The paper that cannot be mentioned

[murder_inc]

Its education Vantage. If you dont know about it ask the question, which you have done. The only way our younger supporters and supporters from abroad will know the TRUE feelings is if they question things, and ask why is that and how come this is that.
There are websites out there that are VERY educational and are defo worth a look.

[Helios Creed]

VANTAGE, THE SUN WAS AND IS RESPONSIBLE. the sun could easily come out and distance itself from mckenzie and any other wacko that was involved. a sincere and utter regret without any ploys or public relations to be the agenda.

If they did this, I guess the official boycott would be lifted? (I say the official one, as I can't imagine many people on here buying it ever again, whatever they say.)

[Revo]

If they did this, I guess the official boycott would be lifted? (I say the official one, as I can't imagine many people on here buying it ever again, whatever they say.)

i would never buy it, then again i couldent unconditionally ever forgive them either

[ronan]

the only problem with leaving this thread open is that it will be filled with bull**** as well as points repeated over and over by people who cant be arsed reading the previous pages and eventually it will be dropped as it goes inevitably off subject.

[vantage]

Its education Vantage. If you dont know about it ask the question, which you have done. The only way our younger supporters and supporters from abroad will know the TRUE feelings is if they question things, and ask why is that and how come this is that.
There are websites out there that are VERY educational and are defo worth a look.

I'm not young and I've only been abroad two years.

But, down sarf, where I lived, you never got to hear much about it. It's only since I joined KT about 4 years ago that feelings became really clear to me.

[Morph]

I think this has been a good thread but i'm failing to see what's it's purpose is now, all thats gonna happen is previous posts being requoted again when they've already been discussed, why not move it into the site feedback forum or something were ppl can go and discuss if they really want to but your average poster isn't going to stumble across it and start rehashing previously discussed points.

Fredo's probably said as much as he's going to on the matter, and it almost seems a bit perverse keeping it open for it to be continually discussed. Don't get me wrong we can discuss the rag all day long, but it's the way the thread started that seems a bit unfair to keep it open imo

[Kaip]

the only problem with leaving this thread open is that it will be filled with bull**** as well as points repeated over and over by people who cant be arsed reading the previous pages and eventually it will be dropped as it goes inevitably off subject.

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

I was very wary of deflecting the debate in a different direction and was glad that no-one picked up the debate or had a go over it.

I simply felt that if the same level of respect and sensitivity was extended to serious and painful topics that affect other ESTers it would make the site a stronger one.

Sorry to hear about the little rash.

I can see your point, but I personally thought the subject matter didn't need distracting. A debate on the double standards shown by posters on hundreds of thousands of message boards would only end in a circular argument, since we all have our double standards. Admittedly racism is high on the agenda, but being a white guy the only times I've been racially abused it has been brushed aside. I'm wary of entering debates on racism because I am of the opinion that the human race is divided into ethnic groups not races and the word ethnicism isn't so easy on the tongue. But that's just me relying on biological determinism.

Having been into hardcore punk since the mid 80's, I was exposed to lots of 'right on' people, the majority of who were ardent anti-football anarchists or socialists. And a Thatcherite footballing England back then was anathema to such people. But as time wore on, their darker sides appeared and I realised that even the people who spout rhetoric have their own misgivings. There is no ideal world on the internet an I am sure that nobody would have the courage or the foresight to share their double standards here or anywhere else. My own EST persona is far from my real personality and I am quite sensitive to injustice, but I am far from perfect and try my hardest to be a decent person. I do feel that racism is largely dependent upon your upbringing and seldom do people exist who are entirely free from the stain of racism.

[Helios Creed]

i would never buy it, then again i couldent unconditionally ever forgive them either

I don't think anyone who knew the truth would - too little, too late.

[Helios Creed]

I can see your point, but I personally thought the subject matter didn't need distracting. A debate on the double standards shown by posters on hundreds of thousands of message boards would only end in a circular argument, since we all have our double standards. Admittedly racism is high on the agenda, but being a white guy the only times I've been racially abused it has been brushed aside. I'm wary of entering debates on racism because I am of the opinion that the human race is divided into ethnic groups not races and the word ethnicism isn't so easy on the tongue. But that's just me relying on biological determinism.

Having been into hardcore punk since the mid 80's, I was exposed to lots of 'right on' people, the majority of who were ardent anti-football anarchists or socialists. And a Thatcherite footballing England back then was anathema to such people. But as time wore on, their darker sides appeared and I realised that even the people who spout rhetoric have their own misgivings. There is no ideal world on the internet an I am sure that nobody would have the courage or the foresight to share their double standards here or anywhere else. My own EST persona is far from my real personality and I am quite sensitive to injustice, but I am far from perfect and try my hardest to be a decent person. I do feel that racism is largely dependent upon your upbringing and seldom do people exist who are entirely free from the stain of racism.

I did get some messages from people who agreed that the excellent attitude shown on here could be extended to other areas. Didn't want a debate or to score points, just some people to think a bit. Like you said this isn't the place to get into details.