only to constantly put it out of play or give it back to them really cheaply. when we held onto it we looked like we could score at will. but still didn't...

4. ronaldinho was **** last night but was still their biggest threat but he needn't have been. if we had held onto the ball he wouldn't have had any profile whatsoever.

5. xabi was totally anonymous last night in terms of his real abilities. he should have ****in crucified thram in particular with passes that stretch the whole defense. he really wallops his passes so a slow defender should be right down his alley.

6. rafa is an extremely defensively minded coach. last night liverpool respected barcelona's reputation and totally ignored the actual team that faced us on the pitch.

7. there's a strong possibility that we will win another champion's league and the premiership under rafa if we get new players, particularly strikers. when we do none of this post will matter. but we shouldn't delude ourselves that it's going to be done with flair and creativity. we will grind, harass and slog our way to everything we win under rafa.

8. we're in the champion's league quarter finals and all teams will fear us - and rightly so because there are no teams left that have the attacking power to really trouble us - but not in the way teams feared barcelona last year and for that part of me is disappointed - not the part that is a liverpool fan but the part that enjoys football played at it's highest level.

9. i'm totally open to being contradicted/corrected but i'm not interested in replies that go along the lines of "stop pissing on the parade" etc... liverpool fans have always been football fans who respected and expected great football above all else. THAT SHOULD NOT CHANGE.

[Reece]

6. rafa is an extremely defensively minded coach. last night liverpool respected barcelona's reputation and totally ignored the actual team that faced us on the pitch.

Yeah we were really defensive during the first half yesterday.

[Jazzmaster]

I think nerves got to us in the second half. Yes it was difficult to watch, but when we didnt score in the first half, it was bound to happen. In fairness one poor half out of four aint bad, particularly against barcelona.

I agree that xabi is having a shocker of a season. Momo and kuyt, though often fustrating have an admirable workrate which when combined with better players should prove fruitful. Momos passing seems so appalling because he is increasing becoming the player with the ball with no-one beside him looking for it, which should be xabis job.

[Manofthebog]

Some people are never satisfied.

We won over two legs, analysis over.

Enjoy the moment mate.

[tomasjj]

There is a time and a place for flair.
You cannot outflair Barca, but you can put them under pressure and grind them down. They have better offensive footballers than us. We did what we had to do to beat them. I wish we had some of their players, but you have to accept what players you have.

Rafa defensive minded?
To an extent he can be, but it is dependent on the opposition.
I saw us create many clear chances in the first half against one of the worlds best team, even if we had a goal in advantage from the first leg.
Is that defensive minded?

[Rich]

For me, it's the old "crushing machine" mentality. Rafa isn't adverse to playing attractive football, as long as it doesn't leave us expose down the middle and at the back.

Often we'll keep things very tight in the first half and open up in the second, last night because of the circumstances was different, it always happens to team as the time elapses, defenders get deeper, midfield stops pushing on so much, attackers sit deeper.

Again, what last night showed to me is that we are a whisker from being an awesome collective unit - feared through out Europe, and that whisker is the man upfront who can score 8/9 chances out of ten. This guy doesn't even after put the running in, as after last night Kuyt has proved yet again what an astonishing engine he has.

[captainfog]

I partly agree with your post.

For me, I think last night again demonstrated that against the big teams we struggle to turn posession into goals. We battered Barca like we battered Manure at the weekend, and again we failed to score.

It's glaringly obviously we need a winger with spark and a striker who can finish. As I have said on previous posts, when we sign those players we will challenge for major domestic honours.

Last night, just like the weekend was encouraging. This week we have played two of the best teams in the world and played them off the park!

[Fierce]

I think thats a fair post

I think its wrong, but its fair and agreed you shouldn't get slated for it

Football is a game of two halves. This one shouldn't have been, but lets be fair Barcelona remembered how to play football in the second half. I may be in 'the cups half full' frame of mind but we battered them in the first 45. We defended well, gave them NO time on the ball, and broke and countered for 45 minutes

Alonso, in contrast to your view was very very good in the first half. Ok he's not spraying 40 yard passes about, but lets not forget that those passes need a recipient, and whilst Gerrard is relatively quick he spent a lot of time drifting and holding. Riise can run, but he's not that quick and again, he did his defensive job well

Hitting the post twice in the first half is unlucky.

The second half saw Barcelona throw whatever they had at us. And it was only when Guily came on that they looked threatening, but we coped. We defended again incredibly well, and only started to look a tad shaky when they put yet another attacking player on. And come on, we were playing against a back 3, and then Xavi, Iniesta, Deco, Messi, Giuly, Ronaldinho and Gudjonsen
Not sure what else we were supposed to be doing, if not defending!

All in all, I thought we were fantastic

[Slim]

I think thats a fair post

I think its wrong, but its fair and agreed you shouldn't get slated for it

Football is a game of two halves. This one shouldn't have been, but lets be fair Barcelona remembered how to play football in the second half. I may be in 'the cups half full' frame of mind but we battered them in the first 45. We defended well, gave them NO time on the ball, and broke and countered for 45 minutes

Alonso, in contrast to your view was very very good in the first half. Ok he's not spraying 40 yard passes about, but lets not forget that those passes need a recipient, and whilst Gerrard is relatively quick he spent a lot of time drifting and holding. Riise can run, but he's not that quick and again, he did his defensive job well

Hitting the post twice in the first half is unlucky.

The second half saw Barcelona throw whatever they had at us. And it was only when Guily came on that they looked threatening, but we coped. We defended again incredibly well, and only started to look a tad shaky when they put yet another attacking player on. And come on, we were playing against a back 3, and then Xavi, Iniesta, Deco, Messi, Giuly, Ronaldinho and Gudjonsen
Not sure what else we were supposed to be doing, if not defending!

All in all, I thought we were fantastic

Good post Fierce.

[Guest]

Rafa chose to play on the counter attack because we couldn't risk leaving gaps behind for Barca to exploit, that's a choice ... We weren't defensive at all because we poured forward at each occasion.

Rafa is NOT a defensive minded coach but his brilliance is the adaptability of the team because he's instilled such tactical knowledge to our players. We can adapt to any team in the world now and keep an attack minded mindset at the same time. I don't agree that we're defensive as we never was under Rafa.

We should have trounced Barca if we had converted our first half chances and it was the same against Manchester United. There's a fine line between success and failure, but ultimately Rafa is getting it right slowly but surely.

[YNWA_IRE]

Excellent post mate. Like yourself I am over the moon that we got though and our in the quarter finals of the Champions league. However I was very disappointed watching the second half.

Our ball retention was shocking we would work so hard to get it back then when we did we would panic and just hoof it up the field and Barca would start again. We could not string a few passes together and we looked like a team in the FA cup from the 1st division playing the big boys and holding on to a lead for our dear life. I know, I know its Barca you say but feck it I remember a time when we would have passed the likes of them of the pitch at Anfield, I was just shocked at our level of play in the second half. With 25 mins left to play and IMHO Barca there for the taking we take Bellemy off (who was causing problems all night) and switch to a 5 man midfield... very disappointed when that happened but not surprised.

The reason Barca started to dominate is because we could not keep the ball and we invited them on to us. Barca are not half the team they were last year or the year before. We could have... no should have beaten them last night and would have if we played football in the second half rather then using the negative defensive tactic that we employed.

Benetiz has created an extremely hard working, mentally strong, physical side who have a great team spirt and I love Rafa for his manner, his lack of ego and his Liverpool way. However I miss the days when the advise was as simple as pass and move and we were known throughout the world for our wonderful football. For me players like Alonso have regressed since coming to Liverpool because of the way we know play football and that is a sad thing.

YNWA

[Laddsy]

Excellent post mate. Like yourself I am over the moon that we got though and our in the quarter finals of the Champions league. However I was very disappointed watching the second half.

Our ball retention was shocking we would work so hard to get it back then when we did we would panic and just hoof it up the field and Barca would start again. We could not string a few passes together and we looked like a team in the FA cup from the 1st division playing the big boys and holding on to a lead for our dear life. I know, I know its Barca you say but feck it I remember a time when we would have passed the likes of them of the pitch at Anfield, I was just shocked at our level of play in the second half. With 25 mins left to play and IMHO Barca there for the taking we take Bellemy off (who was causing problems all night) and switch to a 5 man midfield... very disappointed when that happened but not surprised.

The reason Barca started to dominate is because we could not keep the ball and we invited them on to us. Barca are not half the team they were last year or the year before. We could have... no should have beaten them last night and would have if we played football in the second half rather then using the negative defensive tactic that we employed.

Benetiz has created an extremely hard working, mentally strong, physical side who have a great team spirt and I love Rafa for his manner, his lack of ego and his Liverpool way. However I miss the days when the advise was as simple as pass and move and we were known throughout the world for our wonderful football. For me players like Alonso have regressed since coming to Liverpool because of the way we know play football and that is a sad thing.

YNWA

Oh my god why the **** cant people just be happy after such a great result. It really ****ing hurts to see posts like this

[Guest]

Oh my god why the **** cant people just be happy after such a great result. It really ****ing hurts to see posts like this

As you say mate. If we had a Robbie type of player, we would have been 3 or 4 nil in the first half and it would have been game over. With the amount of pressing the team does, it's practically impossible to retain the ball for long parts (as Rafa decided to play on the counter so the pressing game had to be ON most of the match as we decided to let them have the ball).

Some of our fans just can't be pleased ... Let's see where Arsenal's fantasy footie will lead them to.

[PTP]

wtf you're obviously a scum fan :evillaugh:

[Mumsafan]

wtf you're obviously a scum fan :evillaugh: