observer newspaper 'scally's to blame'

[Attilladahun]

The blame here doesn't lie in just one place

UEFA ticketing policy is flawed as we all know & that fuels the blackmarket/ touting. Because of the demand & technology available today criminals see a lucerative operation in forged tickets.
This could have been prevented if both clubs were allocated a fairer % of the tickets & UEFA produced a higher quality ticket that was harder to copy/forge

UEFA were also at fault in choosing the venue

The Greeks were to blame for their terrible organisation & security.Turnstiles & those blue checking lights at each turnstile would have prevented most of the forgeries & bunkers in IMHO.

Some of our fans were disgraceful in Athens & I felt ashamed at times to be a Red.

Violence & intimidation used by these scum to relieve genuine fans of their tickets is unbelievable.

Pickpocketing of fans by our own is disgusting

People who bought forgeries knowing them to be so are out of order

People who rushed the gates & bunked in without a ticket are again out of order.

No one party comes out of this with much credit to be honest, Athens is one to forget for me

Well said

[lfcruleus]

The blame here doesn't lie in just one place

UEFA ticketing policy is flawed as we all know & that fuels the blackmarket/ touting. Because of the demand & technology available today criminals see a lucerative operation in forged tickets.
This could have been prevented if both clubs were allocated a fairer % of the tickets & UEFA produced a higher quality ticket that was harder to copy/forge

UEFA were also at fault in choosing the venue

The Greeks were to blame for their terrible organisation & security.Turnstiles & those blue checking lights at each turnstile would have prevented most of the forgeries & bunkers in IMHO.

Some of our fans were disgraceful in Athens & I felt ashamed at times to be a Red.

Violence & intimidation used by these scum to relieve genuine fans of their tickets is unbelievable.

Pickpocketing of fans by our own is disgusting

People who bought forgeries knowing them to be so are out of order

People who rushed the gates & bunked in without a ticket are again out of order.

No one party comes out of this with much credit to be honest, Athens is one to forget for me

Spot on mate, i dont think the article is far wrong but he is wrong about the turnstiles they would have prevented the numbers in the ground, but there would have been even more agro outside.

[kingharry]

The debate is cause and effect isn't it?

The Liverpool fan's defence is the cause i.e. it's not my fault I couldn't get a valid ticket and I could virtually walk in unchallenged with a poor photocopy of the ticket (as well as the sheer volume of convincing fakes). It's a convincing argument.

UEFA and journalist's defence is the effect i.e. it's not our fault that Liverpool fans are at best 'opportunist' and quite a few of them thoughtless scum. Again, it's a convincing argument.

I don't think either 'side' can escape criticism, and ideally both sides would admit their failings and make sure there isn't a repeat.

the point is that if you left your car in town unlocked and it got nicked everyone would just say ,'lock yer car next time soft lad', it's a fact of life and no amount of bleating on web sites or newspapers is going to change it, so why do people keep on saying it's liverpool supporters ,it's not it's lads taking whats on offer and not thinking of the consequences, same as happens every day in every city in the world,

[JRC]

For what its worth, Paul Wilson is a Manchester United supporter.

Actually he's a Bluenose - he wrote very movingly about Ball a couple of weeks ago, explicitly as an Evertonian - but in coming out as such, he has also been very complimentary about Liverpool; club, team -and fans especially after Chelsea - in the past few weeks; surprisingly so, as he has been a bit of an a***hole in the past.

Don't know if this is the full article, but I've read, and expected, worse.

[El Jefecito]

We all know who is to blame. From what I can tell no-one party is innocent. Let's just leave it at that and concentrate on who the hell we will sign this transfer window

[Mattshark]

I blame thatcher and marky

[Nicey]

Without wanting to be too critical or pedantic, your reply to the paper would have had more impact if you had spell checked it before sending.

Really ... what a ****

[Nicey]

this appeared in the observer on sunday i cut and pasted the article followed by my letter of reply to the paper.the ****** really makes me wonder why i bother with the rag

paul wilson(observer sport 26/5) wrote :

Call me hard-hearted if you like, but I found my initial sympathy for all the ticket-holding Liverpool fans tear-gassed and clobbered by Athens police evaporating at the airport the following day, on encountering scally after scally bragging about getting into the European Cup final for nothing.

The police did not cover themselves in glory and doubtless Uefa's security screening could have been tighter, but the experience of frightened fans who said a Hillsborough-type situation was only narrowly avoided should make true Liverpool supporters ponder on cause and effect. Turnstiles cause delays and crushes, yet in their absence it is always going to be difficult for police and security cordons that stop short of army entrenchments, to resist large numbers of recklessly determined gatecrashers who arrive at the same time. Liverpool followers need no history lessons on why all-seat stadiums came about in the first place, and now they are here it does not take a genius to work out that seats occupied by people without tickets must be at the expense of people who paid for them.

So please, Michael Howard and the rest, let's not have any more complaints about police brutality or Uefa inefficiency. The same sort of thing keeps happening too often. This was a problem Liverpool brought with them. The people to blame for fans with tickets being turned away were the fans inside the ground with no tickets. And they must have been Liverpool supporters, because it didn't happen at the Milan end.


dear sir

Paul Wilson in his article 'It's the scally's to blame' (observer 26/5) shows an ignorance and arrogance not in keeping with your paper. He says that 'turnstiles cause crushes' if this is the case then why have they been succesfully used at every football match staged in the last 80 years ? .The champions league final was the first football game i had ever been to where the use of turnstiles was not deemed necersary to ensure crowd safety.The ensuing chaos was a direct result of UEFA'S decision.To use a ground with no turnstiles and to not supply adaquatley trained security stewards is a major failing and one that should be followed up by our Club,FA,MP's and Journalists. It seems that blaming liverpool fans for the shortcomings of UEFA and the FA is still the easy answer and one that unfourtunatley will continue to happen when even the Observer allows it's journalists to slander a club and city as if he was writing for the SUN .The reason it did not happen at the Milan end is not because liverpool supporters are a gang of scally thugs as Mr Wilson believes but because a lot of tickets had been sold on the blackmarket, notice the amount of liverpool supporters all over the ground , and so there was more of us than milan fans.If i know a large volume of people are coming to an event i would set up a system to deal with it, not blame the 'quality' of people turning up to the event !

yours sincerely

[Red_hot]

Really ... what a ****

Cut the insults out mate.

Nobbylad has a point anyway!

[Neil Young]

Nobbylad has a point anyway!

There's a point to Nobbylad? Well I never.

[disco]

the point is that if you left your car in town unlocked and it got nicked everyone would just say ,'lock yer car next time soft lad', it's a fact of life and no amount of bleating on web sites or newspapers is going to change it, so why do people keep on saying it's liverpool supporters ,it's not it's lads taking whats on offer and not thinking of the consequences, same as happens every day in every city in the world,

Well they might, but they'd also say 'what sort of **** nicks cars'

[nobbylad]

FLMAO at some of the responses

FAO King Harry - It was a tongue in cheek comment with a valid point.

So you took the time to write a well thought out response (to a journo who wont give two ****s) and couldn't be arsed clicking a button to spell check it?

FAO Nicey - I liked you better when you were telling us all the world was gonna end or we're being watched by aliens. I'm surprised you watched the final, I wouldn't have thought your impenetrable underground bunker, stuffed with tins of bully beef would have had Sky.

I love you all

(FAO Neil Young - )

[kingharry]

[QUOTE=nobbylad;478390]

FLMAO at some of the responses

FAO King Harry - It was a tongue in cheek comment with a valid point.

So you took the time to write a well thought out response (to a journo who wont give two ****s) and couldn't be arsed clicking a button to spell check it?

cheers for qualifying your reply nobbylad, i guess my anger at the article and the fact i was in a rush means i bashed it out on hotmail rather than on 'word' and so it does diminish the impact of it, i did have a similarly badly spelt letter printed about a year ago though, i believe the ed has a spell check and isn't afraid to use it !

Well they might, but they'd also say 'what sort of **** nicks cars'

yep still missing the point disco, see the guy suing uefa gets the point, they organise a match like it's only suits coming and throw their hands up in dispair when some scalls turn up !
if you want to hang aroung for a few million re incarnations then prehaps you can wait till all scally's have evolved into buddha and asking them politley not to bunk into a game or nick your car will work , me i'll lock me car and bang on to uefa to SORT THEIR **** OUT !!!

[El Jefecito]

[QUOTE=kingharry;479085]

FLMAO at some of the responses

FAO King Harry - It was a tongue in cheek comment with a valid point.

So you took the time to write a well thought out response (to a journo who wont give two ****s) and couldn't be arsed clicking a button to spell check it?

cheers for qualifying your reply nobbylad, i guess my anger at the article and the fact i was in a rush means i bashed it out on hotmail rather than on 'word' and so it does diminish the impact of it, i did have a similarly badly spelt letter printed about a year ago though, i believe the ed has a spell check and isn't afraid to use it !



yep still missing the point disco, see the guy suing uefa gets the point, they organise a match like it's only suits coming and throw their hands up in dispair when some scalls turn up !
if you want to hang aroung for a few million re incarnations then prehaps you can wait till all scally's have evolved into buddha and asking them politley not to bunk into a game or nick your car will work , me i'll lock me car and bang on to uefa to SORT THEIR **** OUT !!!

Class!