Will the real SG please stand up?

[The Preacher]

I agree BUT Xabi needs to be the cornerstone of our team, not SG. SG needs to be treated in the same way as pennant, only chosen when the game suits his style of play. If we need to 'control from midfield' then he shouldn't be playing as he has demonstrated he can't run the game by himself.

I dont agree with you speedy. Gerrard should be the no.1 central attacking midfielder that we have. Alonso is a great player and we all appreciate his talents, but Gerrard is another level up from Alonso. When Xabi plays we seem to lack the drive and a genuine goal threat from centre midfield which Gerrard gives us.

Nobody in the world can dictate a game like alonso but you have to do something with the ball. We dont have world class wingers that can really penetrate the opposite defence and a big part of alonso's game is to get the ball out wide to our wide players.

If our wide players were far more effective like rufete and vicente of valencia in rafa's time then it would suit his game far more.

Sissoko is another type of player altogether. He was bought solely to win the ball further up the field so that Liverpool could launch their counter attacks much nearer the opposition's goal. His game is not about passing and touch play - he is a ball winner plain and simple.

[CAD]

Talking about selling Gerrard is taking this thing too far. Let's stay with slagging Rafa. Gerrard is off limits

[El Jefecito]

I dont agree with you speedy. Gerrard should be the no.1 central attacking midfielder that we have. Alonso is a great player and we all appreciate his talents, but Gerrard is another level up from Alonso. When Xabi plays we seem to lack the drive and a genuine goal threat from centre midfield which Gerrard gives us.

Nobody in the world can dictate a game like alonso but you have to do something with the ball. We dont have world class wingers that can really penetrate the opposite defence and a big part of alonso's game is to get the ball out wide to our wide players.

If our wide players were far more effective like rufete and vicente of valencia in rafa's time then it would suit his game far more.

Sissoko is another type of player altogether. He was bought solely to win the ball further up the field so that Liverpool could launch their counter attacks much nearer the opposition's goal. His game is not about passing and touch play - he is a ball winner plain and simple.

I hear what you are saying BUT. Stevie cannot bring the rest of the team into play so you essentially have to hope he wins you the game. Xabi makes everyone play better, hence more chances for goals.

[The Preacher]

I hear what you are saying BUT. Stevie cannot bring the rest of the team into play so you essentially have to hope he wins you the game. Xabi makes everyone play better, hence more chances for goals.

what you say makes sense only if alonso was surrounded by better attacking players than pennant and babel. I also agree that alonso is the more selfless player of the two and plays for the team, but at the level that we play at you do expect more from alonso.

He can put a ball on a sixpence from 70 yards but he doesnt score enough goals or get involved with play at the edge of the opponents box. He is not a genuine goal threat from the middle of the park. If xabi could score 10 goals a season added to his skills then we would not be having this conversation. Gerrard WOULD play on the right.

I am not against alonso, in fact the total opposite. He is a fabulous footballer and the kind of player we need. Additionally, how many games has gerrard won for us over the years. He is a class act. He has been below par recently but all players go through dips in form. He will be back.

[dww]

I think there is something in what SpeedyG has said about Gerrard being an impact player and this being hard to integrate as a CM into the way Rafa plays at times. However I think that Gerrard has worked hard to improve the basics of his game in terms of the way he plays a role - however he is best at doing it partnered with Alonso - no matter how good people think Mascher is or how good in their head the SG-Mascher partnership is the balance is not quite there in reality IMO.

Part of the problem though is also that the attacking areas of the pitch other than Stevie are not working. His game has always been about moving the ball forward quickly and at the minute the movement and form of those ahead of him make this difficult. He is get to get the link with Torres he once had with Owen which meant if in doubt he knew where to put a ball everytime.

The problem with moving Gerrard to thr right is that last season he seemed to systematically try and unlearn everything he had added to his game to play that position the year before in a bit to become the player Rafa wanted in the middle.

I tend to think that a large part of the probelm has been of late that Gerrard came back from injury too early and that his mood has too much of an effect on those around him. Especially when other big characters around the dressing room like Pennant and Crouch have been out of the side or in poor form.

[dww]

Oh and while we are discussing the topic I really wish Gerrard would take a leaf out of Lampards shooting manual and when hitting a shot from the edge of teh area concentrate on putting it hard, low and on target. It is in everyway the percentage shot - people go on about how lucky Lampard is and how many times a goal goes in after deflections but the fact is if you put the ball ahrd low and on target like him you maximise the chances of the shot going in deflected or otherwise.

[hides after brief bid to become least popular man in the LFC forum]

[peekay]

He can put a ball on a sixpence from 70 yards but he doesnt score enough goals or get involved with play at the edge of the opponents box. He is not a genuine goal threat from the middle of the park. If xabi could score 10 goals a season added to his skills then we would not be having this conversation. Gerrard WOULD play on the right.

Play Mascher in the holding role. Allow Xabi to roam higher up the pitch. Xabi has the discipline to track back and help mascher out when we are getting over run. Xabi will score more than 10 goals. His technique is just too good to not to score goals when he is higher up the pitch.

Tell gerrard to go on his marauding runs starting from the right. Ask him to provide some cover for finnan when he is getting over run.

Gerrard is a fabulous player , a matchwinner has the technique and the ability to play the game at 200 mph.

Xabi has the ability to play the game between 20 to 150 mph, if that makes any sense.

I am not underestimating Stevie G, great player but you to remember that in Alonso we have a player who almost singlehandedly took Sociedad to the La liga when he was 20. They lost it in the last week. Free him a little bit and he will make over the what we lose by shackling stevie G a little bit.

[El Jefecito]

I think there is something in what SpeedyG has said about Gerrard being an impact player and this being hard to integrate as a CM into the way Rafa plays at times. However I think that Gerrard has worked hard to improve the basics of his game in terms of the way he plays a role - however he is best at doing it partnered with Alonso - no matter how good people think Mascher is or how good in their head the SG-Mascher partnership is the balance is not quite there in reality IMO.

Part of the problem though is also that the attacking areas of the pitch other than Stevie are not working. His game has always been about moving the ball forward quickly and at the minute the movement and form of those ahead of him make this difficult. He is get to get the link with Torres he once had with Owen which meant if in doubt he knew where to put a ball everytime.

The problem with moving Gerrard to thr right is that last season he seemed to systematically try and unlearn everything he had added to his game to play that position the year before in a bit to become the player Rafa wanted in the middle.

I tend to think that a large part of the probelm has been of late that Gerrard came back from injury too early and that his mood has too much of an effect on those around him. Especially when other big characters around the dressing room like Pennant and Crouch have been out of the side or in poor form.

The reason the attack isn't working is because they are not getting quality service from the CM combinations we've put out. They haven't provided the platform for the others to play well.

[Howard_lfc]

The reason the attack isn't working is because they are not getting quality service from the CM combinations we've put out. They haven't provided the platform for the others to play well.

Agreed. Invariably if you win the battle in the centre of midfield you will win the game but of late we've lost as many battles as we've won.
One thing I've noticed is that SG doesn't get to the ball quick enough. Maybe his starting position is too deep or maybe his anticipation is a little slow, I don't know, but what I do know is that by the time he reaches the opposing CM, he's already lifted his head and decided on the pass.

[El Jefecito]

Agreed. Invariably if you win the battle in the centre of midfield you will win the game but of late we've lost as many battles as we've won.
One thing I've noticed is that SG doesn't get to the ball quick enough. Maybe his starting position is too deep or maybe his anticipation is a little slow, I don't know, but what I do know is that by the time he reaches the opposing CM, he's already lifted his head and decided on the pass.

only Xabi and ERl Jefecito seem capable of winning the 2nd ball!

[The Preacher]

Play Mascher in the holding role. Allow Xabi to roam higher up the pitch. Xabi has the discipline to track back and help mascher out when we are getting over run. Xabi will score more than 10 goals. His technique is just too good to not to score goals when he is higher up the pitch.

Tell gerrard to go on his marauding runs starting from the right. Ask him to provide some cover for finnan when he is getting over run.

Gerrard is a fabulous player , a matchwinner has the technique and the ability to play the game at 200 mph.

Xabi has the ability to play the game between 20 to 150 mph, if that makes any sense.

I am not underestimating Stevie G, great player but you to remember that in Alonso we have a player who almost singlehandedly took Sociedad to the La liga when he was 20. They lost it in the last week. Free him a little bit and he will make over the what we lose by shackling stevie G a little bit.

I do agree in that Alonso can do more but in 3 seasons he hasnt proven to be a goal scorer for us. He struggles to beat a man and get a shot off from the middle. We can draw comparisons with Jan Molby in that he too was a fantasic passer of the ball but asking him to be the attacking midfielder in a side lacking creative wide players will not deliver the results. Its ok when you've got john barnes and ray houghton on the flanks but we dont have a digger or a wide player who can score as many as houghton did.

I dont think Alonso would have the same impact from the middle that gerrard does. The other issue with Alonso is that he lacks a yard of pace from the middle and perhaps this is something that hampers him getting forward with the fast counter-attacks. He's not slow but he's not even lampard pace let alone gerrard.

But he is a fantastic player. In the home games against lesser teams you could play both together but in the games against the top sides alonso would have to make way for mascherano.

[tomasjj]

[QUOTE=The Preacher;713582]I do agree in that Alonso can do more but in 3 seasons he hasnt proven to be a goal scorer for us. He struggles to beat a man and get a shot off from the middle. We can draw comparisons with Jan Molby in that he too was a fantasic passer of the ball but asking him to be the attacking midfielder in a side lacking creative wide players will not deliver the results. Its ok when you've got john barnes and ray houghton on the flanks but we dont have a digger or a wide player who can score as many as houghton did.

I dont think Alonso would have the same impact from the middle that gerrard does. The other issue with Alonso is that he lacks a yard of pace from the middle and perhaps this is something that hampers him getting forward with the fast counter-attacks. He's not slow but he's not even lampard pace let alone gerrard.

But he is a fantastic player. In the home games against lesser teams you could play both together but in the games against the top sides alonso would have to make way for mascherano.[/QUOTE]

And yet, except Chelsea at home in the CL, Alonso always starts the important games.