Style vs. Organisation

[Rashid]

There have been a lot of rumblings of late about the style of play of Liverpool, how AC Milan represent all that is good about the game and how we represent "sh*t on a stick". Sorry but I found that extremely funny as if Liverpool were not so direct I'd probably laugh at the likes of Bolton and Chelsea and their playing style.

However watching today's game had me thinking (for the first time) how isn't it really odd how Manchester United seem to play rubbish against the top sides? Their record this season against the top sides is won 2 (against Liverpool), lost 2 and drew 2 (mid table form). In Europe they lost to the first decent team they met and in the FA Cup Chelsea beat them. I heard United fans crying on the radio today about how "Chelsea ruined the game" when they should be looking at their own team's problems in beating top sides.

Looking at the top sides though, Arsenal have a soft centre but that is down to them selling Vieira and Campbell and having a young side, Chelsea are strong all over the pitch and have a magnificent player in Essien who epitomises their fighting spirit and direct style, Liverpool are a very organised side who don't concede and rely on a direct style, and Manchester United have an attacking team who relies on 4-5 excellent attacking players to win them games although their defence has been excellent this season in the league and so it should, it cost about £50M to assemble.

What does this all tell us?

• You never win anything with kids
• Even taking Chelsea into account it is mainly attacking teams that have won the league these past 17 years. (Chelsea did score a lot of goals in their first league title win mind)
• In Eurupe unless you have magnificent attacking teams containing the Zidane's and Ronaldhino's it is mainly the pragmatic teams which win European Cups.
• Manchester United hammer teams they are better than, and struggle against teams who are equals or better than them.
• Liverpool regularly beat teams we are better than and often lose to ones we are not as good as.

When you look at the games Chelsea and Liverpool play no matter who the opposition they tend to play the same, often with one up front, 'controlling the game' (how I hate that phrase) and waiting for an opening. Chelsea nearly always manage to get that elusive goal whereas we often struggle due to a lack of quality in the final 3rd.

So what next? I guess we will buy top quality in the summer which will make us more into Chelsea than Manchester United, Machester United will continue to hammer the sh*t teams and score lots of goals and Arsenal might do something if the kids grow up and Wenger stays.

So which is it to be style or organisation? Or can we have both? Or do we become Manchester United in the Premiership and back to the 2004-2007 Liverpool in Europe? Exciting times ahead seeing how Rafa transforms us with a bit of cash... I strongly feel he is more Mourinho in style than Ferguson though.

What do I wish? I wish we became the new Valencia, passing, moving, defending, attacking and scoring goals - as a team - playing breathtaking football at times and not afraid to go to places away from home and win comfortably.

I just wish Rafa had us play just a tad more expansive.

[Craig_H]

With players like Cole, Robben, Lampard, Ballack, SWP, Drogba etc, Chelsea COULD have style and organisation, but it's down to the manager's preferred style.

[Rashid]

With players like Cole, Robben, Lampard, Ballack, SWP, Drogba etc, Chelsea COULD have style and organisation, but it's down to the manager's preferred style.

Agree and next season with the likes of Gerrard, Kewell, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres, Alvez etc we should have style and organisation too - let's wait and see how it pans out hey mate? It will be interesting to see, and I am well looking forward to it. My guess is we will be more Chelsea than Manchester United in style.

[Craig_H]

Yeah, but again, that'll be down to Rafa's preference.

However, to truly play more like MUFC, we need wingers more like Ronaldo and less like Ronald Regan.

[Johnny]

Agree and next season with the likes of Gerrard, Kewell, Alonso, Kuyt, Torres, Alvez etc we should have style and organisation too - let's wait and see how it pans out hey mate? It will be interesting to see, and I am well looking forward to it. My guess is we will be more Chelsea than Manchester United in style.

don`t forget Tevez!!!!

[Rashid]

Yeah, but again, that'll be down to Rafa's preference.

However, to truly play more like MUFC, we need wingers more like Ronaldo and less like Ronald Regan.

Agreed, so we need a Quaresma more than we need an Alves then? They are very different in style, Alvez is direct, isn't a dribber but a good attacking defender. I'd prefer an attacking midfielder though. The whole Alves for right midfield sort of proves the way Rafa thinks, an attacking player who can defend - but he won't play him right back but at right midfield. Looking back at Mark Gonzalez career, he has also played at left back, Antonia Nunez has played quite a lot for Madrid reserves and youth team at right back.. Kuyt regularly played in midfield for Holland and for us plays much deeper than he did at his old club- the list goes on.

I just wonder how we would play if we got as you the Cristiano Ronaldo's of this world at the risk of slightly less defensive solidity? - although United have this season in the league at least conceded very few goals.

[badpiggy]

I just wish Rafa had us play just a tad more expansive.[/QUOTE]

unacceptable defeatism during champion's league final week. what if one of the poor players reads that or god forbid rafa himself - thw whole ****in thing will fall apart and we'll turn into a more expensive version of bolton. oh wait....

seriously though i think you've hit the nail on the head. rafa and mourinho were forged in the same football managing furnace. both rate industry and caution above flair and attacking dominance. and i guess sometimes they're right to take this approach. it's certainly filling their trophy cabinets. i never really saw valencia so i'm unaware of them as an exciting team. saw the uefa cup final they won and the were unexciting to watch in that match but i guess that's finals for you...

i think that sometimes we do play very exciting football in bursts - really fast from end to end but we never really seem to go for the jugular for prolonged stretches. or maybe we do and we just don't have it in the final third to destroy teams. never seems to be too many red shirts haring into the box though...

i dunno - maybe there's a level of complexity to rafa's approach that can be quite hard for the layman like myself to understand.

[Rashid]

I just wish Rafa had us play just a tad more expansive.

Both Rafa and Jose start games "protecting what they have", the imperative is "not to lose", and then gradually wear the opposition down until they tire. This explains why in the 2nd half we always come alive. United try and destroy teams in the first half hoping to get a lead - the contrasts in style are striking but look at Rafa and Jose - they have the more trophies these past few years.

As I said, great players in the summer will make us more like Chelsea than Manchester United. I am sure of that.

[Tom]

We'll never play an expansive attacking game under rafa - unless he feels the opposition are vunurable to that kind of approach. Do I care? No, as long as he gets the results.

[Rashid]

We'll never play an expansive attacking game under rafa - unless he feels the opposition are vunurable to that kind of approach. Do I care? No, as long as he gets the results.

Agreed, and I'd prefer trophies too but sometimes it would be nice if we imposed ourselves more and stopped worrying so much about the opposition.

[badpiggy]

Agreed, and I'd prefer trophies too but sometimes it would be nice if we imposed ourselves more and stopped worrying so much about the opposition.

agreed - i think a prime example of this was champion's league against barcelona. we should have continued to attack them for as long as was humanly possible or until we scored which we would have if we didn't decide to give them the ball for most of the second half. the plan for the game got in the way of what actually faced us that night. i don't care what anyone says - we were very lucky that night when we should have ran away with the game.

there's a kind of rigidity in thinking there sometimes - plan for what a team are going to be like and stick to that plan even if they aren't playing that way on a particular day/night. seems to work a lot of the time in terms of creating a particular defensive mentality but can be a bit frustrating to watch and can make ****e teams seem threatening.

[friedk]

I think his aim is to mould a team like this:

1989 - European Cup Winner

AC Milan (trainer Arrigo Sacchi):
Giovanni Galli; Mauro Tassotti, Alessandro Costacurta (74' Filippo Galli), Franco Baresi(c), Paolo Maldini; Angelo Colombo, Frank Rijkaard, Carlo Ancelotti, Roberto Donadoni; Ruud Gullit (60' Pietro Paolo Virdis), Marco van Basten

[WILF]

I quite understand where people are coming from with their comments, we are not the most entertaining team to watch.

Under Uncle Roy we played some magnificent, open attacking football, and won very little.

If we could combine Rafa's solidity, professionalism , work ethic with Roy's flair and joie de vivre it would be fantastic.

Is it possible??
I don't know , but next season should see a step in the right direction with more/ better attacking players brought in

[lfcruleus]

I quite understand where people are coming from with their comments, we are not the most entertaining team to watch.

Under Uncle Roy we played some magnificent, open attacking football, and won very little.

If we could combine Rafa's solidity, professionalism , work ethic with Roy's flair and joie de vivre it would be fantastic.

Is it possible??
I don't know , but next season should see a step in the right direction with more/ better attacking players brought in

Personally i wouldnt swap possibly 2 CL and 1 FA cup in 3 years for one league cup in 5-6 years. Entertainment is overrated in comparison to braggin rights over the mancs and blue****e.

[Kopite_Colin]

Our style

Lots has been said about our style (or lack of it), and many comparisons to Scum have been made this season.

However, with the purchase of Hargreaves for Utd, I don't think we have anything to fear.

Let's be honest, Ronaldo has carried them this season - he's been the real difference. All this fawning over Scholes, Giggs and Rooney is just plain "sh*t on a stick".

Scholes is completeely overrated imho. A central midfielder who can't tackle, can't head and can't run. A player without pace, so they couldn't play him up front (As they found out), so they had to find a place in CM for him. A player who can pass, and shoot. He's a rich man's Danny Murphy. Give it another 12 months and his legs will have gone (if they haven't already).
If they think Carrick, Hargreaves and Fletcher are a title-winning central midfield when Giggs and Scholes have hung up their boots, they're even more deluded than I thought they were.

Compare that to:

SG, Xabi, Masher & Momo
Lampard, Ballack, Essien, Mikel (& Makalele)
Fabregas, Gilberto, Rosicky/Denilson & A N OTHER (TBD)

Unless they buy another world class CMer to replace Scholes I can see them struggling to match the other 3 in CM.

The wide players are a different matter.

Ronaldo, Giggs, Park, Richardson
Kewell, Gonzales, Zenden, Pennant, (Gerrard)
Wright-Philips, Cole (J), Robben, Kalou / Geremi
Hleb, Van Persie, Rosicky, Lungberg, (Reyes)

Ronaldo and Giggs give them perfect balance and pace, although Giggs isn't anywhere near what he was. Park & Richardson...welll

None of the top 4 have class wide replacements for the 1st 11. All will be looking to strengthen there, which will make it tough to buy what we need.

But in my view over the next 2-3 years (with Rafa having the funds available to be able to buy the attcking players he wants for the first time this summer)we have nothing to fear. We need 2 goalscoring strikers, 2 1st 11 standard wingers, a CB and maybe a LB.

We're on the verge of a new era. Let's prove by winning No.6. but more importantly let's have a real shot at No.19 next year.