Dogged Rafa calls Torres back to front

[CAD]

I really hate the 3-5-2 formation and while I see your point I actually think it is easier to defend against as a 4-5-1 as both are essentially possession based tactics.

While people say that a 3-5-2 is more attacking in this case I disagree for the following reasons:

1/ If most of the game does take place in midfield you do leave 3 marking one. In a 4-4-2 in this case you can easily release both fullbacks to go forward - they don't have to be nominally midfielders to add with or attacking intent to a team.

2/ In a 3-5-2 what happens more often than not is that if the team playing 4-5-1 has any width at all or ever push fullbacks forward you end up with a 5-3-2 which is obviously defensive.

3/ What is the real difference between a back four with a holding midfielder in front of it and a three with two wingbacks. It is mostly nominal if you allow the fullbacks to push on except for the fact that in all likelyhood a holding midfielder is better at passing etc. than the extra centreback.

4/ When on the defensive if you play a genuine back three you either have to bring your fullbacks back to cover the width of the pitch or leave big gaps or alter organisation. The back 4 is the simplest and thus generally most sensible formation for covering counter attacks imo.

In general you should only play a 3-5-2 formation if a/ your opponents are inept in wide areas and lack organisation or b/ you are aiming to keep possession and keep a 0-0.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the reason that the reason none of the worlds top coaches regularly use a 3-5-2 formation is because it is inflexible and in general inferior. Essentially a modern 4-4-2 with more athletic players and a holding midfielder has made the 3-5-2 and sweepers redundant or at least a tactic to use only on rare occasions.

Agree with most of it. This was one of those rare occasions imho. When you play a team that offers NOTHING forward you can afford a 3-5-2. I agree that in general it's not the way to go.

[CAD]

It was a draw though.

It stung like a loss. It tasted like a loss. It was a loss

Even though it was a draw

[Craig_H]

Tell the thousands of fans that make the trip to the finals and those going from Liverpool and behond to Reading tonight that its a worthless game.

I'm going, and i'd rather he saved torres for a more important game...like Wigan on Saturday.

[sid]

FERNANDO TORRES will step unexpectedly back into Liverpool’s front line tonight with Rafa Benitez insisting doggedly he knows how best to handle the striker.

Liverpool’s £18million record signing started on the bench in Saturday’s damaging Premier League stalemate with Birmingham, but has been included in a almost full-strength squad for the Carling Cup tie at Reading.

Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher will also feature at the Madejski Stadium, as Benitez underlines his intention to fight for trophies on four fronts.

“I want to go forward in the Carling Cup, that’s clear,” said the Liverpool manager. “How we go about doing that is the question. If, with your squad, you can fight for four trophies then that’s perfect.”

Yet having overlooked Torres for a starting role at the weekend, and subsequently watching his side squander two points in a dour 0-0 draw, his methods will come under heavy scrutiny once again.

Benitez has become increasingly irked by the criticism his team selections have received – rumblings of discontent spread among supporters on Saturday – but served notice that he will not be railroaded into ditching his beliefs by selecting a travelling party packed with internationals.

Barring any last-minute disruptions, Torres is likely to be partnered by Peter Crouch at Reading. Brazilian defender Fabio Aurelio is also in line to make his first senior start since rupturing an Achilles tendon in a Champions League win over PSV Eindhoven in March.

Torres was restricted to a 30-minute cameo against Steve Bruce’s Birmingham – Benitez arguing that Andriy Voronin and Dirk Kuyt were better suited to playing against packed defences.

This was a startling admission, given the Spaniard formed the centrepiece of a £45m summer spending spree and was brought in to make a difference to Liverpool’s domestic toils.

The inclusion of Gerrard is also something of a surprise, since Benitez stated after the Birmingham game his captain was not “100 per cent fresh”, and blamed England for over-burdening the 27-year-old following his recovery from a broken toe.

“It depends on how the senior players are as to whether we think about using some of the reserves,” said Benitez. “I don’t want to promise them anything. Maybe I will use a team full of senior players.

“I don’t like to experiment. I prefer to be sure. If we need to use a player, it’s because we think he’s good enough, not because we want to experiment.” Liverpool, who beat Reading 4-3 at Anfield in the same stage of the competition last season, will hand a debut to French goalkeeper Charles Itandje, signed from Lens on a free transfer, as Pepe Reina is rested.

“Reina is a very good keeper and I am clearly going to be the No2,” said Itandje. “But there are 60 matches a season and it is planned that I will play in the League Cup and FA Cup.

“I could have joined Almeria in Spain as their first choice, but I didn’t choose the easy way. I preferred to join a very big club. It is up to me to create a doubt in the coach’s mind.”

Harry Kewell, who has yet to play this season, is again missing with Liverpool unwilling to take any risks with the Australia winger who has been nursing a groin injury.

“I don’t think he will be in contention. It’s too early,” said Benitez. “He is improving, but he still needs a little bit more time.”

Kewell’s contract expires at the end of the campaign and he will be free to talk terms with foreign clubs from January.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...-back-to-front

[sid]

Paulcooper4 and pacman - the drivel, i mean the facking drivel that u 2 speak is beyond humourous!! :whatever::whatever::whatever:

[CAD]

DWW put it into words better than I ever could.

Why on earth you would want to play 3 players against 1 is beyond me.

Pacstar ffs. You play 3 in defense instead of 4. It's more risky but it gives you an extra player on the midfield. Against teams who only show up to defend and offer nothing forward a 3-5-2 can be useful. It can also be deployed as a surprise package of pressure like (if I recall correctly) I believe we did against Newcastle last season. To say that you can't understand why you would play with three players against one is moronic. You think it's better to play with 4 in the back?!? What ARE you saying?



I don't know what to say to you other than I would be very very careful judging other peoples level of knowledge about football if I were you

[Neil Young]

Pacstar ffs. You play 3 in defense instead of 4. It's more risky but it gives you an extra player on the midfield. Against teams who only show up to defend and offer nothing forward a 3-5-2 can be useful. It can also be deployed as a surprise package of pressure like (if I recall correctly) I believe we did against Newcastle last season. To say that you can't understand why you would play with three players against one is moronic. You think it's better to play with 4 in the back?!? What ARE you saying?



I don't know what to say to you other than I would be very very careful judging other peoples level of knowledge about football if I were you

I think all your arguments about the benefits of playing 3-5-2 have already been countered in full by dww.

Naturally I agree with you that Pacman is something of an *rs*.

[The_weatherman]

Does anyone have the provisional squad for the game?

[CAD]

I think all your arguments about the benefits of playing 3-5-2 have already been countered in full by dww.

Naturally I agree with you that Pacman is something of an *rs*.

And like I said; I agree with DWW in principle. It should only be deployed against inept defensive sides. Brum on Saturday was not far off the mark was it?

I think we can all agree that we needed something extra against Brum. I'm not necessarily saying that the gospel would be a 3-5-2 but it was certainly a possibility. We didn't have much to lose. It would have given us more pressure and leverage.

3-5-2 won us the CL

[Pacman]

Pacstar ffs. You play 3 in defense instead of 4. It's more risky but it gives you an extra player on the midfield. Against teams who only show up to defend and offer nothing forward a 3-5-2 can be useful. It can also be deployed as a surprise package of pressure like (if I recall correctly) I believe we did against Newcastle last season. To say that you can't understand why you would play with three players against one is moronic. You think it's better to play with 4 in the back?!? What ARE you saying?



I don't know what to say to you other than I would be very very careful judging other peoples level of knowledge about football if I were you

Brum played one up front Sami and Carra can easily deal with him which leaves our full backs enough freedom to double up on the flanks with Pennant and Babel which gives you that extra man in midfield plus 1. If you play 3 Centre Backs then the 3 of them would be picking up one guy which I find a ludicrous suggestion. Also when we are defending you end up in a 5-3-2 situation which means it's harder to counter attack.

FFS mate that is basic stuff if you have ever done any coaching.

[Neil Young]

And like I said; I agree with DWW in principle. It should only be deployed against inept defensive sides. Brum on Saturday was not far off the mark was it?

I think we can all agree that we needed something extra against Brum. I'm not necessarily saying that the gospel would be a 3-5-2 but it was certainly a possibility. We didn't have much to lose. It would have given us more pressure and leverage.

3-5-2 won us the CL

If you've got Mascherano as the defensive midfielder then...oh never mind.

Dudek won us the CL too. Would you have him instead of Reina?

[Pacman]

Paulcooper4 and pacman - the drivel, i mean the facking drivel that u 2 speak is beyond humourous!! :whatever::whatever::whatever:

Because we trust our manager and support our team? It's easy to be a key board warrior when you know **** all about players energy levels and what's going on behind the scenes. Rafa is a highly successful manger one that is cavorted by most of the big clubs in Europe yet I am expected to agree with people who haven't got his knowledge and tactical nose? I mean FFS mate everyone thinks they know better the manager but in the REAL world if they did they would be Liverpool manager and Rafa would be on these forums speaking to people like you and me.

He is not above criticism far from it but one bad result which wasn't even a defeat and I'm not going to jump on your silly little band wagon and slag someone off who over the past couple of years has brought me so much pleasure.

I think what I'm trying to say is go **** yourself

[sid]

Because we trust our manager and support our team? It's easy to be a key board warrior when you know **** all about players energy levels and what's going on behind the scenes. Rafa is a highly successful manger one that is cavorted by most of the big clubs in Europe yet I am expected to agree with people who haven't got his knowledge and tactical nose? I mean FFS mate everyone thinks they know better the manager but in the REAL world if they did they would be Liverpool manager and Rafa would be on these forums speaking to people like you and me.

He is not above criticism far from it but one bad result which wasn't even a defeat and I'm not going to jump on your silly little band wagon and slag someone off who over the past couple of years has brought me so much pleasure.

I think what I'm trying to say is go **** yourself

Like i said - DRIVEL!!

[Pacman]

Like i said - DRIVEL!!

Ok Sid I'll bow down to your vast knowledge of the game.

Cock.

[sid]

Ok Sid I'll bow down to your vast knowledge of the game.

Cock.

OK mate lets put insults aside and we'll talk again in 4/5 years when we are still waiting for another league title.