Ryan Babel

[JPK]

Kewell hasn't hit his top form for us in general but when played for extended periods he has given great balance and showed against Chelsea in the cup the other year that he is capable of magic.

I don't think that all our players have to be great we need to create a great attacking unit. I believe that Aurelio and Pennant can play roles in that. I also think that Pennant can improve to be a very good player for us (I'm not advocating Pennant and Aurelio in the same side there by the way, we will have to pick specific sets of 4 players depending on the opposition).

I still think that Babel is capable and even if not played in every match at least gives the option from the bench of someone capable of producing something to unlock a team.

I think that the idea will be to play Babel/Kewell in the LW position. The point is that Kewell will have to be rested and we may have to ease Babel in. He needs time and it may be better to have a functional player like Riise on the left to allow greater freedom to the three attacking players or to allow us to play Gerrard in the centre to make us more attacking there.

I really think you are jumping to judgement to early of our reshaped squad. Benayoun on the right against us in the FA cup final proved he is capable of the bit of magic you demand. Pennant had a very good CL final and with a bit of composure and Torres giving him an option inside will be a real asset to us next season. Torres is another player capable of magic.

I can understand your concern but I really think the current squad deserves a chance to prove itself. Too much upheaval is usually bad for a team and I think in every area we are better this year than we were last and given that a lot of our players underperformed last year I expect a sizable improvement this season.

I will give them a chance but we are still short of top class players.
Will we win the top games this year by playing breath taking football and dishing out a lesson with Aurelio and Benayoun on the the wings and Pennant and Kewell for that matter?No we wont.We will contain the oppositions attackers first,Keep it tight and try nick a goal.Chelsea and the mancs have better width than us.If our wingers was on an equal level,then we could go out and out play them with style and class.Rafa has the tactics and the knowledge.He just does not have the personel yet.I know what i'm getting with Kewell already(**** all but excuses and whining),Pennant is a tryer but is a poor mans Alves and I like Benayoun and he is tricky but is not a winger in a sense.Babel will be class and I have no worries for him in the future.
The way we tried to get him away with balls over the top against Pompey,reminded me of how we used to play Owen.Striker could be his position yet with his pace and not the wing.

[dww]

That doesn't mean Rafa is always right though does it? Playing from the right and drifting in is a totally different role for him to take on compared with for example playing in a two man centre mid alongside Mascherano. The two roles present the player with different situations and require different characteristics and approaches. IMO Gerrard is an excellent RM player and a world class central midfielder.

If you're building a team for the long term I think it's best to put your best players in their best positions, and there's no doubt in my mind Gerrard's influence on a game, number of assists and goals, is greater when he plays a box to box CM role alongside someone more defensive. That's not an arrogant claim to know more about football than Rafa, it's just an example of a person having their own opinion on something and it happening to differ from one manager.

I tend to think that Gerrards best position depends on who is around him. His major assets are his driving runs, committing players and getting positions to score or set people up, and his long passing.

With two players out wide and pace up front then Gerrards long passing gives us an excellent way to attack teams. If we have good movement from an attacking 4 with pace then he can exploit this from Cm best and it is his best position. To us it best he probably needs a fast forward to make Owen like runs from deep into the box. Without the right level of movement up front his tendency to look for the killer ball becomes a problem in terms of giving the ball away. He is not a natural keep ball player and we tend to labour a bit sometimes when the game takes this form with Stevie in there.

This problem is probably exacerbated by the way Rafa like to play two deep lying CMs, maybe if he played a role more similar to Scholes at Man United this problem would vanish. I can't help feeling that playing that way relies on the fact that three of the attacking 4 are genuine reknown goal threats and that teams allow United extra room in the middle. Their midfield was very ineffective against us at Anfield when we put pressure against them last season.

I think the free role from the right suits his driving runs better to be honest. he is closer to the attack and he combines well with Kuyt for example on the edge of the area. Trouble is last season he drifted too frequently and was a bit of a liability at right mid. Partly I blame this on the other three attacking players - no one instinctively swapped or covered the position he vacated. We tended to crowd the left hand side. If he returned to the way he played right mid the season before last he could offer us a lot - good movement, crossing, eye for goal and the willingness to commit defenders. We need someone to cover him when he goes out of position though. I think Babel has the attributes to do this, but does he have the intelligence?

[JPK]

That doesn't mean Rafa is always right though does it? Playing from the right and drifting in is a totally different role for him to take on compared with for example playing in a two man centre mid alongside Mascherano. The two roles present the player with different situations and require different characteristics and approaches. IMO Gerrard is an excellent RM player and a world class central midfielder.

If you're building a team for the long term I think it's best to put your best players in their best positions, and there's no doubt in my mind Gerrard's influence on a game, number of assists and goals, is greater when he plays a box to box CM role alongside someone more defensive. That's not an arrogant claim to know more about football than Rafa, it's just an example of a person having their own opinion on something and it happening to differ from one manager.

As for Babel, I haven't seen a lot of him, but he appears to be gifted in most of the right departments - close control at pace, good short passing etc. I have nagging doubts about our new widemen but hopefully they can settle in and show their quality sooner rather than later. I think Maestro made a good point earlier in saying that if Kewell is playing well it will take some of the pressure off.

Good post there RP.But "if" Kewell produces like Maestro said.I find it sad that we are relying on him now.When you look at the class players we have up the middle of our team and then the wide players we have,it looks unbalanced.

[JPK]

Ok add another class wide player and i'm going to say Alves for example.
Torres
Gerrard
Babel Monster Xabi Alves.
We would have Momo to come into midfield.Pennant to be cover on the right.
Benayoun who could play that No.10 role Gerrard plays in aswell as Kuyt and Voronin and Crouchie our top scorer last year to cover for Torres.
I would be happier then

[The_weatherman]

I think Rafa is trying to get the most out of Liverpool, not Steven Gerrard. If playing Gerrard on the right gets the most out of Liverpool, I'm all for it.

[Maestro]

Good post there RP.But "if" Kewell produces like Maestro said.I find it sad that we are relying on him now.When you look at the class players we have up the middle of our team and then the wide players we have,it looks unbalanced.

No one mentioned "relying" on Kewell...I was pointing out that if Kewell stays fit and plays well, Babel will not be under the spotlight and will be able to ease himself into English football gradually. If Kewell doesn't stay fit, and plays poorly, I would still hope we can "rely" on Babel - it would just mean that the pressure on him will be greater to produce from the off...

[JPK]

No one mentioned "relying" on Kewell...I was pointing out that if Kewell stays fit and plays well, Babel will not be under the spotlight and will be able to ease himself into English football gradually. If Kewell doesn't stay fit, and plays poorly, I would still hope we can "rely" on Babel - it would just mean that the pressure on him will be greater to produce from the off...

Maestro I was just using the "if" part and I said the relying part myselfYou make a very good point and that is the way to ease a player from a new country in unless they are class from the word go.Personally I dont think Kewell will be any different that what we have seen since he put on the red shirt.I was'nt having a dig at you,just at Kewell

[carrsim]

**** me there are a lot of definitives in this thread

steve WILL play right
babel WILL be ****
Kewell WILL get injured

and all because a new 20 year old signing hasn't scored 2 hattricks in the game and a half he's played pre season.

give me strength

[dww]

**** me there are a lot of definitives in this thread

steve WILL play right
babel WILL be ****
Kewell WILL get injured

and all because a new 20 year old signing hasn't scored 2 hattricks in the game and a half he's played pre season.

give me strength

To be fair I think we all expect that one to be true.

I agree that there has been a somewhat knee jerk reaction to the form and ability of Babel. However I think a lot of people feel we needed to get in players for now and not the future this year and even before we signed him people had questions about this with Babel. Still if he had signed for Arsenal I suspect everyone would be creaming themselves about how good he was and bemoaning how we let another top talent get away.

[Johnny]

I for 1 will give him at least 10 games before i make a judgement.

[carrsim]

Still if he had signed for Arsenal I suspect everyone would be creaming themselves about how good he was and bemoaning how we let another top talent get away.

i actually typed that and then erased it


and as for giving him at least 10 games...that's good of you

[Johnny]

i actually typed that and then erased it


and as for giving him at least 10 games...that's good of you:rash:

I`m glad your not manager,crouch would never have played 19 games before he scored.

[Kopite_Colin]

I think Rafa is trying to get the most out of Liverpool, not Steven Gerrard. If playing Gerrard on the right gets the most out of Liverpool, I'm all for it.

To get the best out of THIS LFC team, you need to get the best out of SG - he's our best player. We should be aiming to get the best out of all 11 individuals AND the team.

[El Jefecito]

To get the best out of THIS LFC team, you need to get the best out of SG - he's our best player. We should be aiming to get the best out of all 11 individuals AND the team.

It's the perenial discussion. Personally, I think the TEAM is better with Gerrard on the right. If Xabi and Momo continue their preseason form and El Jefecito continues his form from last season, they perform too well to be delegated to the bench. Sir Stevie @ 80% on the right is better than losing any of them.

Remember he scored 23 from RM. Consider that we have also signed Lucas who promises 10 from midfield then I'm pretty sure that Rafa has decided that Gerrard is one of the 3 in the 4231.

Right or wrong, deal with it, and work out how to make it optimal. Thats what Rafa is doing.

[stevie_gerrard_8]

It's the perenial discussion. Personally, I think the TEAM is better with Gerrard on the right. If Xabi and Momo continue their preseason form and El Jefecito continues his form from last season, they perform too well to be delegated to the bench. Sir Stevie @ 80% on the right is better than losing any of them.

Remember he scored 23 from RM. Consider that we have also signed Lucas who promises 10 from midfield then I'm pretty sure that Rafa has decided that Gerrard is one of the 3 in the 4231.

Right or wrong, deal with it, and work out how to make it optimal. Thats what Rafa is doing.

I also think Gerrard plays better on the right, as he has more license to roam. The thing is, the right hand side is only his starting position, while during the game he has a free role and which menas he causes havoc to other defences.