A draw against Pompey is a good result - positivity thread

[Shaggy]

its not what he's done its what he brings to the table, power, pace and goal threat. if pennant isn't going to provide a goal threat then there needs to be one on the other side.

Agreed but I still think he's a way to go yet. People are talking about the wonderful performance against Derby and mentioning Babel's name alongside those of Torres, Mascherano et al. Babel was rubbish against Derby. Scored a great goal, yeah, but otherwise he was off the pace.

Bags and bags of potential but it's nowhere near being fully realised yet. The problem is, who the **** else do we play out there? Benayoun doesn't convince on that side, Riise...enough said, Kewell....who? Leto not ready, Aurelio coming back to fitness but not really the answer in midfield....

Struggling a bit in that position, for me.

[spider-neil]

left side

kewell - talented but injury prone
aurelio - talented but injury prone
riise - goal threat but slow and one dimensional
leto - haven't seen enough fo him
yossi - lightweight and slow

I'd argue there are some on the list currently more suited to first team football but I stcik with him and give his games because his potential is far greater than any of the above.

[Shaggy]

Bags and bags of potential but it's nowhere near being fully realised yet. The problem is, who the **** else do we play out there? Benayoun doesn't convince on that side, Riise...enough said, Kewell....who? Leto not ready, Aurelio coming back to fitness but not really the answer in midfield....

Struggling a bit in that position, for me.

left side

kewell - talented but injury prone
aurelio - talented but injury prone
riise - goal threat but slow and one dimensional
leto - haven't seen enough fo him
yossi - lightweight and slow

I'd argue there are some on the list currently more suited to first team football but I stcik with him and give his games because his potential is far greater than any of the above.

Snap.

[spider-neil]

Agreed but I still think he's a way to go yet. People are talking about the wonderful performance against Derby and mentioning Babel's name alongside those of Torres, Mascherano et al. Babel was rubbish against Derby. Scored a great goal, yeah, but otherwise he was off the pace.

Bags and bags of potential but it's nowhere near being fully realised yet. The problem is, who the **** else do we play out there? Benayoun doesn't convince on that side, Riise...enough said, Kewell....who? Leto not ready, Aurelio coming back to fitness but not really the answer in midfield....

Struggling a bit in that position, for me.

to be fair he was rubbish until the goal and then he was excellent unlike he was brought off, babel has been involved in virtually all our best attacking moves, if there has been a free flwoing move this season he has usually been at the heart of it. he sorely missed his pace yesterday if nothing else.

[spider-neil]

Snap.

[ningnangnong]

Points well made ningnangnong

But is a word used in many an argument such as "Ningnangnong could make a good point BUT he resorts to posting **** smileys instead"

Touche.

[Guest]

FFS fellas, still running this argument that late in the night.

Shaggy's said it somewhere in this thread. Rafa trusts his squad to deliver (and rightly so) so he was entitled to rest even our most prized assets on Saturday.

Anyways, I still feel that Man Utd have more match winners in their squad than ours, still. They have Tevez, Nani, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo, Saha, Rooney and we have only Gerrard, Torres and probably Kewell & Babel (who is still raw). Benayoun and Pennant still can't be classed as match winners yet and that's why Rafa is still somewhat limited when he decides to rest Torres or Stevie G.

Maybe it's too early to think about winning the title and Rafa knows that.

[sonsofthedesert]

Portsmouth 0, Liverpool 0 (D,Post)Sep 17 2007




by Ben Thornley at Fratton Park


IF Rafael Benitez approaches the Premier League title race like a relay, then his changed side were guilty of fumbling their hand off at Fratton Park on Saturday.

After grumbling with some justification about the unfortunate timing of this midday clash, the manager was always likely to rotate for the arduous journey to the south coast.

The selection of fresh legs, however, served only to produce the most jaded Liverpool showing of the campaign to date, the Anfield outfit surrendering the momentum of their blistering start to the season in this dour stalemate.

Benitez had predicted this fixture would serve as a barometer for his outfit’s title credentials, but this was not a performance befitting a contender for the crown.

It could have been far worse for the manager, though, Pepe Reina saving superbly from Kanu’s languid spot kick on 32 minutes, after Alvaro Arbeloa had controversially been adjudged to have pulled back Benjani in the box by match official Mike Riley.


Of Saturday’s starting XI, only Andriy Voronin saw any real international action in midweek. Yet the visitors only became a credible attacking force with the arrival from the bench of Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres in the second half, both of whom featured prominently in their respective countries’ Euro 2008 qualifiers.


As Benitez’s men lost their place at the summit of the table, it would be easy for his critics to point the finger at the Spaniard’s penchant for tinkering.


He made five changes here to the side which routed Derby County 6-0 in their last outing, one of which was the return of Jamie Carragher from injury for Sami Hyypia.


However, just as examination of Benitez’s employment of zonal marking is reserved for the rare occasion Liverpool concede from a set piece, discussion of his rotation policy is reopened only after a setback.


It is, of course, also worth remembering at this point that a draw is a point more than defending champions Manchester United earned at this notoriously difficult venue last term. In fact, in the last four campaigns only Chelsea of the eventual champions have left Fratton Park with all three points.


And as Peter Crouch later pointed out, this was a contest Liverpool would probably have lost last term.


But with that in mind, would Benitez not have been better served resting players at home this Saturday to a poor Birmingham side who will pose few of the problems created by Harry Redknapp’s men?


There still remains that this was an opportunity lost, although the men he entrusted to collect the baton from their more esteemed colleagues, however, must share an element of the blame.


Benitez’s caution over the use of Gerrard after the skipper’s recent return from injury is understandable, but the relegation of Torres to the bench suggests that the manager had one eye on tomorrow’s Champions League clash with Porto. This, despite claiming the Premier League to be his priority this season.


Torres in many respects is already as important to Benitez’s new-look Liverpool as Gerrard, who is revelling in a return to his favoured central role for both club and country.


Without the pair for over an hour on Saturday, the visitors lacked drive and incision along their spine. Momo Sissoko and Xabi Alonso, no longer considered Liverpool’s first choice engine room pairing, bring energy and creativity to Benitez’s midfield but neither man can wrest control of game in the manner in which Gerrard is capable of.


Both players also prefer to perform the majority of their work from deep positions. On the wings, Jermaine Pennant showed only flashes of his recent outstanding form, while Yossi Benayoun was neat in possession without ever unduly troubling Pompey – a rasping effort which forced David James into a sprawling save on four minutes aside.


In attack, Voronin and Crouch have forged a good understanding but neither frontrunner possesses the kind of blistering pace necessary to play effectively on the counterattack away from home.


While Voronin – who over hit a through ball for Pennant on eight minutes after wrong footing Sylvain Distin – worked tirelessly, Crouch, was out of sorts on his first Premier League start of the season.

Last season’s top scorer, despite continuing to make all of the right noises, is increasingly bearing the look of a man who realises that regardless of how well he performs or how many goals he scores, his chances of a prolonged run in the first team are slim. In his defence, however, Crouch is a confidence player who requires a run of games to get into his long stride.

The England marksman, who finished with 23 strikes for club and country last term, was the given the opportunity to open his domestic account on 17 minutes by Sissoko’s incisive pass. But former Liverpool keeper James proved to be the equal of his drive across goal, shortly before Benjani tested Reina at the other end.

Despite keeping more clean sheets than any other top-flight glovesman in the last two successive campaigns, the Spanish shotstopper is seemingly only ever lauded for his penalty-saving abilities.

He was on hand to expertly thwart Kanu on 32 minutes, diving to his right to deny Pompey’s Nigerian striker, but it would be a disservice to Reina to hail the keeper’s performance for this act alone.

While keepers at lesser sides routinely catch the eye in under-siege displays, his reputation almost seems to suffer for having defenders of the quality of Carragher, Daniel Agger and Hyypia in front of him.

Make no mistake, however, Reina’s proactive style is just as important to Liverpool’s defensive meanness as the club’s heralded centre backs.

An interesting point about the champions over the past 4 years, only the chavs in one season have manged a win there.

[Woobus]

I can understand why Rafa rested Torres etc. If you look at the fixtures coming up after the Champs League games you will see we have some very big matches against Totenham, Man Utd and Arsenal.
If we can manage to beat Porto away it will then give Rafa more chances to rest the key players before these big Premiership games.

[Frank Leroux]

Obviously I don't post as often as I should - what with notionally at least being part of a 'community' here - but part of the reson I don't (as I didn't on the 'other' 'dodgy' Forum I was part of ) is that I tend to take a long term view of things (is it my age?) and generally I err on the side of caution, pessimism even when it comes to reactions/opinions on LFC.

So now, and despite my sig, that I find myself drifting ever so slowly but discernably over to the 'positive side'.....I'm finding that a point at Fratton Park, against a better Portsmouth side than previous years, following two clear-cut chances for them as well as a missed (saved) penalty is a poor result!

Please guys/galls, sit back and take a wider view. This has clearly been our best start to the season in years. Even I can discern a distinct change in Benitez's attitude to the coming campaign. He took a chance with the selection - and even though I wouldn't have it partially worked. Likely only at the end of the season will we see how valuable a point this was - it had defeat written all over it for most of the game and Utd, Chelsea & Arsenal will find it no easier (have Utd played there already, in fact?).

Frank.

[Shaggy]

Obviously I don't post as often as I should - what with notionally at least being part of a 'community' here - but part of the reson I don't (as I didn't on the 'other' 'dodgy' Forum I was part of ) is that I tend to take a long term view of things (is it my age?) and generally I err on the side of caution, pessimism even when it comes to reactions/opinions on LFC.

So now, and despite my sig, that I find myself drifting ever so slowly but discernably over to the 'positive side'.....I'm finding that a point at Fratton Park, against a better Portsmouth side than previous years, following two clear-cut chances for them as well as a missed (saved) penalty is a poor result!

Please guys/galls, sit back and take a wider view. This has clearly been our best start to the season in years. Even I can discern a distinct change in Benitez's attitude to the coming campaign. He took a chance with the selection - and even though I wouldn't have it partially worked. Likely only at the end of the season will we see how valuable a point this was - it had defeat written all over it for most of the game and Utd, Chelsea & Arsenal will find it no easier (have Utd played there already, in fact?).

Frank.

[JCase]

loads of people arguing with dj and **** only knows why.

here are some things we KNEW going into this game

a) pompy are no mugs.
we got ONE POINT off them after two games last season, they beat manu last season and drew manu THIS season, if somehow we had a goldfish like memory only this PRESEASON did we fail to beat them. make no mistake it was PATENTLY obvious pompy was going to be one of our most difficult away matches this season.

b) campbell and disten are quick, strong and EXTREMELY good in the air
we went into the game with crouch and voronin. erm see the flaw there?

basically to have a cahnce of coming away with all three points we need as much pace and goal threat as humanly possible, this is the midfield we played
yossi------alonso------momo------pennant

pennant and yossi are unlikely to score (look at their records for past clubs)
momo next goal will arrive with the next ice age, alonso is the holding midfielder so wouldn't get forwards like he did v derby. then you take into acount the lack of pace from midfield so there would be little or no support for crouch (which is exactly what happened) so crouch who was ALWAYS going to struggle v campbell job was made nigh on impossible (still didn't cover himself in glory though with his half arsed attitude)

we needed pace
we needed power
we needed goal threats

now I'm not going to be a hyprocrite and say I would have started gerrard becasue I wouldn't have but at the very LEAST I would have started torres and babel because

a) they are as fast as all ****
b) they are strong
c) they can create something from nothing

they are 20 and 23 respectively you mean to tell me they can't handle 3 games in a week FIVE GAMES into the season?

make no mistake chelsea, aresnal manu will not be dropping many points at home AWAY is where the league will be won (or lost) when you play p'moth/everton/b'burn/bolton/spurs away you need your best or as close to your best to to acheive all three points if we want to win the league and thats whatwe'r talking about not just securing CL qualification then 1 point away just isn't going to cut it.

picking a team deviod of pace and power and match winners is really setting yourself up for a fall. lets be honest here if we were playing manu away gerrard and torres would have started so more than fitness was in rafa's thinking.

Cracking post

[spider-neil]

An interesting point about the champions over the past 4 years, only the chavs in one season have manged a win there.

erm, correct me if I'm wrong but to win the league shouldn't we be aimming to BETTER our rivals results?

[Red Chilli]

erm, correct me if I'm wrong but to win the league shouldn't we be aimming to BETTER our rivals results?

Good point

[Craig_H]

erm, correct me if I'm wrong but to win the league shouldn't we be aimming to BETTER our rivals results?