Rafa and his moaning?????

[Pacman]

Playing devils advocate here but it's something we haven't really discussed.

I think Rafa is a top class manager and in a non gay way I fooking love the bloke. He is exactly what I want in a Liverpool manager a winner but with class and dignity with it however:

Since he has been manager there is always constant speculation about his future and every summer there always seem's to be something that he isn't happy about so he makes certain veiled threats through the press.

When he took over at Liverpool he knew what the score was. He took over to try and bring us back to the top of the English game yet the following summer rumours started that he wasn't happy and he might jump ship and go to Madrid. Parry even said that they told him they wouldn't stand in his way when the rumours started. Last summer it was about money and lack of it and again round christmas time before the take over the Madrid stuff reared it's ugly head again. Now he seems to be annoyed with the new owners and how quick thinkgs are moving.

Again playing devils advocate should Rafa not shoulder some of the blame as to why we finished so far behind the scum and the chavs? I mean at the start of the season we were woefull. Some of his signings have been poor - Nunez, Josemi, Nando and Gonzo to name a few. What happenes if the yanks back him in the summer yet we don't produce do you think Rafa will have someone else to blame? What I'm trying to get at is there always seems to be something wrong and non of it his fault.

It seems to me that as good a manager he is he does make things political within the fooball club. If he doesn't like something he takes the hump and all of a sudden 'Rafa to Madrid' starts again.

Again I'll repeat I'm just playing devils advocate here but is it just a coincidence that he left Valencia due to his clashes with the board and now and Liverpool it seems to be happening again?

[Tee]

You have a point - but it seems he is frustrated by the fact that if was given the right financial backing in the first place he would never have signed those ****e players. And he has seen them (no names mentioned) **** up a great opportunity to win the European Cup in a game he knows we should have won.

[AFII]

We don't know what the board promised Rafa last summer or the summer before.

Maybe they promised him that the takeover would happen a lot sooner than it did.

[JCase]

We finished so far behind the Scum because of our poor start to the season. All the rotations, chopping, changing and post WC fatigue. Our away form was pants as well, not withstanding our inability to beat Scum, Arse and Chavs consistently home and away. But yes, Rafa should shoulder a fair bit of the blame for our league position due to his sometime diabolical team selections.

Hopefully he gets it right next season

[Guest]

He's like Kevin Keagan for that matter. He wears his heart on his sleeve.

[brikkis]

I think when you have the best in the business this sort of stuff is always going to happen. I don't believe half of the stuff I read about Rafa leaving anyway especially when he says about his kids speaking scouse, buying a new house and his wife saying how happy and settled she is in Liverpool.

Why would he want to leave? Rafa is happy here and your probably reading to much into things PC

Next year will be the same and the year after and the year after.... Every big club will be after him and why shouldn't he use that to his advantage to get what he wants (If true of course)

[Pacman]

We don't know what the board promised Rafa last summer or the summer before.

Maybe they promised him that the takeover would happen a lot sooner than it did.

By the same token we might have promised him nothing.

By all accounts from what I've read when he met Moores and Parry he sold himself to them not the other way round.

[Imy]

The signings you mention were relatively small amounts of money, especially in comparison to Sheva at the Chavs and Veron at Man Yoo.

Maybe with the more money he can buy proven quality as opposed to a guy thats shown glimpses of talent.

I think he does make mistakes , getting knocked out of both cups and then saying we want to concentrate on the big competitions is silly.

Tactically he has sometimes got it wrong, and i sometimes feel he is overly negative.

But that being said i rather Rafa then 99.9% of other managers.

[dww]

When he took over at Liverpool he knew what the score was. He took over to try and bring us back to the top of the English game yet the following summer rumours started that he wasn't happy and he might jump ship and go to Madrid. Parry even said that they told him they wouldn't stand in his way when the rumours started. Last summer it was about money and lack of it and again round christmas time before the take over the Madrid stuff reared it's ugly head again. Now he seems to be annoyed with the new owners and how quick thinkgs are moving.

I think theer is an element though where the press concoct rumours of a foreign coach being willing to leave at the drop of the hat. Wenger and Mourinho have had the same almost constantly, the difference being that we know that Rafa was made an offer to manage Real and turned it down.

Rafa has had two frustrations all of the time he has been here- that we can't compete for top signings and that the squad he has started with has needed overhauling. The results of the transfers he has made so far he has to take responcibility for - but he needed to change both the makeup in terms of type of player as well as the quality in order to play the way he wanted to. So far he has undoubtedly improved the squad but not at a pace faster than the nearest competitors. The players that haven't improved us have usually been sold at a profit.

You can argue it either way but the goal of the board and the manager is to get the team to a league challenging level. Both should be looking to get the signings we need to do this, everyone is aware that we need two top class players at least and the going rate is ~£20m. If the owners are not willing to put this in then they have made a poor choice of investment and they have also made horrible mistakes when talking to the media and by the looks of it Rafa aswell.

[saveferris]

We all know he doesnt have everything that he wants at the club and you are right in that some of the blame regarding team selections in particular can be aimed at Benitez.

But all in all he is fine, he must be allowed to say what he feels. After all he isnt like Mourinho who as a footy manager has everything and finds more reasons to moan.

[CAD]

Rafa lost the final for us. His lack of balls and late deployment of Crouch hurt us. He should have started with Alonso on the bench and Kuyt as the 2nd striker (behind Crouch) on the midfield in a 4-5-1. Overcautious approach by Rafa against a Milan side we should beaten through sheer power and grit. Rafa lack of balls lost it for us.

He should just shut up after that performance and get the right players for next season.

[dom9]

I'm starting to get bored of it to be honest.

[Tee]

Rafa lost the final for us. His lack of balls and late deployment of Crouch hurt us. He should have started with Alonso on the bench and Kuyt as the 2nd striker (behind Crouch) on the midfield in a 4-5-1. Overcautious approach by Rafa against a Milan side we should beaten through sheer power and grit. Rafa lack of balls lost it for us.

He should just shut up after that performance and get the right players for next season.

I disagree - IMO Rafas tactics were spot on. The system we played and the effectiveness of the world class Mascher made Milan look very very ordinary.

Unfortunately for Rafa the personnel in the key positions for us to go on and win the game were not ever going to be good enough (Zenden, Pennant and Kuyt - a real rarity, a centre forward who hates getting in the box).

[CAD]

I disagree - IMO Rafas tactics were spot on. The system we played and the effectiveness of the world class Mascher made Milan look very very ordinary.

Unfortunately for Rafa the personnel in the key positions for us to go on and win the game were not ever going to be good enough (Zenden, Pennant and Kuyt - a real rarity, a centre forward who hates getting in the box).

My point is that Mascher could have done it without Alonso allowing us to have Gerrard and Kuyt in the center. Pennant would have had Crouch to aim at in the box.

I think it would have made all the difference. To play that Milan side with two defensive mildfielders was overcautious and a mistake in my humble opinion.

[thesilverfoxlfc]

Can we change this title to "Rafa and his wanting to improve the club"