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    Liverpool LIVE

    Since it's all speculation and silliness in the silly season thread (and why not), I wanted to post a question that has troubled me for years on these forums and see if I can get a response that satisfies my doubts.

    In assessing a player's ability, potential or MOTM performance, I often see posters use the phrase "I was at the match, I saw him live" as a sort of trump card, a way of validating their assessment of the player. People generally accept on here, it seems, that attending a match is the best way to judge the performance of players on the pitch. I couldn't disagree more and I wonder why no one ever challenges this statement (aside from seeming envious that someone else was at the match), because to me, it is actually an IMPOSSIBILITY that being at the match gives you a superior insight into a players performance than watching it on television.

    The only exception I can think of is the ability to see the entire pitch at once, which is beneficial for watching off the ball movement and movement into space, but even here, you lose the ability to focus as clearly on the shape of play and the build-up as you do on television simply because of the angle of the camera, which is perfectly positioned. And be honest, can you really judge a run and movement of a play that is headed away from you toward the opposite end? Unless you're sitting on the center line, the angle of stadium viewing is a problem. Add to that the distraction of banners waving, the guy next to you screaming and having a laugh, etc etc, it just doesn't seem possible that one would have a better view of the match and performances, which is why managers et al use cameras high above the ground to judge performances and why television cameras are positioned where they are; To best see the game, the run of play, the offside calls, and assess performances.

    I think going to a match is an absolutely superior emotional experience because, like any collective experience, you have the passion and emotion of supporting the club with tens of thousands of others; That is special and irreplaceable. But for understanding the shape of play and judging the positioning and work rate of a player, the TV camera seems superior.

    Looking for reasonable statements otherwise...
    "Our legacy begets an excellence that surpasses the particulars of who produces it." -- David Carr

    #2
    eh
    In Rafa I Trust

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      #3
      I think the fact that at the game you can concentrate on the one players is a crucial factor. You dont see how many passes are not made to an attacker being well tracked by a defender or how strikers are pulling defenders out of position for midfielders to make runs etc on TV. Sure TV is better for off-sides and possibly seeing the close control etc, but in terms of scouting a single player I think live is better than TV.
      "that is my opinion and that is more important than what anyone else has to say about it" - Mr A.Fergusson, Oct 2011

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        #4
        Originally posted by BillobShaisley View Post
        I think the fact that at the game you can concentrate on the one players is a crucial factor. You dont see how many passes are not made to an attacker being well tracked by a defender or how strikers are pulling defenders out of position for midfielders to make runs etc on TV. Sure TV is better for off-sides and possibly seeing the close control etc, but in terms of scouting a single player I think live is better than TV.
        The camera generally just follows the ball, there are so many incidents involving defending and attacking which aren't picked up.
        However, I suppose it depends on your view to some extent.
        Originally posted by Gordon Brown
        (1995)
        "A weak currency is the sign of a weak economy,which is the sign of a weak government"

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          #5
          Originally posted by BillobShaisley View Post
          I think the fact that at the game you can concentrate on the one players is a crucial factor. You dont see how many passes are not made to an attacker being well tracked by a defender or how strikers are pulling defenders out of position for midfielders to make runs etc on TV. Sure TV is better for off-sides and possibly seeing the close control etc, but in terms of scouting a single player I think live is better than TV.
          I concede that point, that off-camera off the ball play is better, meaning play not in the attacking half of the field, but are you really focused in on one player during a match? And can you truly tell the depth of their runs and the quality of their moves from the mish-mash of angles in a stadium seat? I assume most people are watching the ball at the stadium, no? I just don't buy it that the stadium is a more focused place to assess a players performance, but maybe if you're focused on a player, you can tell.

          Like I said, I love attending live matches and feel it is the best way to see a game, but I dont know that I've got a better handle on the performances having attended live...?
          "Our legacy begets an excellence that surpasses the particulars of who produces it." -- David Carr

          Comment


            #6
            kin right attending the game live is a better assessment, you get to see composure, closing down, attacking space, denying space and you dont have to listen to that gobshiite andy gray attending the match doesent mean that some gobshiite has a better handle of the game though
            "People from Liverpool have got something about them and, if they’re not happy about something, they let people know.”
            Jamie Carragher 15/1/2008

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              #7
              Depends how many you've had to drink really before the game doesnt it?

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                #8
                being at a match you can definitly appreciate the players movement and off the ball work more and you can see how quick their space is closed down and how good their control is compared with the tv.
                I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman.

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                  #9
                  Even for the independant-minded, It's sometimes difficult not to get influenced by the commentary - one player gets more mentions, or gasps of orgasmic delight, whilst another only gets their mistakes highlighted - much in the way that Stevie G always gets MOTM in some media, even if he hasn't played all that well.

                  Although, tbh, at the Match I still have to contend with the Main Stand Miserabilists who even abuse their 'favourites' while they're warming up.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by SCOUSERTOMMY View Post
                    kin right attending the game live is a better assessment, you get to see composure, closing down, attacking space, denying space and you dont have to listen to that gobshiite andy gray attending the match doesent mean that some gobshiite has a better handle of the game though
                    Totally agree.

                    Especially about the bit on not believing you on your match analysis Revo.

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                      #11
                      I am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't know how this can be true if you're sitting at the Kop end and the play is moving away from you how you can accurately judge space, etc etc. I have been to my fair share of matches here in the USA (save the slagging off, please) including Liverpool vs Roma a few years back and many Team USA matches, etc and I've had seats all over the ground and I never feel as though I am seeing more of the game (atmosphere aside) and especially not more of a single player than I do when watching on TV. I know how to watch the game, have played it, etc etc.

                      That said, I agree that the commentator are idiots, but I don't let them impact my assessment; I often just sit in wonder at what the hell they're on about when all visual evidence proves the contrary. I do see what you are saying about the individual battles, etc, but the overall shape of play (and the role of the individual player in that shape) seems lost to me. I guess I can continue to be confused. Nothing new there.
                      "Our legacy begets an excellence that surpasses the particulars of who produces it." -- David Carr

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                        #12
                        Agree it depends where you sit. I usually try and get reasonably high and near the centre line if possible. Allthough it does mean sitting in the Morgue like main stand/Paddock etc at Anfield
                        "that is my opinion and that is more important than what anyone else has to say about it" - Mr A.Fergusson, Oct 2011

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by BillobShaisley View Post
                          Agree it depends where you sit. I usually try and get reasonably high and near the centre line if possible. Allthough it does mean sitting in the Morgue like main stand/Paddock etc at Anfield
                          THAT makes perfect sense. ideal seats, then.
                          "Our legacy begets an excellence that surpasses the particulars of who produces it." -- David Carr

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by BrooklynRed View Post
                            I concede that point, that off-camera off the ball play is better, meaning play not in the attacking half of the field, but are you really focused in on one player during a match? And can you truly tell the depth of their runs and the quality of their moves from the mish-mash of angles in a stadium seat? I assume most people are watching the ball at the stadium, no? I just don't buy it that the stadium is a more focused place to assess a players performance, but maybe if you're focused on a player, you can tell.

                            Like I said, I love attending live matches and feel it is the best way to see a game, but I dont know that I've got a better handle on the performances having attended live...?
                            I think attending a live match is far far superior. For example the most notable case in our current team, I don't think you appreciate Luis Garcia's 'off ball' contribution to a performance until you just focus on him and watch how he makes space, pre-empts certain asepcts of play and, importantly, always follows up after a shot on goal in case the goalie makes a blooper

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Phil Eel View Post
                              I think attending a live match is far far superior. For example the most notable case in our current team, I don't think you appreciate Luis Garcia's 'off ball' contribution to a performance until you just focus on him and watch how he makes space, pre-empts certain asepcts of play and, importantly, always follows up after a shot on goal in case the goalie makes a blooper
                              Why can't I see that on TV? I think I do appreciate Garcia's movement and also see his flaws pretty clearly. If it is a matter of focusing on one player, then I think TV can be good (when they aren't cutting in a close up, a tackle, or the manager). Maybe I'm just not focused enough when seeing the match live? Just strange to me.
                              "Our legacy begets an excellence that surpasses the particulars of who produces it." -- David Carr

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