Crouchie's off then...

[Pablo]

Also we shouldn't be looking at things as a selling club would - i.e. maximising the financial aspects of the deal but at the footballing ones alone - we are a big club and have to think like one.

Dave - I disagree on that point, big clubs have to maximise the financial aspects too. You have to know when is the the optimum time to let a player go. That might be when the manager thinks they have peaked and are on the slide so they cash in at just the right time so make a sensible profit. Wenger has done this very well in his career I think, he actually cited this as one of the reasons for letting Henry go. I think Rijkard is currently considering doing the same with Ronaldinho too.

Even big clubs need to turnover a profit on players from time to time. We do not have unlimited funds. If we can raise £12m for Crouch in January we may be wise to consider it as if he were to have a poor finish to the season we may fetch less than that for him in the summer. That £12m may well be the difference between us being able to sign a David Villa or a Kaka in the summer. All im saying is that the financial aspect is always a consideration no matter how huge the club.

[red g]

Dave - I disagree on that point, big clubs have to maximise the financial aspects too. You have to know when is the the optimum time to let a player go. That might be when the manager thinks they have peaked and are on the slide so they cash in at just the right time so make a sensible profit. Wenger has done this very well in his career I think, he actually cited this as one of the reasons for letting Henry go. I think Rijkard is currently considering doing the same with Ronaldinho too.

Even big clubs need to turnover a profit on players from time to time. We do not have unlimited funds. If we can raise £12m for Crouch in January we may be wise to consider it as if he were to have a poor finish to the season we may fetch less than that for him in the summer. That £12m may well be the difference between us being able to sign a David Villa or a Kaka in the summer. All im saying is that the financial aspect is always a consideration no matter how huge the club.

but then it may be the difference of winning the league or losing it, if we keep crouch, just in case of injuries and he scores a couple of goals we may just win the premiership

[dww]

Dave - I disagree on that point, big clubs have to maximise the financial aspects too. You have to know when is the the optimum time to let a player go. That might be when the manager thinks they have peaked and are on the slide so they cash in at just the right time so make a sensible profit. Wenger has done this very well in his career I think, he actually cited this as one of the reasons for letting Henry go. I think Rijkard is currently considering doing the same with Ronaldinho too.

Even big clubs need to turnover a profit on players from time to time. We do not have unlimited funds. If we can raise £12m for Crouch in January we may be wise to consider it as if he were to have a poor finish to the season we may fetch less than that for him in the summer. That £12m may well be the difference between us being able to sign a David Villa or a Kaka in the summer. All im saying is that the financial aspect is always a consideration no matter how huge the club.

I think we are sort of agreeing at heart. Basically what I mean is that football comes first - would we have got another striker who would have provided the same things to the squad as Crouch in the summer who would have given something different to the others. On top of that keeping Crouch should be the default position as he did well for us last year and we need some continuity in the squad season to season.

I didn't mean that we completely disregard finance - just that it has to be completely subserviant to the needs of the football team at the time. The point is that if the team/squad is better now with Crouch in it then we have a better chance of winning things which will pay for the difference in his value. The difference in value between January and the summer will be minimal in the bigger picture IMO unless someone is desperate for a striker come January. Obviously there comes a point when if someone offers daft money then you should always consider it.

If you are a big team the generation of money from player sales is usually only one factor in the purchase of a new player and it seems to me that all of the big clubs United and Arsenal included (who run the club as a business) can always find money for a top transfer each season irrelevant of who leaves - which is the model we have to move to. Selling Crouch should only impact on our purchasing ability if we want a squad player type replacement for him or elsewhere in the squad and that has to be balanced against the fact that Crouch is a very good player and I doubt we would have improved on what he brings to the team last summer - if he is unhappy (and hence less likely to perform optimally) then that all changes.

[dww]

but then it may be the difference of winning the league or losing it, if we keep crouch, just in case of injuries and he scores a couple of goals we may just win the premiership

I used a lot more words to say in essence the same thing.

[Shaggy]

To be fair it was his agent

Yes, that's exactly what I said...

[dww]

Yes, that's exactly what I said...

I hope you weren't expecting me to actually read your post

[The_weatherman]

He is, yes, but his agent isn't. He was bleating and whinging after about two weeks.

Here is part of Yossi's interview, really down to earth fella I think:


Benayoun, who sat out the previous week’s goalless draw with Birmingham because of the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur, said: “I will take this every game – coming on with 20 minutes to go and scoring, as long as we keep winning.

“I’m really happy to score but that doesn’t matter so long as we get the results.

“The most important thing, even if I’m only on for 10 minutes or so, is to prove I am good enough and contribute like that.

“If the manager says I can make a difference then I believe him but I’m here for a reason and that’s to provide moments like that.

“You have to be ready for everything here and I am. We have a great squad, full of talented players, and I would not tell anyone I should be playing – but I am ready if needed.”

[Pablo]

but then it may be the difference of winning the league or losing it, if we keep crouch, just in case of injuries and he scores a couple of goals we may just win the premiership

You have a valid point, however, I would argue if he was so off form that we would consider cashing in then I wouldnt think his contribution was sufficient enough to swing the title our way.

I didn't mean that we completely disregard finance - just that it has to be completely subserviant to the needs of the football team at the time. The point is that if the team/squad is better now with Crouch in it then we have a better chance of winning things which will pay for the difference in his value. The difference in value between January and the summer will be minimal in the bigger picture IMO unless someone is desperate for a striker come January. Obviously there comes a point when if someone offers daft money then you should always consider it.

As you said I think in that case we are in agreement, I just feel that sometimes we end up selling players a season or so late for a pittance, which is something we need to address. Houllier was bad at this, so far Rafa hasnt been though so it's not a major concern.

[red g]

Here is part of Yossi's interview, really down to earth fella I think:


Benayoun, who sat out the previous week’s goalless draw with Birmingham because of the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur, said: “I will take this every game – coming on with 20 minutes to go and scoring, as long as we keep winning.

“I’m really happy to score but that doesn’t matter so long as we get the results.

“The most important thing, even if I’m only on for 10 minutes or so, is to prove I am good enough and contribute like that.

“If the manager says I can make a difference then I believe him but I’m here for a reason and that’s to provide moments like that.

“You have to be ready for everything here and I am. We have a great squad, full of talented players, and I would not tell anyone I should be playing – but I am ready if needed.”

seems a top bloke, although never really sure about these sort of intereviews as if they were not happy they would not say so anyway, or you will just get dropped

[thesilverfoxlfc]

He can leave probably his price tag will be lower then what we would of got for him the summer gone.

Anything around 15 million should be taken.

[Shanks65]

More quotes from Rafa, re: Crouch in this Marseille preview article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article2577864.ece

[Lee]

More quotes from Rafa, re: Crouch in this Marseille preview article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle2577864.ece

Probable Marseille starting line-up;

Marseilles (probable; 4-4-2): S Mandanda – L Bonnart, G Givet, J Rodriguez, T Taiwo – L Cana, B Cheyrou, B Zenden, K Ziani – D Cissé, M Niang.

That's not our friend Bruno is it? Thought he went somewhere crapper

[Shaggy]

Probable Marseille starting line-up;

Marseilles (probable; 4-4-2): S Mandanda – L Bonnart, G Givet, J Rodriguez, T Taiwo – L Cana, B Cheyrou, B Zenden, K Ziani – D Cissé, M Niang.

That's not our friend Bruno is it? Thought he went somewhere crapper

Bruno's at Rennes - this is Benoit Cheyrou. His brother, I think.

[Morten_nogamst_Pedersen]

Peter Crouch warned to take chance

Oct 3 2007

by Ian Doyle, Liverpool Daily Post


Peter Crouch

RAFAEL BENITEZ will throw Peter Crouch back into Champions League action this evening with the warning there can be no excuses for the striker failing to deliver.

Crouch is in line for only his fifth start of the season when Liverpool entertain Marseille in their second Group A encounter at Anfield.

The England international has become increasingly frustrated by a lack of first-team opportunities this season, having fallen behind Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin in the pecking order up front.

It has prompted speculation Crouch could be heading for an exit in January, with the player stalling over the offer of a new contract.


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The 26-year-old, who was left out of the squad altogether for the weekend win at Wigan Athletic, last week suggested his form has been adversely affected by Benitez’s rotation policy.

But the Liverpool manager yesterday instead urged Crouch to stop moaning and start proving himself on the pitch.

“It’s clear that in a top side all the players need to prove character, quality and a very good mentality,” said Benitez. “When I talk about a very good mentality, I mean a winning mentality, trying to fight for your position, trying to fight in every game and show that you are good enough.

“We’re hopefully going to play 60 games so that’s enough for all the strikers to have their opportunity.

“If they say they are not ready, in a top side we don’t want excuses. We want players who are ready to play every game the best that they can.”

Benitez points to the example of Yossi Benayoun, who has endured similar spells on the sidelines but returned the squad in the past week to score at Reading in the Carling Cup and step off the bench to net the winner at Wigan on Saturday.

“Benayoun has shown in the last few games that if you work hard and are ready than you can play,” said the Spaniard. “The key to being in a top side is to be ready to come in. Crouch needs to understand this.

“The responsibility is on the player. It doesn’t just apply to Crouch, but to all the players. The players must understand this is the right way for winning trophies. For me, it’s better if a player plays 50% of the games working at 100%, and not 90% in all the games and for us not to win anything. You want all of the players at 100% in each game. They need to be ready in each game at this level.”

Benitez added: “Sometimes a player wants to show something but they can’t play because they’re not in the squad. That’s frustrating for the player, but that is football.

“You need to leave people out of the squad. The players must at times be left out of the squad, but they must then be ready for the next game. Crouch and all the players know it must be like this.

“But I think that Crouch is learning. I don’t have any problem with him. He was training really well today.”

Crouch was Liverpool’s leading goalscorer in the Champions League last season, and netted a memorable double against Galatasaray at this stage of the competition almost exactly a year ago.

The Turkish team were then managed by former Belgium international Erik Gerets, who earlier his month took over the reigns at Marseille from sacked coach Albert Emon.

And Benitez said: “Crouch is a player who score goals, he’s shown that against Galatasaray in the past. We’ll have another light training session tomorrow and then we’ll decide.

“I’ll decide which strikers to use, depending on the tactics, their physical condition and the opposition. My idea is to get the best out of every player. With Crouch it’s the same. If I can get the best out of Crouch it will be good for us, so we will try and do it.”

Benitez is still without Xabi Alonso, Daniel Agger and Harry Kewell tonight, and Jermaine Pennant is suspended following his sending-off in Porto.

Along with Crouch, Israeli midfielder Benayoun and Steve Finnan are competing for a starting role.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=peter-crouch-warned-to-take-chance%26method=full%26objectid=19886997%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

[AFII]

If a player only plays around two games a month there is no way that he can be match fit when he gets a chance and that means that he can't be 100% when he gets a chance meaning a worse performance that he normally will do when he is match fit.

There is a difference between Crouch and Benayoun and that is that Benayoun either start the game or is on the bench in almost all the games. Crouch has been in the stands many times this season.