A bit of perspective please

[thesilverfoxlfc]

I'm worried it has to be said

[kurtangle01]

Fair enough. So we mightnt qualify, but I believe it to be a knee-jerk reaction.

We've got Besiktas home and away, we've got Porto at home and Marseille away.

You might think 'that's something that looks beyond us at the moment', but those games stretch out between now and ****ing December. Please, dont tell me you SERIOUSLY believe we will continue in the 'rich vein' we have (until now) right up to De-****ing-cember. I mean come on. Have you ever seen us, or Rafa, go on such a ****ing bad run, that it would stretch not over one month, or 2, but actually 3?!?!!??!?!

Of course you haven't and you wouldn't expect to. Because Rafa aint a thick ****er and he will know what will have gone wrong, how, and how to amend it. He always does. Especially in Europe.

I fully believe (and I can substantiate my claim due to historical Rafa evidence) that we will qualify.


BUT. Even if we didn't and we weren't in the whole thick of things, considering the past success we've had in Europe over the last 3 years, what could you realistically say to Rafa? '**** Off, we don't need **** ***** like you at the club?'


What if we had a manager who didn't rotate, who did exactly as people would want (on here)? Do you realistically think we'd win the league and the ****ing European Cup? Just by going what people demand?

I highly ****ing doubt it, seriously. It takes the piss most of the time (I'm not addressing you mate), how people believe that the flavour-of-the-month-footballing-opinion would have as much worth in X-years time as it would have now? It wouldn't, as it doesn't now. In my opinion, it's all just knee-jerk, Rafa's the man at the helm, he aint a ****ing idiot and he will get it right.

As he said a season ago 'Even I and my team (ie. his assistants etc.) are still learning, we are always learning'

Like Tomkins or Tomlins or what the fellas name is 'I'm not trying to controversial (like the press), I'm trying to look through the eyes of Rafa'.

That is what I also do and will always try to do, because there's enough bashers out there who don't.

However, I still believe you are one of the most reasonable posters on here kurt, mate

Nobody has said Rafa should **** off, have they? And I agree that nobody wants a manager who takes to much advice from outside influences however Rafas rotating has become such an obsession with him that I honestly believe that, at times like tonight, he tries to be to clever for his own good.

Tonights team selection was disjointed and as a result the performance was aswell. Rafa needs to have a long hard look at the way things have been going because on recent performances it was only a matter of time before we got caught out like tonight. All the win at Wigan did was paper over the cracks.

I agree that it's unlikely that we'll be playing so poorly come December but I don't expect things to just magically get better and by December it might be to late. We need to win all four matches now to ensure qualifiation,imho, and that seems that a tough task to me at the moment.

Stevie said after that Porto match that a similar performance wouldn't happen again....time to start taking his own advice I think.

[sean_lfc]

Nobody has said Rafa should **** off, have they? And I agree that nobody wants a manager who takes to much advice from outside influences however Rafas rotating has become such an obsession with him that I honestly believe that, at times like tonight, he tries to be to clever for his own good.

Tonights team selection was disjointed and as a result the performance was aswell. Rafa needs to have a long hard look at the way things have been going because on recent performances it was only a matter of time before we got caught out like tonight. All the win at Wigan did was paper over the cracks.

I agree that it's unlikely that we'll be playing so poorly come December but I don't expect things to just magically get better and by December it might be to late. We need to win all four matches now to ensure qualifiation,imho, and that seems that a tough task to me at the moment.

Stevie said after that Porto match that a similar performance wouldn't happen again....time to start taking his own advice I think.

Alright, fair enough.

What do you propose Rafa should do and what do you expect Rafa will do?

And what, if what you propose he should do, won't happen, would your opinion be of Rafa, should you not get what you expect him to do (considering that no one can ever predict Rafa - realistically)? And what do you expect will the majority of fans' opinion be, if Rafa doesn't follow their orders?

I mean, put it this way...if Rafa answered all these EST prayers, would you like to sit there, let him do as people say he should, and then - when it all goes wrong - tell him 'Well, Rafa, we ****ing told you so, didn't we?'

I mean, seriously, where does this whole discussion lead? It's nothing to do with you, or me, or my point of view, I think it has to do with debate in general (I'm getting a bit philosophical here), where does it lead us? Does it lead to one's own opinion of Rafa being skewed by one's own reasoning and wanting-to-be-right?

What do you think it is? If Rafa did EXACTLY as people on here have been screaming out for (ie. less rotation, getting the 'team' (ie. a first 11 and some fringery players) to gel), and THEN results not going our way, what do y0ou think the reaction would be then? Do you think people would say 'well, at least he ****ing listened to us, it didn't work out, but hey, at least he tried and we all got proven wrong?'

****ING NO. It wouldn't be like that, fickle fans (I am NOT including you, seriously) would find another angle to have a go. People ALWAYS want to have a go when they don't get what they want, call it perfectionism (I know someone who is like that...), call it 'wanting the best for the team', call it pure and utter bull****. It won't change. Whatever the circumstances, opinions won't change.

So - for the sake of one's own good self - keeping a level head, not letting (bad) results ruin own's own life (which might involve a job, a family, kids to look out for) might just be a better answer to Liverpool's problems (At the end...of a storm...there is a golden sky...) than constant, minute bickering.

However, I fully appreciate people's need to do exactly that. Because, quite frankly, I don't expect and would never expect, anyone to be as light-hearted about something they care THAT much about than me. Because at the end of the day, my family's health and my own are the only thing that's REALLY important to me (and would you believe it or not, for the first time since Christmas, I got a text off my dad (the first time he's EVER sent me a football related text (or any text, for that matter) after tonight's result saying 'Bollox!...Ray' and he's a ****ing Spurs supporter!).

So, for me, all is not lost. Far from it, the season is still as ripe as a jailbait's pussy [Quagmire] AWWWRIIIIGH' [/Quagmire] and I'm going to take it all in before saying this that and the other.

Or something.


(I fully appreciate no one having the same opinion as me )

[sean_lfc]

I will - in most circumstances due to previous encounters - agree with Nicey. He is a glass half full person, an admirable trait, we've just come to expect too much of the Reds and people now - as the bar has been raised considerably - won't take failure as an answer - AT ALL.

So Mister B...I salute and agree with you

[Revo]

everything will be back to normal tomogs when the blue ****e finish their little run in europe. no doubts about a liverpool team playing well picking up 12 from the last 4 games but ffs lads lets see some hunger and lets start to really get after it.

[AFII]

What Rafa should do is what most people do in a crisis. They go back to basics and play it simple and take it from there.

Use players that you know will do a good solid job and work their socks off for the team.

[kurtangle01]

everything will be back to normal tomogs when the blue ****e finish their little run in europe. no doubts about a liverpool team playing well picking up 12 from the last 4 games but ffs lads lets see some hunger and lets start to really get after it.

The thing is, revo, the hunger that was shown by the team after we went a goal down was excellent and we put Marseille under alot of pressure and had our best spell of the match. Why did we wait until that point though? Why didn't we start the match with the same desire and drive? If we had played at the start like we played at the end we would have won tonight, imho. It was a case of to little to late.

[sean_lfc]

The thing is, revo, the hunger that was shown by the team after we went a goal down was excellent and we put Marseille under alot of pressure and had our best spell of the match. Why did we wait until that point though? Why didn't we start the match with the same desire and drive? If we had played at the start like we played at the end we would have won tonight, imho. It was a case of to little to late.

Thing is, it's always easy to say 'woulda shoulda coulda', but the fact of the matter is, we didn't, and ****s knows why we didn't. But sometimes I just think that's part and parcel of every-day life, even if it's as 'high-profile' as this one, the universe just sometimes ain't right. Nothing we can do about it.

I fully agree with revo, just ****ing get stuck in, sort it out, move on, it's always more difficult to understand the situation when you're not actually on the pitch (and **** me I wouldn't blame anyone for not being so!).

By the way, should I polish off this half bottle of Jim Beam or not, I'm in a serious dilemma here...I don't really fancy it, and there are some Carlsberg around (albeit not me own), but I just feel it's a duty I have to uphold after such an abysmal night

[JCase]

Or it could be the start of a horrible October

Hopefully the players will pull thier fingers out and get fired up.

[Dhav]

I definitely think we've needed a boot up the arse to shake us up a bit and get us into gear, and hopefully this is it, the game that can kick start our season.

[cobain]

Or it could be the start of a horrible October

Hopefully the players will pull thier fingers out and get fired.

[cobain]

The thing is, revo, the hunger that was shown by the team after we went a goal down was excellent and we put Marseille under alot of pressure and had our best spell of the match. Why did we wait until that point though? Why didn't we start the match with the same desire and drive? If we had played at the start like we played at the end we would have won tonight, imho. It was a case of to little to late.

I agree. But it seems that it's always like that with Liverpool. During the match, I said to a mate that we need to concede a goal for a proper footie! This turned out to be true, but it was little too late.

I wish Marseille would have scored earlier

[Revo]

The thing is, revo, the hunger that was shown by the team after we went a goal down was excellent and we put Marseille under alot of pressure and had our best spell of the match. Why did we wait until that point though? Why didn't we start the match with the same desire and drive? If we had played at the start like we played at the end we would have won tonight, imho. It was a case of to little to late.

a last minute equaliser today would have glossed over how poorly we are really playing. take nothing away from marseille they came looking for points and were fully rewarded for their ambition. the title of this thread says "one bad game" but lets be honest, its a stretch of bad games and its real ugly too. im gonna go out on a limb here and in my OPINION i think rafa has lost some of the dressing room. we just dont seem to have that togetherness or seem to be as cohesive as we did against chelsea. In my OPINION i sense a whole lot of frustration from some of the senior players with regards to rotation. like every other job, people want to know where they stand and want to be performing on a regular basis. dont want to be critical of the lad but leto is nowhere near ready for champions league football and i bet you any money the players know that and it would only be human nature to have some dissent about that selection.
id love to know the mood of the training ground these days, who is the liason between the manager now that paco has gone. someone mentioned the body language of peter crouch last week, but in fairness you can see it in most of the players. no one seems to want to stand the **** up and be counted. in fact, we look like the team that sacked mourhinio and are ****ing moping about on the pitch feeling sorry for ourselves.
i hope spurs feel the backlash of such an embarrasing performance not only tonight but in recent games. the manager and the players owe it to themselves, they also owe it to the fans who walk through ****ing walls to follow this team and they need to show us the pride that comes along with wearing this ****ing great shirt of ours.

[MARTINOZ]

The team played rubbish , but again all that could be heard in Anfield were the opposition fans . What the hell is going on ?

[sean_lfc]

a last minute equaliser today would have glossed over how poorly we are really playing. take nothing away from marseille they came looking for points and were fully rewarded for their ambition. the title of this thread says "one bad game" but lets be honest, its a stretch of bad games and its real ugly too. im gonna go out on a limb here and in my OPINION i think rafa has lost some of the dressing room. we just dont seem to have that togetherness or seem to be as cohesive as we did against chelsea. In my OPINION i sense a whole lot of frustration from some of the senior players with regards to rotation. like every other job, people want to know where they stand and want to be performing on a regular basis. dont want to be critical of the lad but leto is nowhere near ready for champions league football and i bet you any money the players know that and it would only be human nature to have some dissent about that selection.
id love to know the mood of the training ground these days, who is the liason between the manager now that paco has gone. someone mentioned the body language of peter crouch last week, but in fairness you can see it in most of the players. no one seems to want to stand the **** up and be counted. in fact, we look like the team that sacked mourhinio and are ****ing moping about on the pitch feeling sorry for ourselves.
i hope spurs feel the backlash of such an embarrasing performance not only tonight but in recent games. the manager and the players owe it to themselves, they also owe it to the fans who walk through ****ing walls to follow this team and they need to show us the pride that comes along with wearing this ****ing great shirt of ours.

Aw man, you come out with some real ****ing gems revo