21 points

[Guest]

Out of court settlement.

I agree with you, they're not 21 points better than us.

That was my point all the way.

[Kopite_Colin]

How come we finished one points off them last season ? Fluke ? They are probably better because their attacking players have delivered this season and ours haven't. We had to bed in Pennant, Gonzales, Bellers etc ... By the time we started to play, United were out of sight.

United are on a roll because of their confidence etc ... blah blah.

'FAR FAR better' is the delusional part really mate.

You're putting Pennant, Gonzales, Bellers etc in the same class as Rooney, Giggs, Saha, Scholes and Ronaldo? Sorry mate that's just plain wrong.

[Sir Bob]

Fredo, United are FAR FAR better than us offensively. To say any different is delusional.

They have Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes and Saha, we have...erm Gerrard.

Thats it in a nutshell mate. We have only 1 consistent attacking threat whereas they have 4 or 5. Until we get more quality in the attacking third we will continue to lag behind them. Even if we get the necessary quality in this summer, it will still take at least a season to challenge them & Chelsea as the new signings will take time to settle in.

[Kopite_Colin]

That's why we need to buy in proven experience this summer, not more potential.

Somehow we've got to find the funds to sign the likes of Alves (whom I rate but think is a "time to settle" risk) , Ribery, Klose and Eto'o as a minimum.

[anfieldanfield]

It's been an awful domestic campaign, 21 points off the top is a disgrace.

Hopefully Rafa will get things right in the summer and we'll be a lot closer next season.

[Marshy]

It's been an awful domestic campaign, 21 points off the top is a disgrace.

Hopefully Rafa will get things right in the summer and we'll be a lot closer next season.

It's not really a case of 'Hopefully' it's a case of 'HE HAS TO' get things right next season - by all accounts he'll have some decent money to spend in the summer and next season will be his FOURTH season in charge. I'm no longer accepting the pathetic usual excuse of 'we have to give time for new players to gel' because we use that poor pathetic excuse every ****ing season.

The only thing that's going to stop this season being a total and utter pile of ****e for us is number 6 in Athens - anything less and the boss will be under severe pressure to deliver next season.

[anfieldanfield]

It's not really a case of 'Hopefully' it's a case of 'HE HAS TO' get things right next season - by all accounts he'll have some decent money to spend in the summer and next season will be his FOURTH season in charge. I'm no longer accepting the pathetic usual excuse of 'we have to give time for new players to gel' because we use that poor pathetic excuse every ****ing season.

The only thing that's going to stop this season being a total and utter pile of ****e for us is number 6 in Athens - anything less and the boss will be under severe pressure to deliver next season.

Agreed.

[Red_Polo]

Fredo, every team would say the same. 'We should be x points better off because we should've beaten team x'.

Exactly, and the worse the team the more points and matches they will be able to say it for. If we get ourselves a couple of really top attacking players this summer then next season we will see more games where we snatch victories with a single brilliant move or piece of individual skill, and people will be able to say we were the lucky ones more often.

What has meant we've had such a poor domestic season compared to our expectations has been our incredibly slow start and some seriously apathetic displays rather than bad luck. If we can get back to consistantly having the high levels of organisation, movement, and determination we showed for long periods of last season and add a couple of quality attacking players then next season things will be very different for us. Luck doesn't come into it much for me.

At the same time I can see what people mean when they say Man Utd are not that many points better than us. This season they are yes, but start the season again tomorrow and I don't think we'd be crazy to say we'd finish a lot closer to them than that. They've sustained some great form and deserve to be where they are, but in terms of their ability I think we are a lot closer than the league table suggests.

[Mattshark]

Exactly, and the worse the team the more likely they points they will be able to say it for. If we get ourselves a couple of really top attacking players this summer then next season we will see more games where we snatch victories with a single brilliant move or piece of individual skill, and people will be able to say we were the lucky ones more often.

What has meant we've had such a poor domestic season compared to our expectations has been our incredibly slow start and some seriously apathetic displays rather than bad luck. If we can get back to consistantly having the high levels of organisation, movement, and determination we showed for long periods of last season and add a couple of quality attacking players then next season things will be very different for us. Luck doesn't come into it much for me.

At the same time I can see what people mean when they say Man Utd are not that many points better than us. This season they are yes, but start the season again tomorrow and I don't think we'd be crazy to say we'd finish a lot closer to them than that. They've sustained some great form and deserve to be where they are, but in terms of their ability I think we are a lot closer than the league table suggests.

agreed.

[disco]

Been looking at the Premiership table this morning and we are currently 27 points off the relegation zone and 21 points off from the top ! We should have been at least 18 points better than what we have right now ... It's incredible how much points have been lost when we should have won or to a lesser extent drawn some games.

I've drawn up a list of these games:

Chelsea 0-1 - Dominated possession and created 3 clear cut chances and lost (3 pts)
Bolton 0-2 - Lost because of a bad ref decision and again couldn't convert our chances (3 pts)
Blackburn 1-1 - Again dominated and should have won (2 pts)
Boro 0-0 - Same as above (2 pts)
Pompey 0-0 - Same old story (2 pts)
Blackburn 0-1 - A travesty we didn't win this game (3 pts)
Newcastle 1-2 - Again should have buried them (3 pts)
United 0-1 - Should have won easily (3 pts)
Aston Villa 0-0 - Poor game had plenty of possession and weren't at the races (2 pts)

All in all 23 points lost and I take into account the fact that some would disagree with some of the matches I selected. It's a travesty we are 21 points behind United after finishing 1 point off them last term. These are 9 games when IMO we should have won them all.

Totally agree mate, we've dominated all but two games (Arse and Scum away). Unfortunately, the league table isn't based on 'what ifs' and... the scum have been far too good this year

[dww]

Exactly, and the worse the team the more points and matches they will be able to say it for. If we get ourselves a couple of really top attacking players this summer then next season we will see more games where we snatch victories with a single brilliant move or piece of individual skill, and people will be able to say we were the lucky ones more often.

What has meant we've had such a poor domestic season compared to our expectations has been our incredibly slow start and some seriously apathetic displays rather than bad luck. If we can get back to consistantly having the high levels of organisation, movement, and determination we showed for long periods of last season and add a couple of quality attacking players then next season things will be very different for us. Luck doesn't come into it much for me.

At the same time I can see what people mean when they say Man Utd are not that many points better than us. This season they are yes, but start the season again tomorrow and I don't think we'd be crazy to say we'd finish a lot closer to them than that. They've sustained some great form and deserve to be where they are, but in terms of their ability I think we are a lot closer than the league table suggests.

I'm not sure I really think that what has set united apart from us this season is the fact that when they have played poorly they have still got results. They played completely terribly against ourselves and Fulham yet got 6 points. I don't think that we have the players to do that and the same failings have meant that in games we have played well in we have failed to get enough points. I don't think that the squad we currently have is mentally right or creative enough to close the gap.

The problem is we have got to a stage where we are so much better than most of the league that most teams will set up very defensively against us. We are yet to consistantly find a way to create chances in that situation. I think if we started the season again we would still end up a considerable distance behind United, the precise number of points probably determined as much by luck as skill.

I genuinely think that some players might be able to improve and help us close the gap (notably Pennant and Gonzalez, possibly Kuyt) but they need time and competition. JP and Gonzalez are currently the only alternatives we have to play with creative width.

On a different note while Scholes, Giggs, Rooney and Ronaldo would all enhance our team, I think that Bellamy & Kuyt are comparable if not superior players to Saha. He fits well into their system, but I don't believe he is an exceptional player.

[rushscored4]

We have to face facts that the bar has been raised beyond our capability over the last four seasons. First Arsenal ("The Invincibles"), Chelsea (twice) and now the Mancs have (or will have) won the Premiership with over 90 points. Even last season when we were far more consistent and got 82 points we still only finished third.

Rafa won La Liga in his last season (2003-2004) at Valencia with 77 points from the same number of matches which either proves the Spanish league is far more competitive or the top three/four in England are better than the equivalent in Spain. They lost 7 games that season whereas in England the winners rarely lose more than 3 or 4 and in Arsenal's case the same season they didn't lose any. Last season Barcelona won La Liga with 82 points (the same as us) and 84 the season before that. The other time Valencia won La Liga under Rafa they did so with only 75 points in 2001-2002. Man United already have 77 points with 7 games left to play!

[red g]

We have to face facts that the bar has been raised beyond our capability over the last four seasons. First Arsenal ("The Invincibles"), Chelsea (twice) and now the Mancs have (or will have) won the Premiership with over 90 points. Even last season when we were far more consistent and got 82 points we still only finished third.

Rafa won La Liga in his last season (2003-2004) at Valencia with 77 points from the same number of matches which either proves the Spanish league is far more competitive or the top three/four in England are better than the equivalent in Spain. They lost 7 games that season whereas in England the winners rarely lose more than 3 or 4 and in Arsenal's case the same season they didn't lose any. Last season Barcelona won La Liga with 82 points (the same as us) and 84 the season before that. The other time Valencia won La Liga under Rafa they did so with only 75 points in 2001-2002. Man United already have 77 points with 7 games left to play!

i really thought this year would be different and the team winning the league would lose 6/7 games. its that consistency word and i do think we give teams to much respect....perhaps thats because Rafa doesnt truly believe in the team ...YET. something that with a couple of world class players coming in may change.