internet posters/other fans and rafa

[Kopite_Colin]

People may criticise Rafa for his tactics last Wednesday - it's called having 20-20 hindsight ! We dominated the first half and let's face it, should have won. The idea of having two wingers and Gerrard making thrusting runs, was to take advantage of a tiring, ageing Milan back line. If we had a goalpoacher who would have been in the right place to take advantage of Dida's parry from Pennant's shot, we would have been 1-0 up. And I don't speak to many fans who don't believe that had Gerrard scored in the second half to make it 1-1, we would have gone on to win.

In other words, if we had won (which we could easily have done), everyone would hail Rafa's continued tactical genius.

No. it's not hindsight, I argued for it (on here beforehand) and also as soon as I saw the teamsheet for the match. We started with the right shape but the wrong players. And the fact we created few real chances and only scored in the 89th minute supports that. The whole game was completely symptomatic of our whole season..control the game, loads of possession, but no support in the box, and no cutting edge when it matters.

[Michael]

People may criticise Rafa for his tactics last Wednesday - it's called having 20-20 hindsight ! We dominated the first half and let's face it, should have won. The idea of having two wingers and Gerrard making thrusting runs, was to take advantage of a tiring, ageing Milan back line. If we had a goalpoacher who would have been in the right place to take advantage of Dida's parry from Pennant's shot, we would have been 1-0 up. And I don't speak to many fans who don't believe that had Gerrard scored in the second half to make it 1-1, we would have gone on to win.

In other words, if we had won (which we could easily have done), everyone would hail Rafa's continued tactical genius.

Spot on. We pinned Milan down which is no mean task. We were just missing THAT player.

Kaka did two things all game.... won the free kick, and played the pass for the goal.

That is a THAT player which we needed/need

[lfcruleus]

there's sometimes seems to be group of about 10-12 posters who only respond to each others posts in any sort of thought out way so is this intimidating for those who don't post at all?

Look there is an element of this on the site but its only because those people post more so develop characteristics to thier posts which develop a theme. If you check out the "what are you famous for on EST" thread in the Chat section you'll see what i mean.

As for Rafa bashing, I am pissed off with his selections more than i care to remember but he is the man in the job, and he isnt doing too badly, Do I think he can win us the league? If I'm honest no i dont but i think as a club we are a long way off winning it and it isnt only about the players and manager. Us as fans making it such a big thing that we havent won it for years doesnt help its like an obsession. United won it last year as thier players played with the freedom of no pressure early in the season as noone expected them to win it including thier fans. Our players know we need to win it to exorcise a ghost.
Who knows why he played Zenden on Weds, although there werent many options, but the decision to play Mascher and Xabi was spot on as it stopped Kaka playing.
Crouch or Bellamy should have played with Stevie on the right but Pennant did well i thought.
Open criticism of Rafa is fine as far as im concerned as long as it is constructive.

[Red_Polo]

The more people get to know one another the more they are going to converse, nothing wrong with that. It's no more intimidating than going to a pub away from where you live, where everyone knows everyone but you. You can still introduce yourself and converse with them unless you're wet behind the ears.

Rafa has done my head in this season. I think he's had a few basic failures and they've really really got to me. Still have a great deal of faith in him though.

[wavydavy]

I think the current situation has been hyped up beyond belief. Some of the headlines have been utter bollocks. I've seen Rafa quoted in certain papers saying this or that and, from listening to him in past interviews, I simply don't believe he's said it. He said in the interview something like "let us be clear I don't have a problem with the owners". How can a newspaper turn that into "cough up or I go".
The season is barely over and hardly anyone's spent a bean. Spurs-Bale. Chelsea-Sidwell (wow!) and MU are about to tie up a deal that's virtually been done for a year. This is the press mischief making cos they've got **** all else to write about. From what I see Benitez is in constant contact with G&H. They've said they'll back him so we've no real reason to doubt them AND the Spanish season has two weeks left to run which let's face it is where our likely targets are going to be.
I think when he spoke to the press he was talking generally about how quickly you need to move these days and I don't think it was a veiled threat or a swipe at the other two (three?). And, as I've said before there's the small matter of spending £8M on a brazilian 20 yr old. Something he could have only dreamt of 12 months ago. The yanks weren't slow to finance that deal were they? Call me naive if you like but I ain't worried in the slightest. I'm sure he get the backing to get who he wants and if he's left with his 2nd and 3rd choices this summer it may well be for reasons other than money alone.

[El Jefecito]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/liverpool/article1845157.ece

Read that article, Rafa is quoted as saying much more than you've mentioned. These are direct quotes from a reputable (probably the most reputable) source.

Just 'cos you close your eyes aint gonna make it go away.

[wavydavy]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle1845157.ece

Read that article, Rafa is quoted as saying much more than you've mentioned. These are direct quotes from a reputable (probably the most reputable) source.

Just 'cos you close your eyes aint gonna make it go away.

I don't see much more. The fact that it's quoted by the Times means **** all. Doesn't Samuels write for them? It's the use of phrases like "GLOWERED Benitez". When did someone last glower at you? It's sexing up what ain't there. He say he needs FG today. Pick up a ****ing phone or a video phone. This is 2007.
As for being concerned over "the Untouchables" and their new contracts. If they can't wait a while to get their money put up from 3 or 4 million a year to 5 and 6 million a year then they can **** right off in my book. We've been down that road before. Even if it had all been said it would still depend how you, as a reader, interpret it.

[bazza76]

The reason I think why more people understand him on forums than off them is, well because they have read more about him, its been debated and debated and debated at some length to Rafa's strengths and weaknessess. I dont for a second think we are a blind faith brigade and Rafa can do no wrong.
I like to think, personally, I have a reasonable understanding of Rafa's tactics and what he hopes to acheive with his squad, and his reasoning behind dropping some players when others are screaming at him to play them.
I am not going to slate a man who is possibly the most want in Europe, and for a very valid reason, he is tactically THE best manager in Europe and possibly the world. Whatever club has Rafa as their manager is guarinteed 110% from him in his role, no manager in Europe as far as I can see, or that I know of, works as hard as Rafa and pays such attention to the small details.
I have talked to other LFC fans who do not go on the internet to talk, and to be honest, without trying to sound big headed, most of them, do not know what they are talking about and may aswell be the average football supporter when talking about Rafa, such is his complexity as a manager, even the pundits like Gray :whatever: didn't know how to describe Rafa and his methods and probably still doesn't. They all seem to be of the opinion that you have one style of play, be it quick pass and move game, or individual brilliance or whatever. Fact remains, Rafa is all about employing every possible tactic he can possibly to win a game, be it long balls, short passes, wing play, shhoting from distance all while playing a big pressure game with a team largely of players over 6 foot tall. He will use every possible tactic or bit of information that he possibly can. When it came to Istnabul, Jersey Dudek had seen video after video of every spot kick taker in the Milan team, he knew their habbits he knew what to look out for. That is just Rafa.
He is not above criticism, as nobody is perfect, he does make some mstakes at times, which some people do jump on in here after a loss or a draw, like Athens, Crouch not starting etc. He had a very valid reason for not starting him though, if you look at it, we were the better team in the first half, conceeded an unlucky goal to conceed. Kuyt was part of the effort that made Milan look very ordinary in a way that Crouch would not have been able. For example, Milan played a higher line up the pitch in the first half in Athens, because they hadnt scored, Crouch as not got good pace or the work ethic of Kuyt or the allround game. That is why Kuyt started. We needed bodies in midfield to keep Milan under wraps, hence no other striker alongside Kuyt. His tactics worked in Athens, what cost us the game was lack of quality in some attacking departments and conceeding the first half goal against the run of play.

[Morph]

If they can't wait a while to get their money put up from 3 or 4 million a year to 5 and 6 million a year then they can **** right off in my book. We've been down that road before. Even if it had all been said it would still depend how you, as a reader, interpret it.

This bit here tho, it's not about sorting them out, it's about stopping us getting stung if a player decides to buy out his contract thats why rafa wanted it wrapped up before the end of the season when approaches will no doubt happen

[wavydavy]

This bit here tho, it's not about sorting them out, it's about stopping us getting stung if a player decides to buy out his contract thats why rafa wanted it wrapped up before the end of the season when approaches will no doubt happen

It's incredibly hard to believe 2 billionaires and their staff are blind to information of this nature.

[reddragon]

not sure where this one is going?

Everyone I know thinks Rafa is a top manager - tactically excellent, motivates players well, makes good signings, etc.

Of course he makes mistakes - every top manager does. However, he usually realises them and rectifies them early [witness sacking off Morientes and Gonzales et al / changing tactics in Istanbul / etc.] Of course, this didn't seem to be the case in Athens [still can't bring myself to watch the match after what went on with us that night]

We all remember GH and the crap footie we played then too well to regard Rafa in the same light.

[El Jefecito]

I don't see much more. The fact that it's quoted by the Times means **** all. Doesn't Samuels write for them? It's the use of phrases like "GLOWERED Benitez". When did someone last glower at you? It's sexing up what ain't there. He say he needs FG today. Pick up a ****ing phone or a video phone. This is 2007.
As for being concerned over "the Untouchables" and their new contracts. If they can't wait a while to get their money put up from 3 or 4 million a year to 5 and 6 million a year then they can **** right off in my book. We've been down that road before. Even if it had all been said it would still depend how you, as a reader, interpret it.

You would tell Reina, Xabi, JC and SG to "**** right off"?

This conversation is finished.

[Red_Polo]

If they can't wait a while to get their money put up from 3 or 4 million a year to 5 and 6 million a year then they can **** right off in my book. We've been down that road before. Even if it had all been said it would still depend how you, as a reader, interpret it.

It's not a question of 'they can't wait' it's a question of Rafa not wanting to wait. He wants them secured.

[bigfooty]

I've been saying for a long time now, since October I think on the site that shall not be named, that I don't believe Rafa is the man for us in the league. He's a fine European manager and though he did make mistakes on Wednesday you can see what he was trying to do and but for a flukey goal, or with some better finishing from us, it might have worked.

Like the original poster says the problem is who could really replace him? When I've been challenged over my point of view I've said that, had O'Neill taken over instead of Rafa, I reckon we'd be closer to winning the title. We most likely wouldn't have had anywhere near the same success in Europe, but I'd swap that for being Premiership champions.

The fact is though if Rafa walked tomorrow there aren't any obvious candidates to replace him. Sven? No chance. Jewell? Talented manager but a huge risk. Then you're into taking managers from other clubs and that becomes a lottery and with a significant pressure to go for a Spanish type given the make up of our playing personnel.

[disco]

Could be some truth in it. A mate I watched the game with was fairly anti-Rafa and furious with the lack of 4-4-2 and livid that we didn't put Crouch on until 75 minutes.

To be honest, I didn't really think he knew what he was talking about. Perhaps the fact that we're on the internet means we're obsessed about football and Liverpool and arguably more 'knowledgable' about Rafa's tactics.

Alternatively, perhaps people are too scared to come out with their own opinion sometimes because they might get shot down (which is true to an extent sometimes )